T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[MindofShadow]

M'Baku was almost sort of an anti-hero in Priests run. I don't think it would make much at all to make M'Baku at least a neutral character. Arguably in recent years he's only been potrayed as a flat out villain outside the BP book. If other books just stop using as some random warm body when they want a mob of villains, I think he can be very usable as an occasional ally. They can maybe even do an Xavier/Magneto thing with them.

BP mythos would be better off if they just told all other mythos snd editors to fucking stop.

You dont get mbaku anymore for background villains for hire

U dont get klaw anymore

No more vibranium randomly showing uo

No more wksndan schools taking in peeps

BP mythos need to isolate and get selfish

[XPac]

BP mythos would be better off if they just told all other mythos snd editors to fucking stop.

You dont get mbaku anymore for background villains for hire

U dont get klaw anymore

No more vibranium randomly showing uo

No more wksndan schools taking in peeps

BP mythos need to isolate and get selfish

The flip side is that plenty of the people on this board have argued some of BP's best showings were outside the BP book.

When you become an A lister, you get used. See Wolverine and Spider-Man. Isolation likely just isn't in the cards.

[FLEX HECTIC]

What the Black Panther needs to do is travel a bit up north and do a crossover team up with Aladdin!


Bast should be replaced by a Genie that actually shows up for work and chips in properly!

[Rumble]

BP mythos would be better off if they just told all other mythos snd editors to fucking stop.

You dont get mbaku anymore for background villains for hire

U dont get klaw anymore

No more vibranium randomly showing uo

No more wksndan schools taking in peeps

BP mythos need to isolate and get selfish

True to an extent. Part of it is also getting current creators to invest in the mytho characters instead of bringing in characters from outside mthos to play a bigger role than the mytho ones.

After all, the biggest reason for BP 1's success was that it was inherently selfish. A self-contained, personal story. We wouldn't have had Okoye, Nakia, M'Baku, and Erik as the public adores them now if these mainstream (see: youtube) comic book "analysts" got what they proposed was necessary in shoe-shoring Cap, Ironman, Bucky, and Infinity War tie-ins into BP 1.

Hell, a lot of them didn't seem to learn their lesson, even long after the fact. i.e. You hear a lot of noise about how BP 2 should have Namor, or Dr. Doom, or that Kenyan woman. However, what BP 2 should do is continue cultivating and modernizing it's mytho characters and villains, just like BP 1 did.

At this point, in the comics, i imagine they are going to leave the mytho characters alone unless it is a satelite book. Has M'Baku appeared in anything since Baron Macabre ressurected him in that satelite book that i'm not sure is canon?

[Rumble]

There's really no reason a modernized Baron Macabre, Princess Zanda, Solomon Prey, or even Tetu and Zenzi couldn't have the same mainstream appeal as a Michael Morbius, Black Cat, Lizard/Vulture, or any guy/girl villain duo. The only difference is that the former didn't have the kinda crappy in retrospect but still very nostalgic 90s fox cartoon among other media outlights for exposure.

Nobody would've thought 2 hours of Killmonger would elevate him past the 8 years Loki had as a villain, and yet now Killmonger is often argued as being the #2 MCU big bad behind only the purple man.

Put any of those aforementioned BP characters in BP 2 and they will be cemented in mainstream and black twitter forever, like Okoye and Killmonger

[Mike_Murdock]

Whether you like Coates run or not, I do expect Tetu and Zenzi to be used later. They're visually distinct characters with a developed backstory and an interesting power set. I feel like most of Killmonger's supporting cast has no chance of appearing again and at least some of them are dead, though.

[MindofShadow]

The flip side is that plenty of the people on this board have argued some of BP's best showings were outside the BP book.

When you become an A lister, you get used. See Wolverine and Spider-Man. Isolation likely just isn't in the cards.

I wasn't speaking about BP himself. Moreso his supporting cast and rogues.

Sabertooth doesn't show up in Ant-Man to get knocked out in a side panel for instance.

Until the mythos are able to build up BP's own rogues to respectability, they need to stop being used.

At this point, in the comics, i imagine they are going to leave the mytho characters alone unless it is a satelite book. Has M'Baku appeared in anything since Baron Macabre ressurected him in that satelite book that i'm not sure is canon?

You mean when M'baku was resurrected when he wasn't even dead....

What do editors do again lol?

There's really no reason a modernized Baron Macabre, Princess Zanda, Solomon Prey, or even Tetu and Zenzi couldn't have the same mainstream appeal as a Michael Morbius, Black Cat, Lizard/Vulture, or any guy/girl villain duo. The only difference is that the former didn't have the kinda crappy in retrospect but still very nostalgic 90s fox cartoon among other media outlights for exposure.

Nobody would've thought 2 hours of Killmonger would elevate him past the 8 years Loki had as a villain, and yet now Killmonger is often argued as being the #2 MCU big bad behind only the purple man.

Put any of those aforementioned BP characters in BP 2 and they will be cemented in mainstream and black twitter forever, like Okoye and Killmonger

Yeppers.

The thing is, people like Baron have been used so sparingly that they can easily be updated. Someone just has to put in the effort and care a little bit.

Instead, we have a writer who uses D list nobodies like Stane and Fenris.

Whether you like Coates run or not, I do expect Tetu and Zenzi to be used later. They're visually distinct characters with a developed backstory and an interesting power set. I feel like most of Killmonger's supporting cast has no chance of appearing again and at least some of them are dead, though.

I think a lot of us know that.

Tetu and Zenzi work on a visual level, power level, and revolutionary types if that is the way coogler wants to go.

Coates just didn't add any depth to them beyond that and also made their powers inconsistent and borderline **** lol.

I could easily see Achebe being combined with Tetu in the MCU if they wanted to go that "Wakandan pissed about opening up" route.

[MindofShadow]

Question for the Fans...

How do you handle retcons in your head canon?

If one story brings up something... does it completely wipe out the original story? Does it only wipe out the aspects that are explicitely stated? How do you make it work in your head?

To use an example, T'challa's "becoming black panther" origin.

we have gotten four different variations from memory

- Avengers 87
- Kirby
- Hudlin
- Rise


So, Rise is the most recent one. Does that story, for you, completely wipe out the previous three stories? Or does it only wipe out aspects it 100% showed?

So, for example, I do not believe Rise showed shuri at all at the annual fight. Do you still consider shuri to be at the fight wanting to jump in?

Avengers 87 showed completely different stuff as it showed more of the "fight warriors, find herb, ect". Is THAT story still canon for the different stuff it showed? Including the fight with those goons at the end?

Thoughts?

[XPac]

BP mythos would be better off if they just told all other mythos snd editors to fucking stop.

You dont get mbaku anymore for background villains for hire

U dont get klaw anymore

No more vibranium randomly showing uo

No more wksndan schools taking in peeps

BP mythos need to isolate and get selfish

Klaw and vbranium are probably lost causes in this regard. At this point Klaw is probably more associated with the FF and Avengers than BP, given he's been used for decades when BP didn't have a book. And vibranium is pretty much out there (Doom War could have been a way to put that genie back in the bottle had the whole vibranium thing not essentially been ignored).

But M'Baku at least has a shot at legit shot and being reclaimed and isolated back to the BP mythos. He hasn't been used all that much outside the BP books, and when he has it was mostly as a warm body in a crowd. The movie might have raised his profile enough to make him matter enough not just make him a part of the crowd.

[XPac]

Question for the Fans...

How do you handle retcons in your head canon?

If one story brings up something... does it completely wipe out the original story? Does it only wipe out the aspects that are explicitely stated? How do you make it work in your head?

To use an example, T'challa's "becoming black panther" origin.

we have gotten four different variations from memory

- Avengers 87
- Kirby
- Hudlin
- Rise


So, Rise is the most recent one. Does that story, for you, completely wipe out the previous three stories? Or does it only wipe out aspects it 100% showed?

So, for example, I do not believe Rise showed shuri at all at the annual fight. Do you still consider shuri to be at the fight wanting to jump in?

Avengers 87 showed completely different stuff as it showed more of the "fight warriors, find herb, ect". Is THAT story still canon for the different stuff it showed? Including the fight with those goons at the end?

Thoughts?

Generally speaking, if something is previously established as canon on panel, then it's only no longer canon if something specifically shows that it's not canon anymore. For me at least. So I TRY and make everything fit until it absolutely can't. If something theoretically can happen, even if it's not shown, I'll still count it as long as it doesn't actually conflict with the new continuity.

Hudlin stuff is a somewhat different matter because of how messy that was handled as far as it being canon or not. But something occurring in 616 Avengers or whatever needs to be flat out reconned on panel in order to not be canon anymore.

[Rumble]

I think a lot of us know that.

Tetu and Zenzi work on a visual level, power level, and revolutionary types if that is the way coogler wants to go.

Coates just didn't add any depth to them beyond that and also made their powers inconsistent and borderline **** lol.

I could easily see Achebe being combined with Tetu in the MCU if they wanted to go that "Wakandan pissed about opening up" route.

If folks paid attention to what was said on here during year 1 of Coates, a number of people actually liked Zenzi. The one and only good story in these dora books was the tangent Zenzi short story that whatsherface wrote. Zenzi is essentially the MCU Scarlet Witch of the BP mytho, but with an arguably more f'd up back story surrounding how she was experimented on.

The same way spider-man creates his own catwoman (black cat), and his own line of batgirls (gwen), robins (miles), etc instead of relying on other mytho's characters.. Black Panther essentially has his own scarlet witch/emma frost/jean grey now.. if they could ever settle on what her power set actually is.

[Rumble]

Zenzi's powerset according to Marvel Wiki

Powers

Empathic Enliftment/Manipulation: Zenzi possesses the ability to read and control the emotions of others on a large scale. She is able to lift the emotional veil and reveal their deeper, truer selves and bring it to the surface.[3] She can also use her powers to push the limits of the human body, allowing the soldiers of the People under her influence to march day and night without rest.[11] At their maximum potential, Zenzi's powers are capable of turning people into mindless beasts with enhanced speed, strength and durability.[7]

This is what they define Empathic Enliftment/Manipulation as

The psionic ability to sense, control, alter and manipulate the feelings, sensations and emotions of other people psionically. Individuals with this ability are sometimes called empaths.

Known Empaths:

• Empath
• Abyss
• Jean Grey
• Emma Frost
• Mastermind

I dunno what all this long winded 'empathic enliftment manipulatin hocus pocus' jargon is all about... just label the evil heffa a telepath and call it a day

[MindofShadow]

Zenzi's powerset according to Marvel Wiki



This is what they define Empathic Enliftment/Manipulation as



I dunno what all this long winded 'empathic enliftment manipulatin hocus pocus' jargon is all about... just label the evil heffa a telepath and call it a day

Yeah, what turned into easy explanation of an "empath" turned into "well ****, lets just make up **** now" lol

She's now essentially a minor telepath that can turn people into Uruk Hai temporarily lol

Coates needs work on his comic book powers. It was downright bad in Season 1. He has gotten better at that as time as moved along.

[Rumble]

Yeah, what turned into easy explanation of an "empath" turned into "well ****, lets just make up **** now" lol

She's now essentially a minor telepath that can turn people into Uruk Hai temporarily lol

Coates needs work on his comic book powers. It was downright bad in Season 1. He has gotten better at that as time as moved along.

She should've been major but they dropped the ball bad. They'd rather shoe-horn some z-list faustus and give him those emma frost level-feats (secret empire) than have Wakanda get got by a Wakandan/Nigandan villain. Figures.

They honestly could've just labeled her a magic-using witch and saved us the terrible explanations.

[MindofShadow]

She should've been major but they dropped the ball bad. They'd rather shoe-horn some z-list faustus and give him those emma frost level-feats (secret empire) than have Wakanda get got by a Wakandan/Nigandan villain. Figures.

They honestly could've just labeled her a magic-using witch and saved us the terrible explanations.

Coates initially had T'challa basically be regular human with a force push suit and then went and wrote the villains DOWN to that level. So you had Zenzi be a kinda empath but only negative emotions and Tetu taking 20 minutes to manipulate tree roots and then got knocked out of the "final boss fight" by a single spear.

He had zero rumble board mentality and it showed bad in season 1.