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[marshal88]

bliss finally showing up , are they still going with her as sister abigail , i assume she not turning up at summerslam was due to reigns surprise appearances

[XPac]

I'm somewhat surprised Roman went heel, since Smackdown seems to be lacking at top heel. Unless Braun is still a face or the Fiend is turning face.

That said, I can see him making a good heel. Heel turns are often a nice opportunity for a wrestler to show a bit more personality. That should be fun.

[Punisher007]

Sami is back, rocking the Fidel Castro look. Him, AJ, and Jeff all feuding over the IC title could be great.

So Gulak goes from having competitive matches with AJ, to getting squashed. You can tell DB isn't around to stick up for him right now.

No women's matches at all tonight.

Alexa's acting during this whole storyline has been fantastic, and it was great again tonight. And she has good reason to be angry at Nikki.

With how openly Bayley's being an a-hole right in front of Sasha, and the death glare Sasha shot her during her promo, if Sasha doesn't finally snap and turn on Bayley soon, she's going to start looking like a pushover.

Roman officially turning heel, and aligning with Heyman, was awesome.

[marshal88]

i assume that fiend will not lose so soon after he won the title. the fiend should retain for now while reigns can go beat up braun.

[XPac]

i assume that fiend will not lose so soon after he won the title. the fiend should retain for now while reigns can go beat up braun.

I definately agree Fiend should keep the belt... though I'll wager putting the title on Roman must be awefully tempting right now. Hopefully they can resist that temptation until at least Survivor Series.

[Riv86672]

Roman officially turning heel, and aligning with Heyman, was awesome.

Reigns basically won the managerial version of MiTB.
Only a very few have ever not benefitted from this situation.

That said, I can wait for him to win the title. The chase is always the best part.

[marshal88]

heyman didn't do much for cesaro , axel or ryback. reigns might benefit if it was him alone but if brock turns up again , who knows ....

[Username taken]

heyman didn't do much for cesaro , axel or ryback. reigns might benefit if it was him alone but if brock turns up again , who knows ....

Yeah, Heyman really only benefited Brock in the last few years. And Brock was already a beast with or without Heyman.

But I’m curious what they want to do with Roman and Heyman, it’s an interesting situation to say the least.

[Riv86672]

heyman didn't do much for cesaro , axel or ryback. reigns might benefit if it was him alone but if brock turns up again , who knows ....

That’s actually a better record than MiTB, w. Kennedy, Cena, Damien Sandow, Baron Corbin, and Strowman failing to cash in. The trick w. Heyman is figuring out if and when he’ll turn on you.

Heck, Heyman has the distinction of managing 3 World Champions back to back (to back), w. lesnar, then Big Show followed by Angle. That was a master class on backstabbing in three parts!

[BigLbo]

There are plenty of times a wrestler lost a title, then got their rematch the next night on RAW or Smackdown and lost again. THat's pretty common when they're ending the feud.

you're leaving out the part about having a clear advantage on night 1 and tapping both nights(aka missing the point again). also many bad things are common, just because something is common doesn't make it good.

As far as ending Asuka's title reign so that both members of the Golden Role Models can get 2 belts... you can argue they shouldn't have done that as it did hurt Asukas title reign. Then again I do think it helped the Golden Role models really push them being the top of the division by having them literally hold all the gold. And it gives Asuka sort of a heroes journey as she lost her title and her partner, before in the end winning it back against the odds in a big PPV.

Honestly I don't think the fans of Asuka or the Golden Role Models really have too much to worry about. Our concern is better saved for the rest of the women.

golden role models didn't really need the help, their act was good enough. that title needed to be re-established more than sasha needed to hold and quickly drop it again.

I could maybe buy that arguement for a top face who might pass out instead of tapping, but I honestly don't think it applies to Sasha. If Becky can cleanly tap out to Asuka, then Sasha can. To me it's more questionable to argue that Asuka can't tap her out.

becky didn't do it 2 nights back to back and have a big advantage the 1st night, and to be honest it was pretty dumb when becky did it too but she had the luxury of being bulletprooof by that point.

I think that it was true in the 90's, that wrestlers (especially faces) didn't submit, period. But with the advent of UFC, it's changed the way we look at submission moves. There's nothing bad about tapping especially when they are going to break your arm if you don't--and then you can't wrestle at all. If anything it looks bad on the person applying the submission (in the case of the Asuka Lock) that she hasn't dislocated anyone's elbow after holding it in that long. (One reason why I don't think it should be a wrestling finisher unless everyone is ready to tap out right away) The pain isn't necessarily the problem with that move, it's that you're going to get your arm snapped. When a lady in UFC didn't tap out right away, Ronda Rousey didn't hesitate to dislocate it.

WWE doesn't book like a shoot style promotion, or even a lucha promotion for that matter but imo that's not the issue. sasha tapping out at the ppv was fine, or if she lost by pinfall and tapped the next night would've been better, but 2 nights in a row is unnecessary and damages sasha.

Egads, the story of the match wasn't Sasha tapping twice in two days, it's Bayley pussing out on doing for Sasha what she did for Bayley to retain her title. Focusing on Sasha tapping is stupid because nobody is going to remember it, only the match showing the beginnings of the cracks in the foundation of the Golden Role Models.

the beginnings of cracks?? that shits been cracking for years already.

Being perfectly frank, most of her fans are overly obsessive about **** that doesn't matter. Sasha isn't being made to look weak, she's a goddamn heel that's finally getting her comeuppance from someone she's been feuding with for the better part of two months along with seeing that her supposed BFF isn't willing to help her to the extent that Sasha helped her. She's not being booked like freakin' Naomi, there's a clear and concise story being told here.

i'm not even a fan of sasha, i just think it's bad storytelling especially if their planning to turn her face against bayley. sasha had the clear advantage night one and still lost, then got a 2nd chance and lost again, so she's going to blame bayley for not helping her cheat enough. why should anybody either feel sympathy for or even believe in her as a face?? on top of that she's pretty terrible at being a face anyways so this is really not doing her any favors.

Glad I'm not the only one who found Jericho overbearing on commentary. I feel like he spends most of the time shouting and It's really distracting from what's going on in the ring. I sorely missed Tazz at the desk tonight. Tony Khan really needs to tell Jericho to tone it down a little on commentary, I know he's supposed to be a larger than life heel but I can't with all that shouting.

a little jericho on commentary goes a long ways imo, he should only do a couple of matches here and there not a whole night.

He isn't saying all those things don't matter. All these things are building to a bigger story.

heard that one before(charlotte in nxt rings a bell), not that comforting after a while.

Yeah man it's weird how ppl can't grasp that concept.

some people can but choose not to.

orton continues to be great. hurt business is also great but god damn throw those guys some wins, same with garza & andrade.

[Riv86672]

Yeah, Heyman really only benefited Brock in the last few years. And Brock was already a beast with or without Heyman.

^^^I missed this earlier.

Gotta agree to disagree on that. lesnar debuted in 02, and was quickly paired w. Heyman, who led him to his first World Championship within 5 months. Heyman was instrumental in building lesnar’s mystique, his brand as they say nowadays.

[XPac]

Yeah, Heyman really only benefited Brock in the last few years. And Brock was already a beast with or without Heyman.

But I’m curious what they want to do with Roman and Heyman, it’s an interesting situation to say the least.

Roman (like CM Punk back in the day) strictly speaking didn't need Heyman.

But I think in part Heymans presence signifies that Roman is a true heel rather than a tweaner or a face who happens to act like a heel... in this day and age, it's sometimes hard to tell. I know I had a LITTLE difficulty figuring out if Romans attack at Summerslam was a legit heel turn or him simply trying to show for edge to him. But Heyman just sitting there communitates a heel turn.

And I also think this is a potential chance to really change up the character. Not that they are necessarily going to, as they might not want to fix it if it ain't broken. Maybe him coming out in a suit to cut promos for example, and be a more main event mafia type character. Again, he doesn't necessarily need a face lift... but if they go that route, Heyman can be a part of the package.

But I think the biggest asset is that it means Roman doesn't have to be there. Roman can be a special attraction that only occasionally shows up... Heycan can be there in his place. It makes Roman actually being there a bigger deal. And that also might be a health thing... maybe Roman wants to show up less often and Hey can speak for him.

It all adds up to lot of little things that Roman arguably doesn't need, but it's still potentially interesting

[XPac]

^^^I missed this earlier.

Gotta agree to disagree on that. lesnar debuted in 02, and was quickly paired w. Heyman, who led him to his first World Championship within 5 months. Heyman was instrumental in building lesnar’s mystique, his brand as they say nowadays.

I agree with this. Brock isn't the most complete sports entertainer, and Heyman helps plug the holes. Not that Brock can't in theory fuction without him, but Brock as part of a package with Heyman is a more complete main event ready star.

Pairing Heyman and Roman is more comparable to when they paired Heyman with CM Punk. Punk in theory was more than capable of doing it alone... but Heyman still added something. And it meant Punk didn't necessarily always have to be there, which made him feel like more of a special attraction.

[Username taken]

^^^I missed this earlier.

Gotta agree to disagree on that. lesnar debuted in 02, and was quickly paired w. Heyman, who led him to his first World Championship within 5 months. Heyman was instrumental in building lesnar’s mystique, his brand as they say nowadays.

I was referring to his post-UFC return. I wasn’t very clear in my original post.

In the beginning Paul definitely helped but later Brock just became a thing of his own.

[Immortal Weapon]

I was referring to his post-UFC return. I wasn’t very clear in my original post.

In the beginning Paul definitely helped but later Brock just became a thing of his own.

Brock still needs Heyman. The man can't talk. Every time it did he said things that were absolutely embarrassing. He needs a mouthpiece