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[BigLbo]

Hey, I don't dispute he's not a very very good wrestler. Never claimed otherwise. My stance is that he's simply not on Seth's level. Seth is a much bigger star. If we all agree with that, we're good.

i was wrong(that's how it's done when you are wrong about something) when i said payscale was the only level that didn't match up. it''s payscale and stardom/fame. as far as wrestling they are not on different levels, again look at their PPV main events from this month and will had a better match infront of a bigger crowd.

so a quick recap
seth says nobody alive wrestles as much as me as well as i do
will says "i'm alive(and does)"

will was right on that

seth says "i make more money and ricochet is better than you"

seth is a douche on that.

In Seths case, I think his name value and in-ring talent line up pretty well. Won't say that's always the case for EVERY wrestler... but it does for him. Though again, there are reasons why certain wrestlers have more name value than others. It's not completely accidental.

And yes, Will's the top guy in his division of New Japan... but he's not one of their actual top guys. There's a difference. You can be a top guy in NXT or 205 Live, but that doesn't necessarily get you the main event at Wrestlemania. Peter Dunne is the top guy in his division in the WWE, and he's absolutely amazing. But with all due respect, I wouldn't say he's on Seth's level either. Seth is at least arguably THE guy in his company outside of special attractions ... with all due respect I'm not sure Will is that high up in that conversation.

seth hasn't main evented mania since 2015 and hasn't made it back since. even then he was an unannounced add on. does that mean he's not a top guy??

All of this talk of camels breaking backs and no Iron Sheik references, I'm disappointed

Saudi Arabia is one of the most corrupt government on Earth. They also find schools and charities worldwide. They are a huge global player for quite some time. It would be really hard not to have financial dealings with them, if you are a global organization.


I don't have a side in the Will vs Seth thing. If it gets Seth and Becky quite frankly back as natural heels, then I am happy.

i always thought seth kind of sucked as a heel. much better as a face where he can just let his ring work get him over.

[steve2275]

7 22 16
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetsuya_Naito vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuji_Nagata
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomoaki_Honma vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katsuyori_Shibata

[BigLbo]

are all the guys in NXT breakout tourney signed?? i see bronson reed/jonah rock is facing dexter lumis/samuel shaw. has shaw improved in ring?? i thought he played the gimmick well enough but he wasn't very impressive in the ring.

for those unfamiliar with bronson reed aka jonah rock


maybe they could team him up with shane thorne, bit of a TMDK reunion.

[XPac]

i was wrong(that's how it's done when you are wrong about something) when i said payscale was the only level that didn't match up. it''s payscale and stardom/fame. as far as wrestling they are not on different levels, again look at their PPV main events from this month and will had a better match infront of a bigger crowd.

so a quick recap
seth says nobody alive wrestles as much as me as well as i do
will says "i'm alive(and does)"

will was right on that

seth says "i make more money and ricochet is better than you"

seth is a douche on that.



seth hasn't main evented mania since 2015 and hasn't made it back since. even then he was an unannounced add on. does that mean he's not a top guy??



i always thought seth kind of sucked as a heel. much better as a face where he can just let his ring work get him over.

It's true that WIll did have a better match in front of a bigger crowd. Yet if Seth had left the WWE and worked that exact same card in New Japan, he'd get a match just as good only with a stronger crowd reaction higher on the card, and he'd probably get paid twice as much for doing it. Conversely if you had Will work on Seth's card, he'd be just anotehr guy on the card. The differences there are more attributed to the enviroment than the wrestlers. You put Seth and Will on the same card in any organization on the planet and odds are Seth will put out just as good a match, only much higher on the card with a stronger reaction and get paid more to do it.

Again, Will is simply not on Seth's level. Someone else pointed out that Will is younger, so who knows... maybe half a decade from now Will can be at the same level of a Seth. I wouldn't predict it but ya never know. But he's not there now.

Is Will a great worker? Sure. Never said otherwise. Is he as good as Seth. Arguably, though I personally wouldn't say he's as good an all around sports entertainer... but that's just my opinion, you might feel differently.

[BigLbo]

It's true that WIll did have a better match in front of a bigger crowd. Yet if Seth had left the WWE and worked that exact same card in New Japan, he'd get a match just as good only with a stronger crowd reaction higher on the card, and he'd probably get paid twice as much for doing it.

1st part is VERY questionable, the 2nd part is just wrong 100%. 3rd part is irrelevant.

Conversely if you had Will work on Seth's card, he'd be just anotehr guy on the card. The differences there are more attributed to the enviroment than the wrestlers. You put Seth and Will on the same card in any organization on the planet and odds are Seth will put out just as good a match, only much higher on the card with a stronger reaction and get paid more to do it.

that just shows WWE have their heads up their asses.

Again, Will is simply not on Seth's level. Someone else pointed out that Will is younger, so who knows... maybe half a decade from now Will can be at the same level of a Seth. I wouldn't predict it but ya never know. But he's not there now.

Is Will a great worker? Sure. Never said otherwise. Is he as good as Seth. Arguably, though I personally wouldn't say he's as good an all around sports entertainer... but that's just my opinion, you might feel differently.

xcept when it comes to actual wrestling and promos. just out of curiosity what dept of sports entertainment is seth on higher level of, in the ring, promos, it factor?? or do you consider how much somebody gets paid a factor??

some people who watch more wrestling than you or i believe will is the best in the business right now. i think that's on overstatement but i think it would be to say that about seth as well. personally i don't think either is significantly better than the other.

[XPac]

1st part is VERY questionable, the 2nd part is just wrong 100%. 3rd part is irrelevant.



that just shows WWE have their heads up their asses.



xcept when it comes to actual wrestling and promos. just out of curiosity what dept of sports entertainment is seth on higher level of, in the ring, promos, it factor?? or do you consider how much somebody gets paid a factor??

some people who watch more wrestling than you or i believe will is the best in the business right now. i think that's on overstatement but i think it would be to say that about seth as well. personally i don't think either is significantly better than the other.

If you get a top WWE star debuting on a New Japan PPV, it'll be a bigger deal than almost any star wrestling on the card who they crowd has seen wrestling for that organization a dozen times. And as for pay being irrelavent... again, there are reasons why he would get paid more. There are reasons why he would get paid more on any card on any organization on any continent on the planet.

And like I said, me believing Seth is a better all around sports entertainer is just my opinion. They're both good. Again, never said otherwise. My point was simply that Seth is on another level, and would be treated as such both in Seth's backyard, on Wills, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Immortal Weapon]

are all the guys in NXT breakout tourney signed?? i see bronson reed/jonah rock is facing dexter lumis/samuel shaw. has shaw improved in ring?? i thought he played the gimmick well enough but he wasn't very impressive in the ring.

for those unfamiliar with bronson reed aka jonah rock


maybe they could team him up with shane thorne, bit of a TMDK reunion.

They are all signed. The tournament is a means to introduce them all at once.

[BigLbo]

If you get a top WWE star debuting on a New Japan PPV, it'll be a bigger deal than almost any star wrestling on the card who they crowd has seen wrestling for that organization a dozen times. And as for pay being irrelavent... again, there are reasons why he would get paid more. There are reasons why he would get paid more on any card on any organization on any continent on the planet.

doesn't matter, he's still not main eventing THAT card.

why are you talking pay?? seth brought that up because he was being a douche, why do you keep bring it up??

And like I said, me believing Seth is a better all around sports entertainer is just my opinion. They're both good. Again, never said otherwise. My point was simply that Seth is on another level, and would be treated as such both in Seth's backyard, on Wills, or anywhere else for that matter.

strong case you make there. instead of saying they're on different levels, why not just say seth makes more money and is more famous?? because as far as wrestling/sports entertainment they aren't on different levels, will's actually outperforming him on a regular basis. in fact i hear he killed it again in austrailia last night/this morning

[Immortal Weapon]

It's true that WIll did have a better match in front of a bigger crowd. Yet if Seth had left the WWE and worked that exact same card in New Japan, he'd get a match just as good only with a stronger crowd reaction higher on the card, and he'd probably get paid twice as much for doing it. Conversely if you had Will work on Seth's card, he'd be just anotehr guy on the card. The differences there are more attributed to the enviroment than the wrestlers. You put Seth and Will on the same card in any organization on the planet and odds are Seth will put out just as good a match, only much higher on the card with a stronger reaction and get paid more to do it.

Again, Will is simply not on Seth's level. Someone else pointed out that Will is younger, so who knows... maybe half a decade from now Will can be at the same level of a Seth. I wouldn't predict it but ya never know. But he's not there now.

Is Will a great worker? Sure. Never said otherwise. Is he as good as Seth. Arguably, though I personally wouldn't say he's as good an all around sports entertainer... but that's just my opinion, you might feel differently.

You are teaching so hard. There's no telling what kind of reaction Seth will get. There's no telling if Seth will resonate with a Japanese crowd, Mexico, or crowd that just expect something more out of their wrestling than the average WWE fan. Being over in WWE isn't universal.

Will will be another guy on the card because that's how the WWE works. No one is really unique and special on its roster.

[XPac]

You are teaching so hard. There's no telling what kind of reaction Seth will get. There's no telling if Seth will resonate with a Japanese crowd, Mexico, or crowd that just expect something more out of their wrestling than the average WWE fan. Being over in WWE isn't universal.

Will will be another guy on the card because that's how the WWE works. No one is really unique and special on its roster.

I'd say Moxley is a pretty good barameter of how well Seth would be received. Moxley is a star wherever he goes... that's the power of being a top star in the biggest wrestling organization in the world.

WWE DOES go to Japan. Seth was just there in fact, so they know who he is.

[BigLbo]

They are all signed. The tournament is a means to introduce them all at once.

oh ****. i knew about swerve and trevor lee, heard about garza jr a long ass time ago, where's he been all this time?? didn't know about jonah, DJZ or shaw.

[BigLbo]

I'd say Moxley is a pretty good barameter of how well Seth would be received. Moxley is a star wherever he goes... that's the power of being a top star in the biggest wrestling organization in the world.

WWE DOES go to Japan. Seth was just there in fact, so they know who he is.

fun facts
1)will ospreay main evented the NJPW show jon moxley debuted at.
2)if it had been rolins instead of moxley will ospreay still would've main evented.

these are not meant to be counter points to anything, just fun facts.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

[XPac]

fun facts
1)will ospreay main evented the NJPW show jon moxley debuted at.
2)if it had been rolins instead of moxley will ospreay still would've main evented.

these are not meant to be counter points to anything, just fun facts.

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!

Fair point, Moxley debuted in a PPV which had a tournament he wasn't in. And Will did win it.

I'd still argue Moxley is probably paid more and got more press despite Will winning the tournament. A good portion of the wresting community knows that Jon debuted in New Japan and won a title, but I'll wager a considerably larger portion would be able to answer who won the Juniors tournament.

But that's how it is. A top star in the biggest organization will get treated as such. Because it's the WWE, they likely will get treated that way pretty much everywhere.

[Immortal Weapon]

Fair point, Moxley debuted in a PPV which had a tournament he wasn't in. And Will did win it.

I'd still argue Moxley is probably paid more and got more press despite Will winning the tournament. A good portion of the wresting community knows that Jon debuted in New Japan and won a title, but I'll wager a considerably larger portion would be able to answer who won the Juniors tournament.

But that's how it is. A top star in the biggest organization will get treated as such. Because it's the WWE, they likely will get treated that way pretty much everywhere.

How would you know that Moxley got paid more? Ospreay is a member of the official roster while Moxley is freelancing. Not to mention Will has more revenue sources like merch.

[XPac]

How would you know that Moxley got paid more? Ospreay is a member of the official roster while Moxley is freelancing. Not to mention Will has more revenue sources like merch.

It's a fair assumption, because Moxley is a bigger star that's worth 6 times as much as Will. Heck, my freaking net worth is higher than Will Ospreasys. When you're a top WWE guy, and you're used to making millions, you command bigger pay days. Will suppoosedly makes $500,000 annually according to Forbes at least as of Sept. last year (maybe he makes more now). I'll wager Moxley does a lot better.

But in all fairness we don't know the exact numbers here, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree over who is the higher paid performer.