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[godisawesome]

Austin and Rock lost a lot. The WWE title was hotspot often during the attitude era.

The thing is if you can get multiple dudes to the top tier, than they can afford to take losses (especially against each other) on big stages, and keep coming. Attitude Era Rock and Austin were two generational talent who managed to have a feud that involved plenty of “wars” won and lost by each guy. And occasionally, someone like Mick Foley or HHH could get in on that action, get a win or at least a good showing against them, and make the upper-their feel even bigger.

And I think once the older fans got a taste of that, they wanted that back. Punk vs Cena looked to them like a chance for two stars who could feud on and off, and Styles managed to secure his WWE legacy by getting that status for a short time with Cena. I’d argue the issue with Brock is that he’s the perfect guy to have as *one* part of a multi-man top tier... but he kept on being booked for various reasons as just unassailable, and the intended recipient of his monster run was Reigns, and they just never pulled it off quite right.

Part of the attraction and dissatisfaction with the Shield was that I think everyone could tell the group could have been a three-way rivalry for the top tier... and *was* for a very brief time... but WWE managed to botch it largely through the storylines they wanted to tell instead of the ones the wrestlers and characters would tell.

[master of read]

They have plenty to complain about. They are a tag team in a company that doesn't give a **** about tag team wrestling. It's hard to succeed at the thing your company sees no value in. It's not being given the belts improve their standing with the company whatsoever.

dash and dawson were booked strong when they came up to the main roster and took it to the new day. after that, it was all down hill. even when they won the belt, they were treated either as joke or weren't treated like the tag team masters they are. but when they went back to NXT and had a match with reDragon, they showed that they are still tag masters and it was just the main roster booking fucking them up.

I've come around on Braun vs Bray, because if the pattern holds, it'll mean Braun goes back to being a heel

it's a lose/lose situation. if bray wins, then Braun is a transitional champion who's win over Goldberg didn't matter in the long run, which makes the fiend's brutal at SSS look even worse. if Braun wins, the fiend as a character is done. you can't go from jobbing out to a old man who botched his finisher to beating a part timer in a match that wasn't really a match to getting beaten by Braun. the E booked themselves into a corner and had no one to blame but themselves.

Becky being organically over and being treated as an afterthought to start. Charlotte's booking is more like Reign of Terror Triple H. But at least Hunter wasn't pushed to the top literally as soon as he came to WWF, he worked his way up, and never leave ever. Someone on reddit posted a chart of women with the most PPV title matches, and most PPV wins, and surprise surprise Charlotte is way out ahead of ANYONE in WWE history, by a lot. This is despite her never being anywhere close to the most popular at any point.

Charlotte represents the kind of "chosen one"philosophy that WWE has that fans are rebelling against these days.

Anyway, So what now for Asuka and Kairi I wonder? It feels like there's nowhere left for them to go.

As much as I'd not like to see another women's team split, they're both too good to just be stuck in limbo. Let them both do single's stuff I think.

sadly, with the state of the women's division on raw and SD, splitting them up wouldn't really help anyone. kairi and Asuka really haven't been booked strong as singles wrestlers.

It's not a Charlotte thing to me.

I hate wrestlers who have to be fed. Never been a fan of Goldberg and so forth.

Charlotte doesn't need to be fed. She doesn't have those limitations.

When I see a heel beat a guy clean in the ring via submission, I have no desire to see that match again. Feud is over.

A submission carries a certain weight to it that a so simple pin doesn't. You quit. You submitted. You Tapped Out!!!

Joes chokehold sometimes protects people because they don't quit they just pass out. It's almost a disqualification.

Charlotte doesn't need to be built. She is the top of the card. She should be.

But this is the fight game, you have to make people believe that she can be beat. Mike Tyson didn't get a lot of rematches with guys he beat in the first round.

To me the best thing for Charlotte is to be in a women's division where she lose to and beat the best. Like male wrestlers enjoy. She needs to be in a division, where it's not only the championship that makes you relevant.

if you wanna look at how it's done, look at jay white. dude is a very talented wrestler but he's a utter scum bag who always cheats. he's shown he can win clean but still cheats and thus he is one of the most hated heels in NJPW.

you can be a skilled heel wrestler and still cheat your ass off to get heat.

[Jcogginsa]

dash and dawson were booked strong when they came up to the main roster and took it to the new day. after that, it was all down hill. even when they won the belt, they were treated either as joke or weren't treated like the tag team masters they are. but when they went back to NXT and had a match with reDragon, they showed that they are still tag masters and it was just the main roster booking fucking them up.



it's a lose/lose situation. if bray wins, then Braun is a transitional champion who's win over Goldberg didn't matter in the long run, which makes the fiend's brutal at SSS look even worse. if Braun wins, the fiend as a character is done. you can't go from jobbing out to a old man who botched his finisher to beating a part timer in a match that wasn't really a match to getting beaten by Braun. the E booked themselves into a corner and had no one to blame but themselves.
.

I disagree. The Fiend has thus far been involved in two notoriously awful booking decisions, and it hasn't hurt him at all. And if the pattern holds, Bray's feud with Braun will likely rewaken Braun's monster push, and that's gonna do a lot to soften the blow.

I want Braun vs Bray to be another Pretaped match and have it end with Braun pinning Bray underneath an overturned semi or something

[master of read]

I disagree. The Fiend has thus far been involved in two notoriously awful booking decisions, and it hasn't hurt him at all. And if the pattern holds, Bray's feud with Braun will likely rewaken Braun's monster push, and that's gonna do a lot to soften the blow.

I want Braun vs Bray to be another Pretaped match and have it end with Braun pinning Bray underneath an overturned semi or something

he jobbed out to a 50+ year old man who botched his finisher and used his stroke to squash him at the last minute. it will take more than beating his former goon who hasn't been booked like a monster in years to build him back up. hard to be scary when you lose to oldberg.

and even if he wins, he'll just drop the belt to roman when he comes back because that was the original plan.

[BigLbo]

I disagree. The Fiend has thus far been involved in two notoriously awful booking decisions, and it hasn't hurt him at all. And if the pattern holds, Bray's feud with Braun will likely rewaken Braun's monster push, and that's gonna do a lot to soften the blow.

I want Braun vs Bray to be another Pretaped match and have it end with Braun pinning Bray underneath an overturned semi or something

I disagree that it didn’t hurt him at all, it really fukt off his momentum.

If people go back and look cena lost clean more than you think, especially for the top guy in the company.
In roughly a 1 year span(April 07-may 08) super cena lost clean to hbk, great Khali, Orton 2x and JBL.

As the top babyface in the company he lost clean more often than Charlotte does as a heel

[titanfan]

he jobbed out to a 50+ year old man who botched his finisher and used his stroke to squash him at the last minute. it will take more than beating his former goon who hasn't been booked like a monster in years to build him back up. hard to be scary when you lose to oldberg.

That and he was involved in a super cartoony match at one of the most watched Wrestlemania of all times that seemed catered to his die hard fan base but that's it. There's very little credibility as a top heel right now.

You really don't want him feuding with Braun--right now both guys are ones you want to protect.

[master of read]

I disagree that it didn’t hurt him at all, it really fukt off his momentum.

If people go back and look cena lost clean more than you think, especially for the top guy in the company.
In roughly a 1 year span(April 07-may 08) super cena lost clean to hbk, great Khali, Orton 2x and JBL.

As the top babyface in the company he lost clean more often than Charlotte does as a heel

he also lost to KO, DB, moxley, AJ, and a few others. the last few years have had cena counting the lights more than ever. certainly makes up for that nexus crap all those years ago.

if he jobbed out to the fiend in a regular match, it might have helped get some of his momentum back but in that "match", naw. i enjoyed that for what it was but I wouldn't call it doing much for the fiend other than getting his "win" back.

[master of read]

That and he was involved in a super cartoony match at one of the most watched Wrestlemania of all times that seemed catered to his die hard fan base but that's it. There's very little credibility as a top heel right now.

You really don't want him feuding with Braun--right now both guys are ones you want to protect.

like I said, it's lose/lose and it's the E's fault.

[Baseman]

There's honestly not a whole lot unusual about how Cena was handled. Bruno, Hogan, Warrior, Austin, Undertaker, Rock ... they almost never lost. Thats sort of what it means to be a top babyface. It's what separates a Hogan from a Brutus Beefcake or a Austin from a Christian or a Cena from a Miz... they are dominant.

If people don't like it then they don't like it, but let's not pretend this is anything new. WWE has always booked their top babyfaces this way.

I think its pretty clear the fans of today want different things from the fans of Hogans time.Possibly due to people being more wise to the behind the scenes stuff.Alot of people view Hogan as a prima donna looking back.

What worked in the 80s,90s or hell even the attitiude era may not fly today.

It may have worked better if Cena wasnt in the spot light so much.But alas.

[Jcogginsa]

That and he was involved in a super cartoony match at one of the most watched Wrestlemania of all times that seemed catered to his die hard fan base but that's it. There's very little credibility as a top heel right now.

You really don't want him feuding with Braun--right now both guys are ones you want to protect.

The Firefly Funhouse Match was the best thing at Mania, and it easily outshined whatever damage he got from the Oldberg match.

That's why the Fiend has managed to survive massive booking failures without missing a step. Every every time he takes a loss, all it takes is giving him promo time and the damage is done.

[master of read]

The Firefly Funhouse Match was the best thing at Mania, and it easily outshined whatever damage he got from the Oldberg match.

That's why the Fiend has managed to survive massive booking failures without missing a step. Every every time he takes a loss, all it takes is giving him promo time and the damage is done.

but sadly, it wasn't what he needed. honestly, while the firefly fun house segment was fun and interesting and all, it still wasn't a proper match and thus, he didn't get a proper win.

personally speaking, and a lot of people have the same mind set, i'd go back to the bone yard match before the fire fly fun house segment. hell, I've seen the boneyard match 4 times this last week and I still love it.

and normally a promo would work but both of his losses came from very shitty matches with very shitty endings. one bad match is survivable. 2? that's too much.

[jetengine]

but sadly, it wasn't what he needed. honestly, while the firefly fun house segment was fun and interesting and all, it still wasn't a proper match and thus, he didn't get a proper win.

personally speaking, and a lot of people have the same mind set, i'd go back to the bone yard match before the fire fly fun house segment. hell, I've seen the boneyard match 4 times this last week and I still love it.

and normally a promo would work but both of his losses came from very shitty matches with very shitty endings. one bad match is survivable. 2? that's too much.

See I dont get this mindset. Whilst I get the "wrestling is combat theater" part the real draw imo has to be the drama and storytelling otherwise its just two dudes fake slapping each other with varying degrees of success on how well they sell their injuries.

Boneyard was decent but it boiled down to "old man beating on young man cause young man said old man was too damn old" which is....true considering what the fans actually know these days. Hell the tape was shot in a certain way BECAUSE Taker is too damn old, other then the actual cult ****, the fight on top of the house and the teleport it was fairly mundane.

Meanwhile Firefly was a pychadelic trip through Cenas history and WWE in general to a degree. This was theater and them slapping each other wouldn't have added anything to it. Or to put it simpler, if your going to try and sell these guys as Superhuman monsters actually do it.

[master of read]

See I dont get this mindset. Whilst I get the "wrestling is combat theater" part the real draw imo has to be the drama and storytelling otherwise its just two dudes fake slapping each other with varying degrees of success on how well they sell their injuries.

Boneyard was decent but it boiled down to "old man beating on young man cause young man said old man was too damn old" which is....true considering what the fans actually know these days. Hell the tape was shot in a certain way BECAUSE Taker is too damn old, other then the actual cult ****, the fight on top of the house and the teleport it was fairly mundane.

Meanwhile Firefly was a pychadelic trip through Cenas history and WWE in general to a degree. This was theater and them slapping each other wouldn't have added anything to it. Or to put it simpler, if your going to try and sell these guys as Superhuman monsters actually do it.

then I don't know what to tell you if you think that, since they are just "fake slapping" each other.

[jetengine]

then I don't know what to tell you if you think that, since they are just "fake slapping" each other.

What I'm saying is without the story its nothing beyond interest in their athletecism which isnt a big enough deal to keep people there.

So many dudes fail because their "El generico" with basic stories and weak gimmicks

[master of read]

What I'm saying is without the story its nothing beyond interest in their athletecism which isnt a big enough deal to keep people there.

So many dudes fail because their "El generico" with basic stories and weak gimmicks

if that's what you think, that's what you think.