T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Ezyo1000]

I've mentioned this before but it simply doesn't make sense for Wakanda to have really any true air force or to have any bombers.

Air Forces and bombs are used on offense. To invade, conquer, war, ect.

Wakanda doesn't do that. They don't participate in wars. They don't conquer. They don't invade. They don't interact.

Their military would be 100% suited for defense. You don't bomb your own country.

They don't even need an air force for defense/dog fights because they have a giant ass basically impenetrable shield. Such a shield that they can even open certain parts of it only.

I guess carpet bomb isn't the correct wording. However, we saw in the BP trailer that the dragon fliers shoots pulse energy as well as they have missles, so again we should of seen them basically hovering in place and blasting the hell out of them. And while Yes they would be primarily defense, they should have some mean anti-infantry tech to go along with them. I'm all for big battles just give me that other tech as well

[XPac]

When thor blew up the big containers there are fighters in the background. and some came crashing down during the snap


My headcanon of Wakanda's military has always been, "our tech is so much better than you, that you are going to have to invade with infantry. and when you do, we are better than you and we will kill you by hand"


The real reason we never see any advance war tech during invasions is that good guys running at bad guys while screaming is immensely more entertaining than true war and battle tactics lol

Yeah can make a similar argument to See Wakanda and Die. Why didn't Storm just blast the hell out of the Skrulls? It's because the whole Braveheart thing is pretty cool.

[XPac]

Just read the story. I wish I had read it before watching that video, because Kirkman ended that with a heck of a twist. It's interesting how it doesn't even go out of its way to explain exactly that happened... though you can kinda guess.

Too bad this was only a one shot.

[Mike_Murdock]

My biggest issue screen time wise was banner though. He should have been reduced to being Shuri's lab assistant. Putting him in the hulkbuster was stupid and a waste of CGI money IMO. Maybe it pays off in Av4

That makes sense when you consider the production side of things, though. Mark Ruffalo has wanted a Hulk movie for awhile but, due to rights issues, can't have one. So he was asked what he wanted out of his character and they hashed out a storyline for him that spanned Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Avengers 4.

[MindofShadow]

That makes sense when you consider the production side of things, though. Mark Ruffalo has wanted a Hulk movie for awhile but, due to rights issues, can't have one. So he was asked what he wanted out of his character and they hashed out a storyline for him that spanned Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Avengers 4.

Except, IMO of course, the message they tried to get across in IW was that Hulk wasn't gonna be used by Banner anymore... but instead he came off scared. They kinda botched it

[Cville]

When the fight gets broken down like this I'd be ducking too. Lol

[MindofShadow]

The look on hulks face when Thanos overpowers his grip

he knew he done fucked up lol

[FLEX HECTIC]

Perhaps this Hulk should have been the version to put the hands on Thanos!





I thought the Edward Norton Hulk (which is a recasted part of this MCU) did work in Brazil with Rickson Gracie... That fight desperately needed to go the ground!


Edward Norton Hulk: "Hulk Smash!"

Mark Ruffalo Hulk: "No this Hulk Smash!"

Eric Bana Hulk: "Both of you Hulks sit this one out this Hulk Smash!"

Thanos: "Can't we all just get along?"

Ebony Maw: "Let him have his fu... OH HELL NAW Cull Obsidian get in there!"

Cull Obsidian: "FRAK THAT I quit... That's a lot of blood and he keeps getting bigger the madder he gets!"

Proxima Midnight: "Thanos you okay?"

Corvus Glaive: "Poke him with your spear his fingers are still twitching is he alive!"

Loki: "I guess I'll be holding on to the tesseract then... Thanks for playing!"

Thor: "Awkward!"

Heimdall: "Your man don't look too good there you may want to call a medic... Dayum I can see his brains oozing out his helmet All Fathers let the dark magic send dude to the nearest hospital!"

Eric Bana Hulk: "I aint for playing!"

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I half agree with this.

On one hand I do think we should have spent more time in Wakanda, and their war efforts could have been a little more interesting. I don't think it was necessarily bad, but as a fan I would have liked more. The comics have shown what Wakanda is capable of on that front so they need not look very far for inspiration. That being said, they did okay. Just okay.

On the other hand, both IW and Avengers 4 went into production before and at the same time as BP, so neither had any idea what they would be truly dealing with. So I wouldn't exactly say it's their fault or it's fair to hold it against them.

That being said, this does in someway continue to show that the Russos are not perfect and unlike what many of their fans love to proclaim, they don't always do each MCU justice vs whoever directed their solo movie. This really only applies to Doctor Strange and Gamora who were both the best in IW than in their respective films. Thor is another one people mention but I argue Waititi is responsible for that.

Regarding BP, when I watched the solo movie I felt Coogler had a better understanding and smarter vision for who T'Challa is what he should be like. Civil War T'Challa may have been 'badass' and it is certainly fun watching him go through Bucky and hang with Cap, but he was blinded by rage and vengeance, which doesn't really sound like T'Challa. I always felt T'Challa in that film should have done more into the investigation of his father's assassination and not just accepting what was reported. Why didn't he also discover Zemo's plot using his available tech and security resources? In Civil War, he doesn't use his head enough. It's understandable, but it's not really accurate.

In the BP movie however, T'Challa uses his head a lot more than his heart. Instead of attacking Klaw at the casino immediately after he sees him, he waits and listens in before making a move (and before Okoye messes things up). It's only in BP that T'Challa's intelligence is brought up, with the creation of his first suit (which is still advanced) and showing that he understands how Vibranium works to destabilize Killmonger's suit. He's also given some spy abilities like how he acts in the casino and when he places the microphone on Ross without him knowing. He's at least shown to be more than a super soldier in a special suit, which is what he gets reduced to in both Civil War and IW.

I also preferred his fighting style in BP than in both Russo bros films. Aside from that triple kick during the airport battle, they portrayed T'Challa's fighting style as quite grounded (literally). The opening fight for BP however shows him doing triple flips, aerial spinning kicks, backflips, and those cool capeoira moves that make sense for him. That fight actually reminded me a lot of that recent Spider-Man comic T'Challa appeared in when Spidey remarks on how he moves extremely fast, like his reflexes work faster than his. All of T'Challa moves look extremely fluid, transition into one anothee effortlessly and look well thought out, like he knew what he was going to do before he didn't. And the strength feats were the and undeniable. Sending goons flying with punches, easily picking up a safe full of money, letting us see that whole shot of him wrestling down that rhino.

Not to say the Russos' are terrible because I am a big fan. But I can see the flaws and certainly not afraid to point them out anyway. They're big Cap fanboys at the end of the day. That much is apparent.

I agree with a lot of what you said. The problem is the new suit. Before the film I was very new suit>>old suit. However, the execution is just better with the old one. First fight scene might be T'Challa's best Panther action in all the MCU. Problem is was way too dark in theater. Its not as under lit on Blu-ray so you can see it better.

However, they should have made the old suit come out of the necklace. The mask is just far more threatening and the skin tight suit leads to more rubbery CGI than one that is bulky. Unless you getting Russo Bros like production $$$.

OG suit throughout the film would have made a world of difference. I also think limiting the use of kinetic energy would have forced them to be more creative. Sometimes you just can't trust that CGI will take care of everything...….unless you got Russo Bros like production $$$.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

[Klaue's Mixtape]

#BlackPanther is an entertaining, if extremely overrated, MCU film. It, unfortunately, is extremely cookie cutter MCU & some CG shots are horrendous, but also pays beautiful homage to African Culture, the action is great, & Killmonger is an incredible villian. We give it a 7.3/10

Character finds new self, villain looks just like the hero/same fighting style, bloated 3rd act action scene, forced humor that doesn't always land. The film is good, but it isn't wholly original as some claim it to be. It's cliched with some great characters and world building.

They are VERY different tonally, but, yes, they both follow the marvel formula. Thor is a more successful in what it sets out to do because it was just a straight comedy. Black Panther is awesome, but there are some big issues with it.

https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews/stat...34700142399489

#InfinityWar. The best MCU film & already one of our favorite films EVER. The beautiful, and haunting, character moments that the Russos craft are heartpounding & earned, but, the film truly belongs to Thanos, one of the greatest villians in cinematic history. We give it a 10/10.

https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews/stat...34983476076544


This is about the consensus you'll find.

[MindofShadow]

OG suit throughout the film would have made a world of difference. I also think limiting the use of kinetic energy would have forced them to be more creative. Sometimes you just can't trust that CGI will take care of everything...….unless you got Russo Bros like production $$$.

Huh?

Remind me, because from memory...

- force smashed the car in Korea

- leap over border tribe to force smash ground

- getting ganged up on after getting the wind knocked out of him by the rhino, explodes suit to run to Shuri

- killmonger uses it to get DM off him

- killmonger and tchalla punch each other once.


From memory, those were the only uses of the force push in the movie. How much more did you want to limit it? Every single time was a different, creative use for it?

Unlike the comics, the force push was used to ADD to the situation. It wasn't used to cover up his innate gifts. He leaps onto a car using his skill and agility, blows the car using hte force push, acrobatically lands on a different car using his abilities. He rushes the border tribe wall, leaps over it with his abilities, blows the ground with the push, uses his abilities to grab a spear in mid air and chuck in 100 yard to take out a jet.

How did the vaunted Russos with their super budget use it? Purple stuff would just explode randomly here and there.

[MindofShadow]

This is about the consensus you'll find.

You know, I have a great money making idea. Anyone want to invest?

What if, this is crazy hold on, they made a website, that took critics reviews and put them all in one spot. So you can get an average rating across hundreds of professional reviewers.

I think we would need a catchy hook and graphic though. I'm thinking if a movie falls below a certain benchmark, we will call the movie... Mushy. Like a mushy banana or something

That's it! we will call the site "Fresh Bananas"!!! That way we can find a concensus on movies instead of going through twitter comments! Or maybe MetaRatings is better if you want to be more "professional" and make less money.

Can't believe im the first to think about this before!


(btw, I find it increasingly hilarious how little Spider-Man: Homecoming gets called out for hits cgi when it had the exact same problems BP had in spots. Exact same "cgi super tight suit looks like cgi models in specific spots" problems. Quite Interesting.)

[Blind Wedjat]

I agree with a lot of what you said. The problem is the new suit. Before the film I was very new suit>>old suit. However, the execution is just better with the old one. First fight scene might be T'Challa's best Panther action in all the MCU. Problem is was way too dark in theater. Its not as under lit on Blu-ray so you can see it better.

However, they should have made the old suit come out of the necklace. The mask is just far more threatening and the skin tight suit leads to more rubbery CGI than one that is bulky. Unless you getting Russo Bros like production $$$.

OG suit throughout the film would have made a world of difference. I also think limiting the use of kinetic energy would have forced them to be more creative. Sometimes you just can't trust that CGI will take care of everything...Â….unless you got Russo Bros like production $$$.

I don't think the new suit is really the problem. I've looked at both the trailers for BP and the actual movie, and it's quite clear a large percentage of the final fight is reshot. Everything from the colour grading, the shots used, and the CGI are different, and sadly it doesn't always look as great in the movie. Even the ship battles look more dynamically shot in the trailers. The fight jets also used missiles as seen in the trailer but that's changed to the energy blasts things for the movie. My point is a lot of the shots of T'Challa physically fighting were taking out of the final cut sadly. Someone posted a clip of the stunt team rehearsing some fight choreography and it looks like it was for the final fight but didn't make the cut.

Honestly I think the new suit looks better on Chadwick's frame. I think it's also a better designed suit that's sleeker and cooler looking. I'm not sure how I feel about the new mask/helmet or whether it's better than the old one, but I do think it looks great. The kinetic energy thing is a neat idea as well that just constantly needs to be shown as useful and not necessary if you get my drift. It shouldn't be overused and it should be done creatively. I think the BP movie did a fine job with this, especially during the Busan car chase. T'Challa takes out three cars but he only uses it to take out one. The others he throws the driver out and the other he rips out the car tire.

I also think if the CGI is good enough, it wouldn't be that much of a problem.

https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews/stat...34700142399489



https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews/stat...34983476076544


This is about the consensus you'll find.

Generally this kind of stuff that unfortunately does bother me, but honestly I'm just convinced a lot of people who find BP overrated or whatever buzz words they love to use really just missed the point of the movie. For me, BP does not present some unique narrative in cinema or comic book movies, nor does it have such stellar plot twists or whatever, but it is extremely deep and layered thematically. A whole lot of MCU movies are not. That's a honest fact. Only the Russos and Gunn have films as layered, and even their efforts aren't even as layered. Everything about it from the acting performances, script and dialogue, music, costumes, and cinematography is very, very well thought out. Quite frankly I don't think a lot of MCU fans are used to that sort of thing.

Huh?

Remind me, because from memory...

- force smashed the car in Korea

- leap over border tribe to force smash ground

- getting ganged up on after getting the wind knocked out of him by the rhino, explodes suit to run to Shuri

- killmonger uses it to get DM off him

- killmonger and tchalla punch each other once.


From memory, those were the only uses of the force push in the movie. How much more did you want to limit it? Every single time was a different, creative use for it?

Unlike the comics, the force push was used to ADD to the situation. It wasn't used to cover up his innate gifts. He leaps onto a car using his skill and agility, blows the car using hte force push, acrobatically lands on a different car using his abilities. He rushes the border tribe wall, leaps over it with his abilities, blows the ground with the push, uses his abilities to grab a spear in mid air and chuck in 100 yard to take out a jet.

How did the vaunted Russos with their super budget use it? Purple stuff would just explode randomly here and there.

Exactly, and even though I did like BP using the pulse to add to his strikes in IW, it's exactly the same thing he did in the bolded.

(btw, I find it increasingly hilarious how little Spider-Man: Homecoming gets called out for hits cgi when it had the exact same problems BP had in spots. Exact same "cgi super tight suit looks like cgi models in specific spots" problems. Quite Interesting.)

BP in Civil War also looked extremely cartoony as well (that triple kick comes to mind). Not only that, but there are multiple shots where his body proportions look different. Sometimes he's got really broad shoulders, long arms and a tiny waist. Others he looks like a rectangle. He's got a floating head when he's talking to Zemo at the end. Seems like everyone has forgotten that though.

Honestly, the CGI technology to pull of superheroes in skin tight suits is not really there yet. Sometimes it looks good, other times it doesn't. Also, regarding the whole film: If MCU "fans" criticised BP the way they criticised other MCU films, they'll honestly be shocked how bad they'll look to them. Nitpicking is always gonna make a non-perfect film look bad.

[MindofShadow]

Exactly, and even though I did like BP using the pulse to add to his strikes in IW, it's exactly the same thing he did in the bolded.

I liked it in the scenario of the invasion like that.

But it definitely wasn't "creative"

BP in Civil War also looked extremely cartoony as well (that triple kick comes to mind). Not only that, but there are multiple shots where his body proportions look different. Sometimes he's got really broad shoulders, long arms and a tiny waist. Others he looks like a rectangle. He's got a floating head when he's talking to Zemo at the end. Seems like everyone has forgotten that though.

Honestly, the CGI technology to pull of superheroes in skin tight suits is not really there yet. Sometimes it looks good, other times it doesn't. Also, regarding the whole film: If MCU "fans" criticised BP the way they criticised other MCU films, they'll honestly be shocked how bad they'll look to them. Nitpicking is always gonna make a non-perfect film look bad.

There is CGI EVERYWHERE in these movies. EVERYWHERE.

We are seeing stuff that isn't "real" and trying to make it look real and sometimes the brain picks up on it and goes "yooo somethings not right here"

Russos got around it in WS by simply not having much "super hero" stuff and using bourne style quick cuts instead.