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  1. #3691
    Extraordinary Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Asuka won the main event of a main roster PPV in a match she won involving arguably the hottest wrestler in the company right now... that's as much if not more spotlight than Asuka has gotten on her entire run in the company. In comparison to Becky she is still somewhat of an after thought... but that would likely be the case with or without Charlotte involved in the match.
    yeah yeah that's cool and all but still how do you figure aska was put over by becky & charlotte in the match??

    And I agree you should end an angel before people stop caring. The question is whether or not you're getting to that point yet. Pretty much the exact same people made the exact same arguement prior to the Last Man Standing match with Charlotte, but they still seemed to care about the TLC with Charlotte in it, so it wasn't a problem then. If the next match we have in the angle still has people emotionally invested then it won't be a problem now either... but I guess we'll see. The fact that the angle by design has others involved (Asuka and down the line Ronda) helps with the staleness issue since it's not JUST the same 2 people wrestling.
    that's not the question either, so PLEASE stop answering it. it's fact they've gotten plenty of millage out of the match up and have surpassed a satisfactory point in the feud to move on from for now.

    And I keep going back to the "it's just not what you want" arguement because until we actually see a negative response to the angle in the actual product, a handful of people complaining about it on the net is basically the only issue it has. Arguing it MIGHT get stale isn't an actual problem... it's merely a hypotehtical problem that COULD arise. Not the same thing.
    i think you've clearly lost sight of what's going on here. people have xpressed why they don't want to see things progress to a 3way for mania. you say you don't see the problem, so it's pointed out to you over and over but you just won't xcept it and are using a "MARKZ ON THE INTERNET" defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    It's somewhat of a slow turn, but you can tell the difference between Charlotte before the ROnda match and afterwards when she "snapped" or whatever. Prior to the match she was doing this match FOR Becky. Now she's talking down to Becky after they SEEMINGLY make peace, and is cheating more and backing off more. Her promos are basically what they were when she was a heel.

    As far as the announcers talking about the match with Ronda... they were selling it like it was an act of desperation (something she herself was selling). That's not really face like. It was sold like she couldn't beat Ronda straight up and snapped. That's not how you sell a face. Not that faces can't cheat, but this was something else.

    Truthfully if they wanted Charlotte face they simply wouldn't have them feuding with each other because they obviously know that talking down to Becky will get her booed. It's no secret at this point. Having her work with Becky or simply keeping her away from Becky would achieve a much stronger face reaction than constantly telling people that Becky is in her shadow. But they know that, and are getting the exact reaction they want out of Charlotte.
    or you know, they just have their heads up their asses when it comes to heels & faces. but we're just guys on the internet so they obviously know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by LibSuperstar View Post
    Saw it earlier. That was ace. Animal seems a tad behind the times.
    true but imo he has a point when it comes to becky. she was more than fine as a straight up never say die baby face. what she's become since that horrible attempt at a heel turn is awesome too but we'll never really know how hot she would've been had they just given her the ball voluntarily. of course some will pretend like it was all by design and becky's hotter now than she would've been but like i said there's no way of truly knowing.
    Last edited by BigLbo; 12-24-2018 at 12:50 AM.

  2. #3692
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLbo View Post
    yeah yeah that's cool and all but still how do you figure aska was put over by becky & charlotte in the match??



    that's not the question either, so PLEASE stop answering it. it's fact they've gotten plenty of millage out of the match up and have surpassed a satisfactory point in the feud to move on from for now.



    i think you've clearly lost sight of what's going on here. people have xpressed why they don't want to see things progress to a 3way for mania. you say you don't see the problem, so it's pointed out to you over and over but you just won't xcept it and are using a "MARKZ ON THE INTERNET" defense.



    or you know, they just have their heads up their asses when it comes to heels & faces. but we're just guys on the internet so they obviously know better.



    true but imo he has a point when it comes to becky. she was more than fine as a straight up never say die baby face. what she's become since that horrible attempt at a heel turn is awesome too but we'll never really know how hot she would've been had they just given her the ball voluntarily. of course some will pretend like it was all by design and becky's hotter now than she would've been but like i said there's no way of truly knowing.
    They probably DO know better than guys on the internet because they actually see the date and the numbers. They have a far better understanding of what works and what doesn't because they have the date from the ratings segments, the merchendise, the buyrates, and even the audience reaction on non televised events.The reason John Cena and Roman Reigns still have jobs is because WWE feels, rightly so, that they know better than random guys on the internet. Plus they also have knowledge of things like injuries or personal issues which potentially effect their booking decisions that we don't. Inserting CHarlotte can be as simply as protecting Becky from taking bumps in matches while shes recovering from injury (not saying that's the case... merely saying those are things which can effect booking which guys on the internet might not know about).

    But as far as moving on past Charlote and Becky... again, they are BOTH feuding with Ronda. Until there is a degree of closure with at least ONE of them, they both are still involved in the same storyline. Which likely means they are still going to be involved with each other up to the RUmble. We don't know what sort of match they will both be involved with at the Rumble or Wrestlemania for that matter, but at this point until some resolution with Ronda is made for at least ONE of them it doesn't make sense for either to be removed from the storyline. There's no closure in that regard yet.

    Given that Ronda is on a different brand from both, the practical thing about having Charlotte and Becky involved is they can actually build and further the angle with another person there. It gives them both people to actually play off of in promos.
    Last edited by XPac; 12-24-2018 at 05:56 AM.

  3. #3693
    Extraordinary Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    They probably DO know better than guys on the internet because they actually see the date and the numbers. They have a far better understanding of what works and what doesn't because they have the date from the ratings segments, the merchendise, the buyrates, and even the audience reaction on non televised events.The reason John Cena and Roman Reigns still have jobs is because WWE feels, rightly so, that they know better than random guys on the internet. Plus they also have knowledge of things like injuries or personal issues which potentially effect their booking decisions that we don't. Inserting CHarlotte can be as simply as protecting Becky from taking bumps in matches while shes recovering from injury (not saying that's the case... merely saying those are things which can effect booking which guys on the internet might not know about).
    so why do you bother discussing WWE on the internet?? you can use that defense anytime you're defending WWE decisions

    But as far as moving on past Charlote and Becky... again, they are BOTH feuding with Ronda. Until there is a degree of closure with at least ONE of them, they both are still involved in the same storyline. Which likely means they are still going to be involved with each other up to the RUmble. We don't know what sort of match they will both be involved with at the Rumble or Wrestlemania for that matter, but at this point until some resolution with Ronda is made for at least ONE of them it doesn't make sense for either to be removed from the storyline. There's no closure in that regard yet.
    NO. ****.


    Given that Ronda is on a different brand from both, the practical thing about having Charlotte and Becky involved is they can actually build and further the angle with another person there. It gives them both people to actually play off of in promos.
    merry christmas

  4. #3694
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLbo View Post
    so why do you bother discussing WWE on the internet?? you can use that defense anytime you're defending WWE decisions



    NO. ****.



    merry christmas
    I discuss the WWE on the internet because I enjoy discussing the WWE on the internet. You can discuss the product without necessarily assuming that guys on the internet are more knowledgable about it than the people in the actual industry.

  5. #3695
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xpac
    They probably DO know better than guys on the internet because they actually see the date and the numbers. They have a far better understanding of what works and what doesn't because they have the date from the ratings segments, the merchendise, the buyrates, and even the audience reaction on non televised events.The reason John Cena and Roman Reigns still have jobs is because WWE feels, rightly so, that they know better than random guys on the internet. Plus they also have knowledge of things like injuries or personal issues which potentially effect their booking decisions that we don't. Inserting CHarlotte can be as simply as protecting Becky from taking bumps in matches while shes recovering from injury (not saying that's the case... merely saying those are things which can effect booking which guys on the internet might not know about)
    I heavily disagree on this one. If they did know better than there wouldn't be any record low ratings, low attendance for live shows, having fans turn against most of their creative decisions. None of these things matter to them since they don't need to please fans to be successful anymore. They make their money on TV deals.

  6. #3696
    Extraordinary Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I discuss the WWE on the internet because I enjoy discussing the WWE on the internet. You can discuss the product without necessarily assuming that guys on the internet are more knowledgable about it than the people in the actual industry.
    why bother, guys on the internet don't know ****. WWE knows best.

    but back on topic, how did becky & charlotte put over aska again??

  7. #3697
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    I heavily disagree on this one. If they did know better than there wouldn't be any record low ratings, low attendance for live shows, having fans turn against most of their creative decisions. None of these things matter to them since they don't need to please fans to be successful anymore. They make their money on TV deals.
    The fact that the ratings are at an all time low doesn't mean random guys on the internet can run the company better. Plenty of people, many of whom have far more experience in the wrestling business than the VAST majority of internet wrestling bloggers, have tried running a wrestling promotion and failed. WWE is one of the few who have not only survived (a feat in and of itself) but thrived.

    But that issue aside OF COURSE they know more than the guys on the internet... again, they have the information to actually made informed decisions that we don't. They have the merchendise sales, the PPV buyrate date, ratings, etc. They also have information on things like injuries and personal problems which can effect booking decision. One perfect example is Braun Strauman not being Brock Lesnar. A lot of people were critical of Braun not winning the universal title. But fastforward a bit and we find out Braun is working through injuries and would need surgery... so him not winning the universal title probably makes sense.

    For all we know, that MIGHT be the case with Becky. People were critical of the TLC match being a triple threat, but what if Becky despite being cleared to compete isn't at 100% considering she is JUST returning from injury? Maybe putting Charlotte in the match to take the lions share of the bumps is a better long term booking decision that protects her more. Or maybe not... like the Braun situation we may not know. But they do... and that's sort of the point.

  8. #3698
    Extraordinary Member BigLbo's Avatar
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    your generalization of random guys on the internet is asinine.

    also if becky wasn't 100% putting her in a TLC match destroys your theory of them knowing better than random internet MARKZ.

    1 more thing, the point was never that random internet guys know better than WWE, the point was it's a lame argument for one guy on the internet to make against another.
    Last edited by BigLbo; 12-24-2018 at 07:56 AM.

  9. #3699
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLbo View Post
    your generalization of random guys on the internet is asinine.

    also if becky wasn't 100% putting her in a TLC match destroys your theory of them knowing better than random internet MARKZ.
    If a wrestler isn't at 100%, putting them in multiple person matches is a way to protect them because there are more people to carry the load. Charlotte took the lions share of the bumps in that match... I don't think it's much of a stretch to argue that he made the match. We have a rare instance of women main eventing a PPV, and a woman JUST coming off injuries headlinging it. Charlotte in all likelihood helps deliver a safer better match.

    As far as generalizing random guys on the internet... I don't think it's much of a generalization at all to say random guys on the internet know less about running a wrestling company than the people in the actual industry (unless the guy on the internet happens to be in the business of course). I think it's that sort of logic which hurt WCW back in the day. Guys in suits though they knew how to run a wrestlling company because they watched it on TV. But it doesn't necessariily work that way. If you're not in the business, you're probably not qualified to run it. In the least you're probably LESS qualified. Doesn't mean the guys in the business are perfect or can't make mistakes... they're human. But it's fair to assume they know more than the people just watching it on TV. That's not a generalization, that's just common sense.

  10. #3700
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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  11. #3701
    Put a smile on that face Immortal Weapon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    If a wrestler isn't at 100%, putting them in multiple person matches is a way to protect them because there are more people to carry the load. Charlotte took the lions share of the bumps in that match... I don't think it's much of a stretch to argue that he made the match. We have a rare instance of women main eventing a PPV, and a woman JUST coming off injuries headlinging it. Charlotte in all likelihood helps deliver a safer better match.

    As far as generalizing random guys on the internet... I don't think it's much of a generalization at all to say random guys on the internet know less about running a wrestling company than the people in the actual industry (unless the guy on the internet happens to be in the business of course). I think it's that sort of logic which hurt WCW back in the day. Guys in suits though they knew how to run a wrestlling company because they watched it on TV. But it doesn't necessariily work that way. If you're not in the business, you're probably not qualified to run it. In the least you're probably LESS qualified. Doesn't mean the guys in the business are perfect or can't make mistakes... they're human. But it's fair to assume they know more than the people just watching it on TV. That's not a generalization, that's just common sense.
    It's about putting on an entertaining product not running the in and outs of the company. No here or anywhere is going that deep. You can't expect anyone to have any faith in this company when fucking up is all they do.

  12. #3702
    nice to meet ya! master of read's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    It's about putting on an entertaining product not running the in and outs of the company. No here or anywhere is going that deep. You can't expect anyone to have any faith in this company when fucking up is all they do.
    one of my friends tried a similar argument. he basically wanted to give the product a pass if it's bad because of the success Vince had in the past.

    you can see the flaw in this logic.

  13. #3703
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal Weapon View Post
    It's about putting on an entertaining product not running the in and outs of the company. No here or anywhere is going that deep. You can't expect anyone to have any faith in this company when fucking up is all they do.
    I'm not saying you necessarily have to have faith in the company. What am simply stating is that they are in a more knowledgable position to make decisions than we are. They have a better understanding of who is actually generating money and who is not, who is injured and who is not, etc. We as viewers can argue how things should be booked based on what we personally want to see, but for the WWE there's a little more to it than just that.

    If you don't like it and you're not entertained, by all means say so. As viewers, that's exactly what we are here to do. Give our imput on what we like and don't like. But that shoudln't be confused with assuming we actually have a better understanding of what's going in in that company than they do, because obviously we don't.

  14. #3704
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master of read View Post
    one of my friends tried a similar argument. he basically wanted to give the product a pass if it's bad because of the success Vince had in the past.

    you can see the flaw in this logic.
    For the record, I"m not arguing anyone should give the product a pass if it's bad. I'd argue the opposite. If you don't like it, watch something you like. If more people did that, the internet would be a happier place.

  15. #3705
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    Would anybody happen to have a favorite rivalry/feud this past year?

    Mine would have to be Nakamura and Styles. From Wrestlemania all the way to Money in the Bank, I was on the edge of my seat for all of it. Would loved to have seen Nakamura win in the end but I think this could be picked up later down the line with that ending.

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