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  1. #1696
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    How woudl it make you feel if Carol has a huge role in Avengers 4 because they anticipated a huge movie and it does "good but standard" Dr. Strange numbers?

    Let's hope those reshoots put in more T'challa

    (and yes... more tchalla, not team Wakanda. #selfish)
    To be fair, theres a saying that a black man gotta work twice as hard for the same opportunity and BP's box office did double Dr. Strange's...

    I guess they assumed anything less than double meant BP should have half the screentime as DS. fuzzy math!

    But that means he'll get as much screentime as antman in A4!

  2. #1697
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I expect Cap marvel will do decent numbers, I think it could do WW numbers. I think now that BP smashed all expectations they are probably going to assume marvel will do the same. And yes I hope that the reshoots brought T'Challa in to it for More work because honestly, if they want to make Wakanda a hub going forward Tchalla needs to be front and center
    Yes, focusing on the last part of your post. Anything less than that and it would be criminal. That is ready and needs to see more of black males as heroes in the alpha sense. All the black sidekick thing is done with me. The comic side still seems to be dragging their feet. Yes you made BP head of Avengers...well okay, but have seen the exposure Wolverine continues to get? Black Panther is trending toward having his impact diffused by his sister and now Killmonger stories. Honestly its okay if they get treatment too I just want to see more depth and cohesion with Black Panther himself. Case in point why is Wolverine now hosting the Phoenix force story but we still have no damn clue what kind of power Avengers 10 million BC Panther has? Put some respeck on him! If he gonna have animal skin on lookin crazy then at least make him close to Odin level, I mean jeez man.

  3. #1698
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think you missed my point. Your confusing story with plot. Stories should be Character driven, not plot driven. I'll give an example with Coates.

    Season 1 has Tchalla moping, Wakanda has fallen Into chaos and the Wakandan army and resources are stretched thin (let me first tell you that this bit here isn't even said on panel, Coates said it in a tweet) and Tchalla is too "distracted" to stop obvious big ass rape treehouses in Wakanda, and the MA say that government doesn't care. In the past we have seen T'Challa personally take care of these issues when they arise, from drug trafficking, to when a little girl in America died he dropped what he was doing and raised hell.

    Here he doesn't bother. He is shown to not have any sort of plan when facing his enemies so he gets beat by Zenzi by pure stupidity. Then the next issue he gets beat by Tetu by pure stupidity. He agrees to let KNOWN despots into Wakanda to ask for advice on how to quell a rebellion (something he has taken care of many times in the past) "Just to see what they would say) this scene was so stupid and served to drive an agenda that even casuals went wtf was that about.

    Rather then bring the villains up to Tchallas level, he was instead dumbed down.

    Making the story their own doesn't mean changing the Characters so much that they are completely different and basically new characters. Priest's, Hudlin, Liss told their own stories and made it their own while staying true to the characters core characterization.

    And one last thing, marvel has hired for the BP mythos sense Coates has gotten on, 6 noncomic book writers, all neophytes to the Craft, to write BP or BP related stories.. only one of them has done a good job. And that was Evan narcisse and Even then you could tell he was new to the craft. He should of been another Hudlin and given time to improve honestly. So "talented authors in one area doesn't automatically translate into talented comic book artist.
    I think Browne gets an honorable mention. A Kasper crime drama would go well with the digital only series Marvel started with Luke and Jessica.

  4. #1699
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I expect Cap marvel will do decent numbers, I think it could do WW numbers. I think now that BP smashed all expectations they are probably going to assume marvel will do the same. And yes I hope that the reshoots brought T'Challa in to it for More work because honestly, if they want to make Wakanda a hub going forward Tchalla needs to be front and center
    How do feel about those rumored reports that friend Carol will be the face of the MCU moving forward, before her movie even drops?

  5. #1700
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Yes, focusing on the last part of your post. Anything less than that and it would be criminal. That is ready and needs to see more of black males as heroes in the alpha sense. All the black sidekick thing is done with me. The comic side still seems to be dragging their feet. Yes you made BP head of Avengers...well okay, but have seen the exposure Wolverine continues to get? Black Panther is trending toward having his impact diffused by his sister and now Killmonger stories. Honestly its okay if they get treatment too I just want to see more depth and cohesion with Black Panther himself. Case in point why is Wolverine now hosting the Phoenix force story but we still have no damn clue what kind of power Avengers 10 million BC Panther has? Put some respeck on him! If he gonna have animal skin on lookin crazy then at least make him close to Odin level, I mean jeez man.
    These last 2.5 years of satellite books have been largely embarrassing, if not disrespectful in their negligence of BP (BP Rise aside). Would you agree?

    Black male sidekicks is for the birds. I dont fancy black female sidekicks either. We must save Monica and Jericho from such a fate :/

  6. #1701
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I think Browne gets an honorable mention. A Kasper crime drama would go well with the digital only series Marvel started with Luke and Jessica.
    Rembert did good job. I didn't mention him because his was a 1 shot. But your right, if much rather had BP wow been a 6 part Kasper story then the embarrassment we got instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    How do feel about those rumored reports that friend Carol will be the face of the MCU moving forward, before her movie even drops?
    While in understand maybe why they want to do that, I think it would be smarter to push T'chadwick to replace RDJ going forward. I think mcu will do a decent job with Carol, but honestly o feel like they are doing then opposite with her to Tchalla as in. They are trying to hype her up as this super important Character and putting alot of stock and faith in her that they didn't do as much with Tchalla and unlike T'Challa, she doesn't have the same edge with her debut movie since dc beat Marvel to the punch with a female Solo hero

  7. #1702
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I personally think a sign of a good writer is being able to take what was establish and evolve the character. This evolution doesn't always work and doesn't always land but you can see where they are coming from. A good writer can put his "spin" on a character without blowing it up.

    Priest is the best example. His T'challa is unrecognizable from Roy Thomas noble negro trope. But, at a more detailed look (and his own explanations), he took what was first written by Kirby/Lee, mashed it together with McGregor's Wakanda, and then sprinkled in his own stuff to "make sense" of the character and modernized. (while also keeping the Noble Monarch side of T'challa... without making him a bitch like Roy did)

    Nnedi, on the other hand, from what we have seen, just takes the character and blows it up. Malice shared no characteristics with Priest's Malice other than an obsession with T'challa and dropping Junnifeiro name every once in a while. And even that obsession played out more like a Ghetto Lifetime movie more so than what priest did. She is seemingly doing the same thing with Shuri. I personally find that lazy and uninspired. You could have easily found some reason to throw Shuri in a lab for some reason without destroying her core characteristic by also making her reluctant to do what is necessary for Wakanda.
    Yeah, being able to evolve what is established is a sign of a good writer. But being able to reinvent a character in a fresh and interesting way can also be the sign of a good writer. I love Priest, so I agree on everything you say about him. But i don't think Nnedi just blew up Nakia. I think Nnedi is saying is that what Nakia has been doing is unsustainable. Now she's dying, at the end of her rope, degrading both mentally and physically and the only thing she has left is this obsession with T'challa. The cost of all her mistakes are coming due, and she's desperate. I found this degradation of her character interesting, even if we didn't have the time to do a complex deep dive into the implications of all of it.

    I think ultimately, it comes down to whether I like the change or not. If what Nnedi does to Shuri doesn't work for me, I'll probably also call it lazy and uninspired. But if I like it, i'll probably call it a fresh reinvention of the character. But ultimately it hard to say anything since I haven't read it yet.

  8. #1703
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Pretty cool breakdown.


  9. #1704
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Rembert did good job. I didn't mention him because his was a 1 shot. But your right, if much rather had BP wow been a 6 part Kasper story then the embarrassment we got instead.



    While in understand maybe why they want to do that, I think it would be smarter to push T'chadwick to replace RDJ going forward. I think mcu will do a decent job with Carol, but honestly o feel like they are doing then opposite with her to Tchalla as in. They are trying to hype her up as this super important Character and putting alot of stock and faith in her that they didn't do as much with Tchalla and unlike T'Challa, she doesn't have the same edge with her debut movie since dc beat Marvel to the punch with a female Solo hero
    I agree wholeheartedly. That they said they'd have retroactively given BP more to do in A3 bc of his movie success.. but have stated from jump that Carol will be the face of the MCU (allegedly), most powerful hero (Fiege), and front center in A4 (closing credits), all before her movie comes out... that's a bit disrespectful. For 10 years they measured face of the mcu by profitability (Iron Man) and profitability was always the baseless claim used to argue against black superhero leads.

    So now that the most profitable superhero is black, we damn sure ain't gonna gloss over T'Chadwick when it comes to "face of the mcu". He better be all up in the video in all Avenger movies and MCU events moving forward. Better reshoot half that damn A4 movie lol

  10. #1705
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    I think you missed my point. Your confusing story with plot. Stories should be Character driven, not plot driven. I'll give an example with Coates.

    Season 1 has Tchalla moping, Wakanda has fallen Into chaos and the Wakandan army and resources are stretched thin (let me first tell you that this bit here isn't even said on panel, Coates said it in a tweet) and Tchalla is too "distracted" to stop obvious big ass rape treehouses in Wakanda, and the MA say that government doesn't care. In the past we have seen T'Challa personally take care of these issues when they arise, from drug trafficking, to when a little girl in America died he dropped what he was doing and raised hell.

    Here he doesn't bother. He is shown to not have any sort of plan when facing his enemies so he gets beat by Zenzi by pure stupidity. Then the next issue he gets beat by Tetu by pure stupidity. He agrees to let KNOWN despots into Wakanda to ask for advice on how to quell a rebellion (something he has taken care of many times in the past) "Just to see what they would say) this scene was so stupid and served to drive an agenda that even casuals went wtf was that about.

    Rather then bring the villains up to Tchallas level, he was instead dumbed down.

    Making the story their own doesn't mean changing the Characters so much that they are completely different and basically new characters. Priest's, Hudlin, Liss told their own stories and made it their own while staying true to the characters core characterization.

    And one last thing, marvel has hired for the BP mythos sense Coates has gotten on, 6 noncomic book writers, all neophytes to the Craft, to write BP or BP related stories.. only one of them has done a good job. And that was Evan narcisse and Even then you could tell he was new to the craft. He should of been another Hudlin and given time to improve honestly. So "talented authors in one area doesn't automatically translate into talented comic book artist.
    I hear your criticisms of Coates season 1, and frankly defending that isn't going to be the hill I die on. But on a more conceptual level, I'm not against changing character's core characterisations. People change in real life, so i don't see why a character can't. Its just going to come down to how its done and whether I'm into the new direction or not. If i don't like it, I'm gonna wish it never happened, but if I like it I won't care. Making their story their own doesn't necessarily mean changing the characters so much that they are completely different, but it can. New writers don't have to just change the plot but keep core characterisation unchanged. They can play with both, depending on what story their looking to tell. If its done in a cool way i don't see the problem.

  11. #1706
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    I hear your criticisms of Coates season 1, and frankly defending that isn't going to be the hill I die on. But on a more conceptual level, I'm not against changing character's core characterisations. People change in real life, so i don't see why a character can't. Its just going to come down to how its done and whether I'm into the new direction or not. If i don't like it, I'm gonna wish it never happened, but if I like it I won't care. Making their story their own doesn't necessarily mean changing the characters so much that they are completely different, but it can. New writers don't have to just change the plot but keep core characterisation unchanged. They can play with both, depending on what story their looking to tell. If its done in a cool way i don't see the problem.
    If you're going to change a characters core characterization, shouldnt some event happen to start that change. If this was a entire run relaunch after several years of no comics than making changes is less serious. But because the how well Shuri was received in the movie, Marvel went into their Yugioh deck, found their polymerization card, played it face down on the field and are hoping to create a more powerful character pretending like it was always that way.

    The MCU radically changed White Wolf, but I don't see the comics.jumping to make the change.

  12. #1707
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    If you're going to change a characters core characterization, shouldnt some event happen to start that change. If this was a entire run relaunch after several years of no comics than making changes is less serious. But because the how well Shuri was received in the movie, Marvel went into their Yugioh deck, found their polymerization card, played it face down on the field and are hoping to create a more powerful character pretending like it was always that way.

    The MCU radically changed White Wolf, but I don't see the comics.jumping to make the change.
    Well there might be some event that starts the change, we'll only know that once we read it. but either way, if the change is good and i like it, i won't mind not getting one. The change is clearly because of the movie and I'm guessing they want it to be accessible for new fans that aren't going to start at Hudlin's run to find out why Shuri is the way she is.

  13. #1708
    Extraordinary Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    Well there might be some event that starts the change, we'll only know that once we read it. but either way, if the change is good and i like it, i won't mind not getting one. The change is clearly because of the movie and I'm guessing they want it to be accessible for new fans that aren't going to start at Hudlin's run to find out why Shuri is the way she is.
    Side note: Based you your profile pic it looks like you're a Hunter X Hunter fan. Always good to meet another one.

  14. #1709
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    These last 2.5 years of satellite books have been largely embarrassing, if not disrespectful in their negligence of BP (BP Rise aside). Would you agree?

    Black male sidekicks is for the birds. I dont fancy black female sidekicks either. We must save Monica and Jericho from such a fate :/
    Truth i don't feel the head honchos have really knocked it out of the park on any of their picks for BP and BP related books. Evans showed real promise, as I recently read his RoBP, give him more time and he easily trumps any of the current writers. Why are there no top comicbook writers on his books? If they can't aside, or none of them WANT to do BP books then Poach the best from your competitors and pay them the top dollar. He'll BP movie money has shown that he is worth the risk. There's a BP cartoon coming out for Pete's sake. Get Coates the hell outta there and give us a Panther lead and themed crossover that shakes the heavens. Why are they moving back to emphasizing the same old stuff?

  15. #1710
    Original CBR member Jabare's Avatar
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    Can someone provide me with a few educated guesses on who the character T'Challa is fighting in this promo at the 0:40 to 0:42 second mark?

    Is this who I think it is?

    The J-man

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