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[wjowski]

Also?

The ones leaving are the casuals, who don't bother making fun of him to begin with. The ones bothering to complain are the sames who complained about Cena or Roman week after week after week, etc.

The casual audience left years ago. What you're seeing now is the disintegration of their core audience.

[Jcogginsa]

Back stage stunts are just as valid as promos for getting people over

[XPac]

Over is over. How the guy manages to do it doesn't matter. Braun isn't the type of guy who want to see cut promos anyway. I want Braun to wrecking everything in front of him. That's his appeal. Trying to fit everyone into the same box is why WWE can't make stars.

Over is over, but he got that way by being booked in a way which hides his short comings. Harder to do when the belt is around his waist and he main eventing PPVs.

And I get his appear is wrecking everything in front of him. But a couple months of him squashing internet darlings like Riccoceht or Cedric or Nakamura, and I'll wager the usual complaints over Vinces big man "fetish" will arise. And frankly it should.

SImply put Braun isn't ready. Roman arguably wasn't either, but again Roman was at least better than Braun. And Roman actually IMPROVED. I'm not sure I can really say that about Braun to any real degree.

Over is over, and that justifies him being used. But it doesn't necessarily justify him being made the face of the company headling PPVs. Right now he's being used the way he should be used. More as an attraction than as THE GUY who is actually needing to step up and carry the company the way Seth needs to. Both guys are exactly where they should be.

[XPac]

Back stage stunts are just as valid as promos for getting people over

There's a difference. You credit the wrestler for being able to cut a promo. You credit Vinces backstage crew for being able to rig a stunt.

Any good sized wrestler in the lockerroom can pull off a staged strength of feat (not that Braun isn't freakishly strong... I'm sure he is). But the ability to go out there and cut a good promo and work the crowd is something not everyone can do well.... but MOST top stars can and should be able to do. If you can't, it's a whole in your game.

[Immortal Weapon]

Over is over, but he got that way by being booked in a way which hides his short comings. Harder to do when the belt is around his waist and he main eventing PPVs.

And I get his appear is wrecking everything in front of him. But a couple months of him squashing internet darlings like Riccoceht or Cedric or Nakamura, and I'll wager the usual complaints over Vinces big man "fetish" will arise. And frankly it should.

SImply put Braun isn't ready. Roman arguably wasn't either, but again Roman was at least better than Braun. And Roman actually IMPROVED. I'm not sure I can really say that about Braun to any real degree.

Over is over, and that justifies him being used. But it doesn't necessarily justify him being made the face of the company headling PPVs. Right now he's being used the way he should be used. More as an attraction than as THE GUY who is actually needing to step up and carry the company the way Seth needs to. Both guys are exactly where they should be.

Hiding a performers shortcomings is a strength for any promotor. Putting talent in a position where their strengths can't be highlighted is setting them up to fail.

Braun has improved. Compared to the time he was a member of the Wyatt family he's improved by miles. Working with veteran big men like Big Show, Kane and Mark Henry in the house show circuit during his rise had helped him immensely. Braun has found his niche in working car wreck style matches. It won't produce five star matches but it will never fail to entertain. That's more than I can said for Seth Rollins current reign as champ.

[XPac]

Hiding a performers shortcomings is a strength for any promotor. Putting talent in a position where their strengths can't be highlighted is setting them up to fail.

Braun has improved. Compared to the time he was a member of the Wyatt family he's improved by miles. Working with veteran big men like Big Show, Kane and Mark Henry in the house show circuit during his rise had helped him immensely. Braun has found his niche in working car wreck style matches. It won't produce five star matches but it will never fail to entertain. That's more than I can said for Seth Rollins current reign as champ.

I agree you shouldn't put talent in a position where their strengths can't be high lighted... which is basically why you probably don't want him being the champion. That's kind of the point. Keep having him do what he's doing... stunts and squashes. Put the work horses like Seth in the positon where they're able to bust their behinds in the ring.

Again, both guys right now are exactly where they should be in regards to their skill level and abilities.

And if Braun was in the same position as Seth, I very much doubt Brauns matches would be any better. If fact I'm pretty sure they would be worse. Sure you can knock the ending of Hell in the Cell... but replace Braun with Seth, and the ending is pretty much the same. The big difference being the stuff we saw from Seth leading to that ending was 10 times better. Yeah, many didn't love Seths matches with COrbin... but did ANYONE actually prefer Brauns matches with Corbin to Seths?

Bottom line is Seth right now is the work horse which has been carrying the brand for the last 2 years. He exactly the person who should be in the position he is in now. Honestly I'm a little surprised to be having the conversation over why Seth should be champion over Braun freaking Stauman. The reasons frankly should be pretty self evident.

[titanfan]

They're saying Survivor Series will be RAW vs. Smackdown vs. NXT. What exactly that means is unknown.

(Yes there's still NXT Wargames the night before)

[wjowski]

Also man is it just me or is JR getting worse?

[XPac]

They're saying Survivor Series will be RAW vs. Smackdown vs. NXT. What exactly that means is unknown.

(Yes there's still NXT Wargames the night before)

I wonder if that means they're going to eliminate the traditional Survivor Series matches. I suppose that COULD be turned into a triple theat scenario too though.

Still, that does freshes up some of the potential matches. We've seen Seth vs Brock before, so a triple threat with Adam Cole would be something entirely different. Same with Nakamura vs AJ. That's been done before, but Strong being added to the mix makes it completely different.

Poor Undisputed Era will have a busy busy weekend if they're doing both Survivor Series and War Games.

[XPac]

Also man is it just me or is JR getting worse?

In part, JR is just sort of dated. When you hear a lot of the same material over the span of a few decades, it's hard for it not to feel a LITTLE stale.

Plus, I'm not as entirely sure he's as passionate about the product as he was with RAW in the attitude era.

But a JR even at 50% is still the best in the busness quite frankly.

[Punisher007]

Brock vs. Cain was just embarrassing. And they threw away six months of actually pretty good buildup with Kofi, FOR THIS!!

Wrestling fans don't want to see fake MMA fights in their wrestling shows.

MMA fans don't care about fake MMA fights since they watch real ones, and already got this fight for real.

This pleases neither fanbase.

[wjowski]

In part, JR is just sort of dated. When you hear a lot of the same material over the span of a few decades, it's hard for it not to feel a LITTLE stale.

Plus, I'm not as entirely sure he's as passionate about the product as he was with RAW in the attitude era.

But a JR even at 50% is still the best in the busness quite frankly.

I dunno. IMO, and furthermore I never thought I'd ever say this, but he's getting outshone by Schiavone by...quite a bit.

[XPac]

I dunno. IMO, and furthermore I never thought I'd ever say this, but he's getting outshone by Schiavone by...quite a bit.

Eh... Schiavone isn't as annoying as he was in WCW, but I'd say him outshining JR is a bit of a stretch.

[Jcogginsa]

According to Wikipedia, the Fiend beat Seth

[XPac]

According to Wikipedia, the Fiend beat Seth

If nothing changes between now and Survivor Series, that means Brock Lesnar vs the Fiend. That potentially could be interesting.

Confusing thing is Bray was drafted to Smackdown, but the Fiend has the RAW world title. Does that mean Fiend does double duty, or is one persona on one brand and the other persona on the other?