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[Immortal Weapon]

It's a fair assumption, because Moxley is a bigger star that's worth 6 times as much as Will. Heck, my freaking net worth is higher than Will Ospreasys. When you're a top WWE guy, and you're used to making millions, you command bigger pay days. Will suppoosedly makes $500,000 annually according to Forbes at least as of Sept. last year (maybe he makes more now). I'll wager Moxley does a lot better.

But in all fairness we don't know the exact numbers here, so I guess we'll have to agree to disagree over who is the higher paid performer.

I find it ridiculous that you think Moxley is being paid more than the guy who wrestles in New Japan as his home promotion and has ranked up accolades in it.

[XPac]

I find it ridiculous that you think Moxley is being paid more than the guy who wrestles in New Japan as his home promotion and has ranked up accolades in it.

I don't think it's ridiculous at all. Moxley is a big star, who arguably is the most talked about wrestler in the planet at the time. I'd argue the vast majority of the buzz preceeding that show wasn't about who won the tournament, but the fact that Moxley debuted and won a title. Bigger star gets bigger pay check. Nothing ridiculous about it. That's how the world works.

[Username taken]

What does a performers paycheck have to do with their ability??

A guy like Corbin or even Jinder possibly earns more than lots of guys outside but speaks nothing to their ability.

[XPac]

What does a performers paycheck have to do with their ability??

A guy like Corbin or even Jinder possibly earns more than lots of guys outside but speaks nothing to their ability.

It doens't necessarily have to do with your ability, directly at least... again it's more an issue of which performer is the bigger star. And pay check is a barameter of that. Again, Will with all due respect is not on Seths level. Or Moxleys. Maybe he will be someday, but he's not today.

I'll flip the question and say in-ring ability doesn't necessarily make you a bigger star. Seth is a great worker in addition to being a top WWE star, but a guy like Warrior in his prime was bigger than Seth or Will, and he sucked in the ring.

So no, me saying Will isn't as big a star as a top WWE performer isn't me saying he can't perform in the ring. He's just not box office to the same degree, and there's no reason to expect he should be. He simply performs on a smaller platform than a guy like Seth. Maybe that will change. We'll see.

[master of read]

guys like nakamura, rusev, and buddy murphy probably aren't being paid as much as corbin.

by that logic, does that mean that corbin is a better wrestler than those three?

[XPac]

guys like nakamura, rusev, and buddy murphy probably aren't being paid as much as corbin.

by that logic, does that mean that corbin is a better wrestler than those three?

Is there a point in this thread where I said higher pay means you are a better wrestler?

Because I said like a half dozen times I think Will and Seth are comparable in-ring performers, yet somehow me saying that Seth being bigger means he's a better wrestler.

There simply isn't necessarily a direct one to one correlation between pay check and actual in-ring ability. There CAN however be a direct correlation between pay check and what level of attraction you are. In theory the guys being paid more are the ones who are able to draw more money. Even that's not necessarily a PERFECT match... but one directly can effect the other.

[Username taken]

It doens't necessarily have to do with your ability, directly at least... again it's more an issue of which performer is the bigger star. And pay check is a barameter of that. Again, Will with all due respect is not on Seths level. Or Moxleys. Maybe he will be someday, but he's not today.

I'll flip the question and say in-ring ability doesn't necessarily make you a bigger star. Seth is a great worker in addition to being a top WWE star, but a guy like Warrior in his prime was bigger than Seth or Will, and he sucked in the ring.

So no, me saying Will isn't as big a star as a top WWE performer isn't me saying he can't perform in the ring. He's just not box office to the same degree, and there's no reason to expect he should be. He simply performs on a smaller platform than a guy like Seth. Maybe that will change. We'll see.

I don't think anyone can argue Will is as big as Rollins. Will is still early in his career and is definitely on his way up.

I also agree that in-ring ability doesn't make you a bigger star. But money isn't everything and working with WWE isn't the be-all it used to be (Jon Moxley and Kenny Omega are very good examples here).


I don't think Will himself will argue hes a bigger star, his point (if I understand correctly) is that hes every bit as good as Rollins which he arguably is. Which in and of itself is already an achievement considering hes only 26 and is already performing at an extremely high level.

[XPac]

I don't think anyone can argue Will is as big as Rollins. Will is still early in his career and is definitely on his way up.

I also agree that in-ring ability doesn't make you a bigger star. But money isn't everything and working with WWE isn't the be-all it used to be (Jon Moxley and Kenny Omega are very good examples here).


I don't think Will himself will argue hes a bigger star, his point (if I understand correctly) is that hes every bit as good as Rollins which he arguably is. Which in and of itself is already an achievement considering hes only 26 and is already performing at an extremely high level.

I didn't think anyone would argue that Will was as big a star as Seth either... yet here we are. I'm surprised I needed to defend my statement to the degree I have.

The one element I disagreed with as far as Will' statement (and the reason this conversation started in the first place) that maybe it gets under Seths skin that his junior championship means more than his universal title.

To me, that's VERY unlikely as being a Universal Champion for the WWE is simply a much bigger deal in the grand scheme of things, earning 4 times as much. It places a wrestler in a higher position on a grander stage. I honeslty believe most wrestlers, Will included, would be happy to switch places with Seth right now if they could. But I don't believe that goes both ways. For Seth, that would be a step down.

[HUTHAIFA]

You are teaching so hard. There's no telling what kind of reaction Seth will get. There's no telling if Seth will resonate with a Japanese crowd, Mexico, or crowd that just expect something more out of their wrestling than the average WWE fan. Being over in WWE isn't universal.

Will will be another guy on the card because that's how the WWE works. No one is really unique and special on its roster.

You are saying no one is PRESENTED as being unique or specialor that there is nothing unique or special about the WWE roster?

[HUTHAIFA]

I didn't think anyone would argue that Will was as big a star as Seth either... yet here we are. I'm surprised I needed to defend my statement to the degree I have.

The one element I disagreed with as far as Will' statement (and the reason this conversation started in the first place) that maybe it gets under Seths skin that his junior championship means more than his universal title.

To me, that's VERY unlikely as being a Universal Champion for the WWE is simply a much bigger deal in the grand scheme of things, earning 4 times as much. It places a wrestler in a higher position on a grander stage. I honeslty believe most wrestlers, Will included, would be happy to switch places with Seth right now if they could. But I don't believe that goes both ways. For Seth, that would be a step down.

The Universal title is pretty meh now. I regard the WWE world title with may more prestige. That isn't Seth's fault.

It's Vince for making it the Brock belt.

I want to clarify my heel feelings on Seth. For me, Seth just comes off as dishonest in his promos. Other than talking about his love of wrestling, he doesn't sound a person to believe in.

That's just judgement on his promo style. In ring, he can switch from sympathetic to menancing in a blink of an eye.

His finisher is probably the most heelish move in wrestling. Stomping on your unprotected opponents head from behind into the canvas is just brutal.

[master of read]

The Universal title is pretty meh now. I regard the WWE world title with may more prestige. That isn't Seth's fault.

It's Vince for making it the Brock belt.

I want to clarify my heel feelings on Seth. For me, Seth just comes off as dishonest in his promos. Other than talking about his love of wrestling, he doesn't sound a person to believe in.

That's just judgement on his promo style. In ring, he can switch from sympathetic to menancing in a blink of an eye.

His finisher is probably the most heelish move in wrestling. Stomping on your unprotected opponents head from behind into the canvas is just brutal.

seth's doing........ok at making the UT relevant again but he's got a long way to go. but having brock hold the belt for so long and being away from tv while he was really killed the belt's importance. so in that regard, i agree that the jr heavyweight belt has more prestige than the UT, because of both who has held it and the struggle to get it. will's last couple of matches have been absolute bangers. seth's last couple of matches were against baron corbin. nuff said.

[Username taken]

seth's doing........ok at making the UT relevant again but he's got a long way to go. but having brock hold the belt for so long and being away from tv while he was really killed the belt's importance. so in that regard, i agree that the jr heavyweight belt has more prestige than the UT, because of both who has held it and the struggle to get it. will's last couple of matches have been absolute bangers. seth's last couple of matches were against baron corbin. nuff said.

That’s a big issue too.

Seth’s run (while still in its infancy) has been a dud so far. Not because of him but of ridiculous booking decisions in the past year or so.

Brock holding the title for so long and defending it so sparsely has really dented the title.

[XPac]

seth's doing........ok at making the UT relevant again but he's got a long way to go. but having brock hold the belt for so long and being away from tv while he was really killed the belt's importance. so in that regard, i agree that the jr heavyweight belt has more prestige than the UT, because of both who has held it and the struggle to get it. will's last couple of matches have been absolute bangers. seth's last couple of matches were against baron corbin. nuff said.

I don't even necessarily disagre that the Jr. Heavy Weigth belt is more prestigeous. I just disagree with Will's view that Seth is jeolous of that. Because again, I still believe that BOTH would rather be wearing Seth's belt in Seth's positon than wearing Will's belt in Will's position.

As far as it is to say a lot of internet wrestling guys might value the Jr. heavy weight belt more, the tangible benefits of being the top guy on the top brand of the top wrestling organization in the world probably outweight that for MOST wrestler. Not all, but mot.

[master of read]

That’s a big issue too.

Seth’s run (while still in its infancy) has been a dud so far. Not because of him but of ridiculous booking decisions in the past year or so.

Brock holding the title for so long and defending it so sparsely has really dented the title.

not just that but the leniage of the UT is so crappy.

finn was the first champ but gave it up the next day due to injury.

KO was basically handed the belt and had a............meh run it.

goldberg squash KO and his reign didn't last long before dropping it to brock.

brock's run was...........well, we all know.

then he dropped the belt to roman who didn't have a good run with it himself, culiminating in the worst HIAC match ever. then he had to drop it due to leukemia.

then it returned to brock at crown jewel, which not only killed the belt again but killed braun's worth as a main event talent.

and then it was dropped to seth, who's been feuding with someone well below his level.

that's not a good line of champions for such a new belt.

hell, the IWGP US is newer than the UT and it has more value than the UT.

[Immortal Weapon]

I didn't think anyone would argue that Will was as big a star as Seth either...

No one is arguing star power. It was never part of the discussion.

The one element I disagreed with as far as Will' statement (and the reason this conversation started in the first place) that maybe it gets under Seths skin that his junior championship means more than his universal title.

I agree with Will's statement. the junior championship does have more prestige. It has decades worth of history and it's been held by legends. Compared to the fruit all up that's only been around 3 years and about half of that time it was held hostage by Lesnar. Being a world title doesn't mean it's worth a ****.