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[Malvolio]

1: the last full match cena had was with taker and it was a utter squash. like titanfan said above, to modern audiences, cena has only been losing these days.

2: there were only two wrestling moves in the whole segment: a sister Abigail and a mandible claw. contray to what Goldberg would like you to believe, two moves do not a match makes. even when compared to other cinematic matches, it's by far the weakest of the bunch.

3: by that logic, the fiend should've never had the UT or even been in contention for it. so he chose to not lose to db, seth and Finn but just decided he wanted to lose to Goldberg with no real explanation on why he decided to do so?

Bary Wyatt's character is all about chaos. He doesn't need a reason for anything he does. One should not try to apply logic to any of his actions.

[master of read]

Yes, I damn well can say that he beat Cena, because they got into a fight, and Cena lost. It doesn't matter that 'It wasn't a match' because it made Bray look like an unbeatable demon from Hell.

I don't give a fuck that it wasn't a match. It made Bray look better than any match ever could make him look

a unbeatable monster from hell............who still lost to a old man. that's sticking with him.

[Jcogginsa]

a unbeatable monster from hell............who still lost to a old man. that's sticking with him.

No, it's not sticking with him. Same as Hell in a Cell didn't stick with him. He recovered from both without losing a step.

[master of read]

No, it's not sticking with him. Same as Hell in a Cell didn't stick with him. He recovered from both without losing a step.

how has he recovered from it? beating a part timer in a non match and then getting hotshoted into a title match against the guy who beat the guy he couldn't beat?

[Jcogginsa]

how has he recovered from it? beating a part timer in a non match and then getting hotshoted into a title match against the guy who beat the guy he couldn't beat?

Cena being a part timer doesn't change the fact that he is the modern day shorthand for "Dominant Wrestler". Plus, the match demonstrates a fuller extent of the Fiend's Kayfabe powers, making it clear that losing is just something that the Fiend chooses to do.

The fact that Bray's character has no hesitation in going after the guy that beat Goldberg reinforces that. It shows that Goldberg didn't beat the Fiend because he was stronger, he beat the Fiend because the Fiend didn't really care about him.

[master of read]

Cena being a part timer doesn't change the fact that he is the modern day shorthand for "Dominant Wrestler". Plus, the match demonstrates a fuller extent of the Fiend's Kayfabe powers, making it clear that losing is just something that the Fiend chooses to do.

The fact that Bray's character has no hesitation in going after the guy that beat Goldberg reinforces that. It shows that Goldberg didn't beat the Fiend because he was stronger, he beat the Fiend because the Fiend didn't really care about him.

so if he didn't care about losing to goldberg, then he didn't care about losing the belt? you can't say he's a agent of chaos and didn't care about winning or losing but have him chase after a belt. i know you are trying to look on the bright side of this with your theories and interpiations of the fiend's motivations. but in the end, this was all just bad booking as a result of one old man's selfish desire to keep his image intact, another man's unwillingness to wrestle said old man because he's concerned for his health and the E trying and failing to make sense of it all.

but regardless of how you try to spin it, and I commend you for trying, you have remember this: whoever wins is still gonna drop the belt to roman when he comes back. and it would be even worse for the fiend because that would make him a transitional champion and you don't wanna be a transitional champion.

[XPac]

how has he recovered from it? beating a part timer in a non match and then getting hotshoted into a title match against the guy who beat the guy he couldn't beat?

I wouldn't say Bray was hot shotted into a title match.

As the previous champ who never got a rematch, he's on the short list of logical number one contenders. It's no different than the Kabuki Warriors getting a shot on Smackdown. Even if there's no automatic rematch claus, it still makes sense.

[Jcogginsa]

so if he didn't care about losing to goldberg, then he didn't care about losing the belt? you can't say he's a agent of chaos and didn't care about winning or losing but have him chase after a belt. i know you are trying to look on the bright side of this with your theories and interpiations of the fiend's motivations. but in the end, this was all just bad booking as a result of one old man's selfish desire to keep his image intact, another man's unwillingness to wrestle said old man because he's concerned for his health and the E trying and failing to make sense of it all.

but regardless of how you try to spin it, and I commend you for trying, you have remember this: whoever wins is still gonna drop the belt to roman when he comes back. and it would be even worse for the fiend because that would make him a transitional champion and you don't wanna be a transitional champion.

1. The Belt is useful for him because it attracts victims, but he doesn't need it. It's just a tool in his psychological arsenal
2. At this rate, Roman's not gonna get back for Months.

[master of read]

1. The Belt is useful for him because it attracts victims, but he doesn't need it. It's just a tool in his psychological arsenal
2. At this rate, Roman's not gonna get back for Months.

if the belt don't matter to him, then he shouldn't be having it.

but at this point, you have stated your opinion. and I applaud you for trying to make sense of this shit booking.

but this is the E. it's not a matter of if they will fuck up the fiend again but when. and it's gonna be soon.

[HUTHAIFA]

I wouldn't say Bray was hot shotted into a title match.

As the previous champ who never got a rematch, he's on the short list of logical number one contenders. It's no different than the Kabuki Warriors getting a shot on Smackdown. Even if there's no automatic rematch claus, it still makes sense.

I agree. Bray "beat" the biggest name in the company at it's biggest event.So being in line for the title makes sense. It doesn't make sense for long term booking sense Braun needs the title. He needs it badly. If you want him to be a player for the long term, he needs about a 4-6 month reign. I would put him into programs with Sheamus, Kofi, Big E and Bryan. He needs to be the monster heel, so Roman can have big fight with him without turning Braun into a midcarder because of it. Hell, if I could Taker to do the honors for Braun, that would be great.

Braun needs to built and so does the title.

[HUTHAIFA]

if the belt don't matter to him, then he shouldn't be having it.

but at this point, you have stated your opinion. and I applaud you for trying to make sense of this shit booking.

but this is the E. it's not a matter of if they will fuck up the fiend again but when. and it's gonna be soon.

If the belt doesn't add anything to him, then he shouldn't have it . Fiend is bigger than the Universal title.

[XPac]

I agree. Bray "beat" the biggest name in the company at it's biggest event.So being in line for the title makes sense. It doesn't make sense for long term booking sense Braun needs the title. He needs it badly. If you want him to be a player for the long term, he needs about a 4-6 month reign. I would put him into programs with Sheamus, Kofi, Big E and Bryan. He needs to be the monster heel, so Roman can have big fight with him without turning Braun into a midcarder because of it. Hell, if I could Taker to do the honors for Braun, that would be great.

Braun needs to built and so does the title.

Though I'd personally it if they were to build up Bray over Braun, IF they do have designs on Braun being a top guy obviously now is the time to push him. Even if it was through sheer happenstance he did nonetheless walk out of WM with the Universal title.

We'll see how well Braun can carry a brand. I do think Bray will make it easy in his first feud at least. Bray can do the heavy lifting as far as building the feud... Braun just needs to show up. So he's in good hands for the moment.

[master of read]

If the belt doesn't add anything to him, then he shouldn't have it . Fiend is bigger than the Universal title.

yup.

the only other time in wrestling I can remember where a wrestler didn't care about the belt and it actually working was when naito became IWGP champion. he didn't like being champ and hated what the belt represented so he utterly disrespected the belt: he kicked along the ground as opposed to carrying it, threw it around like a piece of trash, spat on it and even smashed it against walls and stairs. it got to the point where people wanted someone to rescue the belt from naito, which is when tana took it off him and they had to spend thousands of dollar getting it repaired.

[HUTHAIFA]

Though I'd personally it if they were to build up Bray over Braun, IF they do have designs on Braun being a top guy obviously now is the time to push him. Even if it was through sheer happenstance he did nonetheless walk out of WM with the Universal title.

We'll see how well Braun can carry a brand. I do think Bray will make it easy in his first feud at least. Bray can do the heavy lifting as far as building the feud... Braun just needs to show up. So he's in good hands for the moment.

I think Braun is lucky because this is a studio show right now, so you can do all the stunts you did with him that got him over with Reigns. He can have a gimmick match with a dusty finish against the Fiend without fear off booes.

Now the WWE can just worry about presentation and not crowd reaction.

[XPac]

I think Braun is lucky because this is a studio show right now, so you can do all the stunts you did with him that got him over with Reigns. He can have a gimmick match with a dusty finish against the Fiend without fear off booes.

Now the WWE can just worry about presentation and not crowd reaction.

Good point about the stunts. One of the keys to Braun really getting over arguably were his feats of strength, and the edited empty area show makes that much easier. I think the present format works for both Braun and Bray now that you mention it. So they're probably the right guys to focus on at the time.

A Braun/Bray fight almost gives me flashbacks to Freddy vs Jason back in the day. Freddy had all the mind games and all the tricks but Jason just kept on coming.