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[CliffHanger2]

If the idea is that wrestlers look bad if they lose to submission moves (I notion I don't personally agree with), then shouldn't we get rid of submission moves so that no one looks bad?

Again, I can sort of buy the logic for a top babyface like John Cena... but I don't think everyone needs to be booked like Cena. Especially the heels.

Wrestlers do look bad when they submit that's why you barely see the top guys do it if ever. Even the heels and nobody submits 2 nights in a row. That's definitely making a wrestler look very weak on top of not being able to hold on to championship and losing pretty much every feud. It's horrible booking and storytelling for a wrestler like Banks who was light years ahead when she got on the roster. And is now reduced to joke title runs.

[XPac]

Wrestlers do look bad when they submit that's why you barely see the top guys do it if ever. Even the heels and nobody submits 2 nights in a row. That's definitely making a wrestler look very weak on top of not being able to hold on to championship and losing pretty much every feud. It's horrible booking and storytelling for a wrestler like Banks who was light years ahead when she got on the roster. And is now reduced to joke title runs.

If that's true (again, a notion I don't entirely agree with), then they should get rid of submission moves. No point in having them if people complain wrestlers look bad when they lose that way.

[titanfan]

If that's true (again, a notion I don't entirely agree with), then they should get rid of submission moves. No point in having them if people complain wrestlers look bad when they lose that way.

I think that it was true in the 90's, that wrestlers (especially faces) didn't submit, period. But with the advent of UFC, it's changed the way we look at submission moves. There's nothing bad about tapping especially when they are going to break your arm if you don't--and then you can't wrestle at all. If anything it looks bad on the person applying the submission (in the case of the Asuka Lock) that she hasn't dislocated anyone's elbow after holding it in that long. (One reason why I don't think it should be a wrestling finisher unless everyone is ready to tap out right away) The pain isn't necessarily the problem with that move, it's that you're going to get your arm snapped. When a lady in UFC didn't tap out right away, Ronda Rousey didn't hesitate to dislocate it.

[CliffHanger2]

If that's true (again, a notion I don't entirely agree with), then they should get rid of submission moves. No point in having them if people complain wrestlers look bad when they lose that way.

Losing 2 nights in a row that way is the operative theme here. Something you choose to keep ignoring lol. That's the practice they should get rid of if they want to keep wrestlers looking credible. Even though I've only seen that happen once.

[Kal-El Summers]

Egads, the story of the match wasn't Sasha tapping twice in two days, it's Bayley pussing out on doing for Sasha what she did for Bayley to retain her title. Focusing on Sasha tapping is stupid because nobody is going to remember it, only the match showing the beginnings of the cracks in the foundation of the Golden Role Models.

[XPac]

Losing 2 nights in a row that way is the operative theme here. Something you choose to keep ignoring lol. That's the practice they should get rid of if they want to keep wrestlers looking credible. Even though I've only seen that happen once.

Asuka has a submission move, so yeah... odds are she's going to beat with by submission. If submission victories somehow make wrestlers look bad, then they should get rid of them. Though honestly I don't think it's as much of an issue as you do. Maybe if enough people complain about submission moves, WWE will ban them. But I think the advent of MMA makes it an acceptable enough thing, UNLESS you're a top babyface. Under those circumstances you can pass out.

[Immortal Weapon]

Egads, the story of the match wasn't Sasha tapping twice in two days, it's Bayley pussing out on doing for Sasha what she did for Bayley to retain her title. Focusing on Sasha tapping is stupid because nobody is going to remember it, only the match showing the beginnings of the cracks in the foundation of the Golden Role Models.

This. Sasha losses is building to the break up with Bayley.

[XPac]

This. Sasha losses is building to the break up with Bayley.

I'm pleasantly surprised they were taking their time with this.

Maybe it's because there are no crowds and they're just waiting to do the turn in front of a live audience, but they are showing a great deal of patience with this angle. I don't recall the last WWE angle which was this much of a slow burn.

I just hope when they do finally turn and Sasha does finally beat Bayley for the Smackdown title, they won't have Bayley win it back the next day.

[Malvolio]

Asuka has a submission move, so yeah... odds are she's going to beat with by submission. If submission victories somehow make wrestlers look bad, then they should get rid of them. Though honestly I don't think it's as much of an issue as you do. Maybe if enough people complain about submission moves, WWE will ban them. But I think the advent of MMA makes it an acceptable enough thing, UNLESS you're a top babyface. Under those circumstances you can pass out.

Yeah. When you have the heel announcer continually making the argument that it's a good idea to tap out rather than risk injury, it totally makes sense for a heel to tap out when their opponent is someone who has a submission finisher. Maybe not when it's a title match, but if wins and losses don't matter, why not tap out if continuing could give you (kayfabe) an injury?

[CliffHanger2]

Egads, the story of the match wasn't Sasha tapping twice in two days, it's Bayley pussing out on doing for Sasha what she did for Bayley to retain her title. Focusing on Sasha tapping is stupid because nobody is going to remember it, only the match showing the beginnings of the cracks in the foundation of the Golden Role Models.

Pretty sure her fans will remember it. What's stupid is thinking ppl will be invested in a story where characters are made to look weak. And being tapped out 2 nights in a row makes a wrestler look weak.

[Kal-El Summers]

Pretty sure her fans will remember it. What's stupid is thinking ppl will be invested in a story where characters are made to look weak. And being tapped out 2 nights in a row makes a wrestler look weak.

Being perfectly frank, most of her fans are overly obsessive about **** that doesn't matter. Sasha isn't being made to look weak, she's a goddamn heel that's finally getting her comeuppance from someone she's been feuding with for the better part of two months along with seeing that her supposed BFF isn't willing to help her to the extent that Sasha helped her. She's not being booked like freakin' Naomi, there's a clear and concise story being told here.

[titanfan]

Being perfectly frank, most of her fans are overly obsessive about **** that doesn't matter. Sasha isn't being made to look weak, she's a goddamn heel that's finally getting her comeuppance from someone she's been feuding with for the better part of two months along with seeing that her supposed BFF isn't willing to help her to the extent that Sasha helped her. She's not being booked like freakin' Naomi, there's a clear and concise story being told here.

Also they are generally trying to get a little bit of sympathy. That's also one of the reasons they brought up that she can't defend her title.

[Punisher007]

They also brought it up during her feud with Alexa, and it didn't lead to anything for her there, and that was three years ago. I think fans just, don't have a lot of trust in WWE when it comes to Sasha because, well it's never paid off well before.

Anyway Dynamite:

The Good:

The tag gauntlet was a lot of fun.

Matt vs. Sammy was solid for the time that they had. And Matt still taking crazy table bumps.

The Mox/MJF segment was really entertaining as usual.

All the stuff with Page was great.

Brodie Lee still looks badass.

Anna Jay, putting her with the Dark Order was such a great move. She has a natural presence to her and she just looks great standing with them. In fact, besides Brodie, she's the member that most gives off "future star" vibes.

Taynara Conti, if they've signed her and if she joins DO, it's a really good idea imo. It takes advantage of her and Anna's surprisingly good chemistry in the tag tournament, it gives two still green women some shine without forcing them too hard too fast, and it sets up potential stories down the road.

The Bad:

The Women's match, wasn't good. Reba's "she isn't a wrestler" schtick didn't help, Big Swole has good charisma, but is still a work in progress in-ring, and WOW have they squandered ALL of Penelope Ford's momentum after her match with Shida.

Commentary, I am more lenient on JR than many seem to be, but he was rough tonight. And while I usually love Jericho on Commentary, he overdid it a bit tonight imo.

[The True Detective]

They also brought it up during her feud with Alexa, and it didn't lead to anything for her there, and that was three years ago. I think fans just, don't have a lot of trust in WWE when it comes to Sasha because, well it's never paid off well before.

Anyway Dynamite:

The Good:

The tag gauntlet was a lot of fun.

Matt vs. Sammy was solid for the time that they had. And Matt still taking crazy table bumps.

The Mox/MJF segment was really entertaining as usual.

All the stuff with Page was great.

Brodie Lee still looks badass.

Anna Jay, putting her with the Dark Order was such a great move. She has a natural presence to her and she just looks great standing with them. In fact, besides Brodie, she's the member that most gives off "future star" vibes.

Taynara Conti, if they've signed her and if she joins DO, it's a really good idea imo. It takes advantage of her and Anna's surprisingly good chemistry in the tag tournament, it gives two still green women some shine without forcing them too hard too fast, and it sets up potential stories down the road.

The Bad:

The Women's match, wasn't good. Reba's "she isn't a wrestler" schtick didn't help, Big Swole has good charisma, but is still a work in progress in-ring, and WOW have they squandered ALL of Penelope Ford's momentum after her match with Shida.

Commentary, I am more lenient on JR than many seem to be, but he was rough tonight. And while I usually love Jericho on Commentary, he overdid it a bit tonight imo.

Glad I'm not the only one who found Jericho overbearing on commentary. I feel like he spends most of the time shouting and It's really distracting from what's going on in the ring. I sorely missed Tazz at the desk tonight. Tony Khan really needs to tell Jericho to tone it down a little on commentary, I know he's supposed to be a larger than life heel but I can't with all that shouting.

[marshal88]

with nxt main event a bit weak currently , wade barrett should wrestle instead of color commentator, straight away he'll be the big name there and face all the wrestlers he never faced before.