T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[MindofShadow]

I like it, but I might change it to it best strategist in the world.

But I like best fighter, or best warrior too

Issue with strategist is that you are going to bump into "Cap's thing" unfortunately.

fighter strictly gives him his own thing compared to other Avengers types.

Plus, strategy mixes in well with fights anyway

[MindofShadow]

I dont think he can tumble like SM especially since SM can stick to surfaces, but his quickness should be equal. Wasn't there an old comic where they semi-fought he was able to catch him?

He's caught Spider-Man a few times

one example




There is an older comic where he catches him but I could never find the source (spider-man has a lot of comics lol) so I never saved it. no source no save lol




BoG, whats the source on this lol? what issue?

And the second one is a good example of T'challa not quite being in Spider-Man's tier physically but is able to catch him due to strategy.

and of course this:



idk if this is canon or not though, never got a clear answer on the "spidey" series

[Mr MajestiK]

T'Challa's a meta.

Heart-shaped herb makes him the physical equivalent of Captain America. Even without the suit.

Some have chosen to forget this pertinent fact.

[Blind Wedjat]

Issue with strategist is that you are going to bump into "Cap's thing" unfortunately.

fighter strictly gives him his own thing compared to other Avengers types.

Plus, strategy mixes in well with fights anyway

I was thinking that him being the leader of an entire nation should give him an edge over Cap for that, but also strategy is essentially the thing that was use to introduce him by taking out the F4. I think generally that was also used a lot by Priest, Hudlin and Liss, and also in the EMH cartoon (beating the Avengers).

But the best fighter thing also makes sense. T'Challa is one of the few Avengers to have been groomed from birth, born into a warrior culture, and has the skill, physical stats, mental discipline and gear to pretty much put him at the top. And I think best fighter being defined as the ability to win fights and not how many styles one knows makes sense.

[MindofShadow]

I was thinking that him being the leader of an entire nation should give him an edge over Cap for that, but also strategy is essentially the thing that was use to introduce him by taking out the F4. I think generally that was also used a lot by Priest, Hudlin and Liss, and also in the EMH cartoon (beating the Avengers).

But the best fighter thing also makes sense. T'Challa is one of the few Avengers to have been groomed from birth, born into a warrior culture, and has the skill, physical stats, mental discipline and gear to pretty much put him at the top. And I think best fighter being defined as the ability to win fights and not how many styles one knows makes sense.

Oh I 100% agree with the strategy thing. It just seems like it always its going to go right back to Cap though.

Personally, I think Cap is more of a battle field, inspiration, "rah rah rah lets go troops!" type of leader while T'challa would be more of the "strategize the war, not the battle" type. He has to see MORE than what Cap could see but also isn't likely to galvanize the troops like Cap (outside of Wakandans)

So, in WW2 terms, Cap is more Patton. T'challa is more Eisenhower.

[Blind Wedjat]

Movie pretty much has.

Enhanced human
vibranium mesh
vibranium claws
energy absorption/redirection in suit
King
Warrior
Agile Fighting Style
Confident but not stark/strange arrogant


then for comics and such, top 10 genius.

comics need to fall in line and have an arc or 10 where it is just those things and nothing else.

I know we've talked in the past about standard abilities that should travel series to series no matter the writer, like other characters

Spidey -webshooters, spidey-sense, agility, bad luck

Cap -shield, h2h, never-say-die, inspirational

Thor -hammer, bull-in-a-china-shop, not a big brain

Reed -pull-anything out of his ass, always stretchy, family man, loves Sue

Tony -genius, jerk, armor, repulsors

T'Challa -this is where the argument that he's good at so many things hurt him. Besides vibranium/Wakanda, what else is he known for?

He needs to be the best at something, have a signature thing.


What top 3-4 things(not just tech) should he be known for that should travel series to series, whether solo, team of guest appearance?

My thinking revolved around stating things as detailed and specifically as possible, and trying to define T'Challa from there. Redefining and setting in stone his powers, abilities and gear and asking what all of that makes T'Challa.

I have ideas but they would be lengthy to type out here, but I came to the conclusion that T'Challa is above all a warrior, as opposed to say Captain America being a soldier.

I like warrior for different reasons:

- It connotes the idea of someone who constantly improves themselves and their abilities
- Warriors are typically associated in a tribal or clan based context
- The word is also typically used for fighters or combatants that have a more mythical, mystical or ritualistic aesthetic
- Strategy and sharpness of the mind feels more emphasised with the word (Sun Tzu's The Art of War) comes to mind
- It feels more ancient and gives off the idea of someone trained at a very young age
- Most superhero fighters aren't referred to warriors unless they're specifically meant to feel more tribal so it's unique.
- Warriors are known for have a code of conduct

I think T'Challa is a warrior that combines the traditional and the modern as the embodiment of Wakanda. His powers come from a plant that has been arguably scientifically mutated, but the belief system revolves around a blessing from a goddess. His fighting style is based on hand to hand, close quarters combat of ancient roots, but it is enhanced with high tech weapons (suit and claws, other tech). He is a warrior of both traditional and modern styles. You could also call him a warrior king.

I think this distinction is what would set him apart. If Wakandans are presented as the premiere warriors of Earth, then T'Challa is the best warrior on Earth. Best fighter is a little bit in there, but when you have Shang Chi and Iron Fist, it's a bit less unique. Best warrior combines that plus the strategy thing T'Challa was/is best known for. It sets him apart from the Avengers, and fellow royals like Namor, Black Bolt, Doom and Thor.

[FLEX HECTIC]

I have a great idea...


Since most if not all super heroes are defined by the villains that challenge them why not flesh out that struggling "Rogues Gallery" and make better antagonists!


Killmonger in the MCU became one of the best super villains ever and matched up well with T'challa in or outside of the heart shaped herb based powers!


A shiny red Lamborghini or your heavily modified import Fast and The Furious sports car is pointless without someone to race otherwise it's just for show in your driveway!


No more street level threats should come to Wakanda only super powered bad guys to showcase his potential under extreme fire!


The days of on the fly Radioshack tech and broken bottles 'OOPS' upside his head are dead up in da streets...





Point Man: "Black Panther... Significant Other/Love Interest... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period!"


1.3 Billion Dollars and Redjack's cartoon have spoken... Thanks for playing!

[XPac]

I was thinking that him being the leader of an entire nation should give him an edge over Cap for that, but also strategy is essentially the thing that was use to introduce him by taking out the F4. I think generally that was also used a lot by Priest, Hudlin and Liss, and also in the EMH cartoon (beating the Avengers).

But the best fighter thing also makes sense. T'Challa is one of the few Avengers to have been groomed from birth, born into a warrior culture, and has the skill, physical stats, mental discipline and gear to pretty much put him at the top. And I think best fighter being defined as the ability to win fights and not how many styles one knows makes sense.

DUring Infinity Steve started out the event with a room filled with rulers of entire Galactic Empires, and ended it being the guy in charge. It's just that "thing" that marvel sort of decided to give to him.

[MindofShadow]

I think this distinction is what would set him apart. If Wakandans are presented as the premiere warriors of Earth, then T'Challa is the best warrior on Earth. Best fighter is a little bit in there, but when you have Shang Chi and Iron Fist, it's a bit less unique. Best warrior combines that plus the strategy thing T'Challa was/is best known for. It sets him apart from the Avengers, and fellow royals like Namor, Black Bolt, Doom and Thor.

[Blind Wedjat]

Off topic: 12 Critic's Choice Award nominations for Black Panther

https://variety.com/2018/film/awards...st-1203085441/

[XPac]

My thinking revolved around stating things as detailed and specifically as possible, and trying to define T'Challa from there. Redefining and setting in stone his powers, abilities and gear and asking what all of that makes T'Challa.

I have ideas but they would be lengthy to type out here, but I came to the conclusion that T'Challa is above all a warrior, as opposed to say Captain America being a soldier.

I like warrior for different reasons:

- It connotes the idea of someone who constantly improves themselves and their abilities
- Warriors are typically associated in a tribal or clan based context
- The word is also typically used for fighters or combatants that have a more mythical, mystical or ritualistic aesthetic
- Strategy and sharpness of the mind feels more emphasised with the word (Sun Tzu's The Art of War) comes to mind
- It feels more ancient and gives off the idea of someone trained at a very young age
- Most superhero fighters aren't referred to warriors unless they're specifically meant to feel more tribal so it's unique.
- Warriors are known for have a code of conduct

I think T'Challa is a warrior that combines the traditional and the modern as the embodiment of Wakanda. His powers come from a plant that has been arguably scientifically mutated, but the belief system revolves around a blessing from a goddess. His fighting style is based on hand to hand, close quarters combat of ancient roots, but it is enhanced with high tech weapons (suit and claws, other tech). He is a warrior of both traditional and modern styles. You could also call him a warrior king.

I think this distinction is what would set him apart. If Wakandans are presented as the premiere warriors of Earth, then T'Challa is the best warrior on Earth. Best fighter is a little bit in there, but when you have Shang Chi and Iron Fist, it's a bit less unique. Best warrior combines that plus the strategy thing T'Challa was/is best known for. It sets him apart from the Avengers, and fellow royals like Namor, Black Bolt, Doom and Thor.

The Most Dangerous Man Alive tag line sort of achieved that effect. Shame that tag line didn't stick. It has a nice ring to it.

[FLEX HECTIC]

In the MMA era does Shang Chi and Iron Fist still apply?


With the popularity of Brazilian Ju Jitsu, the national sport of Thailand Muay Thai and various world champion gold medalist Greco-Roman wrestlers that seem to win cage fights every now and then is anyone still checking for Kung fu as much as they did in the past?


I have friends in all types of disciplines but if the outlaw motorcycle gang was to go on attack I'm calling the boys that elbow cats in the back of the head until their skulls warp before calling the "traditionalists" to show their stylish flexibility!


I don't need you flipping around off the walls and doing the Johnny Cage splits I need conformed kill shots and on to the next victim ASAP...





This is the era we live in now where a 2 billion dollar movie had everyone talking about the Hulk getting that work... There's no going back!


Black Panther needs to have adaptive protocols for anyone any time any where and a clear justification for why he wins and not because someone favors one martial arts skills over another especially when youtube features so many particular styles not being as effective as others!


"Most Dangerous Man Alive" was applied before 1.3 Billion Dollars so like Shadow Physics it can be reinstated just as sure as Killmonger became such an MCU hit!


Redjack applied some old school canon and ran straight to the bank with it it just needs that extra effort and tender loving care!


If you rebooted Doomwar today with the proper "Point Man" with a more decisive outcome it can work magnificently... Just lose the speeches and pyrrhic victories and go cash a fat check!


Making Black Panther anybody's BEYOTCH before the 1.3 Billion Dollar mark was the in thing but today you would look foolish taking food out of your own belly to appease yesteryears agenda!

[DigiCom]

I tend to hold the opinion that heroes who have a certain "hat" should get the nod when it comes to ranking thaat skill.

For example, Hawkeye's "hat" is that he's a superhero archer. Therefore, I think it only fair that he ranks at the top of the archers in the MU, even though there are folks out there like DD or Elektra who could conceivably have archery skills because of their Japanese martial arts training.

Similarly, folks like Shang-Chi or Iron Fist should rank higher than more generalist heroes, because that's their "hat".

Now, T'Challa's "hat", IMO, is that he's the greatest strategist among the heroes. He excels at long-term planning, while Cap is more a short-term tactician.

(It's the difference, you might say, between a general and a sergeant. )

[Mike_Murdock]

I think it is fine now that Black Panther is in the "Big Leagues", On rumbles board I like to make fun that this Avenger teams has gotten beat down from Sentry,Hulk and Namor but those are heavy hitters. I expect as leader of the Avengers he will run into Thanos,Graviton, Celestials, Galactus, Dr Doom, etc. The suit is thing that makes you never think twice does he belong here in scenarios.

I mean, would you say Captain America is in the big leagues? If so, a supersuit isn't necessary to be in the big leagues.

The vibranium suit is there to show the tech side though. Limited teleportation, energy daggers, cloaking abilities.

You need to show equal tech and equal skill.

Sure, that's why I said that I get why it's there. It makes all the sense in the world to have it, but it still loses some coolness by taking away from his natural ability.

I think that be pretty difficult to do from a writing stand point. Once someone opens the box to a weakness in vibranium there really is no going back. It's no longer this impenetrable metal but instead it devolves into a internet meme.

I agree with that. It's going to be Kryptonite if you create a weakness, which is something Marvel's avoided for the most part.

[Cville]

I tend to hold the opinion that heroes who have a certain "hat" should get the nod when it comes to ranking thaat skill.

For example, Hawkeye's "hat" is that he's a superhero archer. Therefore, I think it only fair that he ranks at the top of the archers in the MU, even though there are folks out there like DD or Elektra who could conceivably have archery skills because of their Japanese martial arts training.

Similarly, folks like Shang-Chi or Iron Fist should rank higher than more generalist heroes, because that's their "hat".

Now, T'Challa's "hat", IMO, is that he's the greatest strategist among the heroes. He excels at long-term planning, while Cap is more a short-term tactician.

(It's the difference, you might say, between a general and a sergeant. )

Would Lelouch ViBritannia be an accurate comparison to strategist?