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  1. #3541
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    One of them isn't the full team but the others are... but you didn't mention the JLA covers which is interesting.

    I also think that your idea of a team book is somewhat flawed. But I blame that on how Marvel has been writing them lately. A team book should be the place where you get to see you favorite heroes interact as a TEAM. No one character regardless of role should outshine the other. But lately, mostly in the X-Books, the Leader has been written as the leader singer in a band while the everyone else is their backup dancers. (It's a wonder why Marvel keeps questioning their decreasing sales each year when the answer is staring them in the face so often)

    Anyway, in a team setting the covers are just to show the group or members of said group looking cool so the company can peak interest and sell books. There is a multitude of comics where the leader is not front an center. This should not be an ongoing debate.

    More examples :



    The leader at the time is not in the center of any of these either.



    Yeah, Cap barely did anything in that book. He had a solid arch but that was mostly due to the writers way of crafty the story. By enlarge Captain America was forgettable in that story.

    But yeah whatever is going to sell books and looks cool is going to be on the cover. A man in bright red and blue colors tends to be eye grabby which is partially what this fuss may be all about.
    I ignored the the dc covers because the first is before the team is officially formed if I remember correctly. The second says JL/Aquaman so the cover is accurate with putting him up front. The third doesn't look like a full tea m cover

  2. #3542
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Last ones....





    I could keep posting these but I hope you get the idea. The leader is not always in the center of the comic. Good artist will mix it up a bit and do whatever looks cool to sell books.
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  3. #3543
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Team leaders cannot always be at the forefront of team shots because that restricts the composition of panels and covers. This would be bad because artists have to draw the whole team a lot. T'Challa is at the forefront of the cover of #12 of Avengers in January. Every character on the team, including the guests, will be the focus of a cover at some point or another. That's just how it goes to get us readers more interesting images.

  4. #3544
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    I ignored the the dc covers because the first is before the team is officially formed if I remember correctly. The second says JL/Aquaman so the cover is accurate with putting him up front. The third doesn't look like a full tea m cover



    What about these then:




    Cover placement doesn't mean much of anything. Again, only reason why I'm bring this up is due to it seeming as if this current conversation is going on longer then need be over something small. (At least to me)

    Just to note T'Challa has been in the center or at least really close to it 4 out of the nine covers so far. Thats pretty much half... I have been sitting back for awhile now just wondering how this conversation is even a thing.
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  5. #3545
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    Team leaders cannot always be at the forefront of team shots because that restricts the composition of panels and covers. This would be bad because artists have to draw the whole team a lot. T'Challa is at the forefront of the cover of #12 of Avengers in January. Every character on the team, including the guests, will be the focus of a cover at some point or another. That's just how it goes to get us readers more interesting images.
    He's the only Avenger on the cover. Lol. One would hope the only member of the team represented would get a center stage shot.

  6. #3546
    Invincible Member XPac's Avatar
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    Really there are a lot of reasons a particular character might be the focal point of a cover.

    It COULD be because he's the team leader. Or it COULD be because that particular character is focused on in the story. Or it COULD be because that character is a cash cow, and being on the cover helps to sell books. Or it COULD be some combination of all of the above or none of the above. It's hard to say until we see the story.

    Point being though that being in front doesn't necessarily mean a person is the team leader. It's not an invalid assumption to make, but doesn't happen frequently enough to also say it's not a given.

  7. #3547
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post



    What about these then:




    Cover placement doesn't mean much of anything. Again, only reason why I'm bring this up is due to it seeming as if this current conversation is going on longer then need be over something small. (At least to me)

    Just to note T'Challa has been in the center or at least really close to it 4 out of the nine covers so far. Thats pretty much half... I have been sitting back for awhile now just wondering how this conversation is even a thing.
    If you didn't want the convo to continue than why reply to my post? It must be a thing of you feel the need to defend it.
    Last edited by Cville; 11-10-2018 at 05:17 PM.

  8. #3548

    Lightbulb We are Black Panther fans

    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post

    Cover placement doesn't mean much of anything. Again, only reason why I'm bring this up is due to it seeming as if this current conversation is going on longer then need be over something small. (At least to me)

    Just to note T'Challa has been in the center or at least really close to it 4 out of the nine covers so far. Thats pretty much half... I have been sitting back for awhile now just wondering how this conversation is even a thing.
    DragonsChi it's a "thing" because this is the Black Panther Appreciation thread and as such want to see Black Panther showcased as much as possible.

    I've been reading comics since the early 70's so I know all about comic covers and there is no reason T'Challa couldn't have been in the center of that picture.

    If you don't care, good for you, but obviously some people DO care.


    Excelsior!

    Daoud

  9. #3549
    Astonishing Member DragonsChi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    If you didn't want the convo to continue than why reply to my post? It must be a thing of you feel the need to defend it.
    No, just wanted to prove to you that there was no malice intent in the covers. Believe me if I thought they where you I would be talking about it to. Probably to the point of annoyance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daoud View Post
    DragonsChi it's a "thing" because this is the Black Panther Appreciation thread and as such want to see Black Panther showcased as much as possible.

    I've been reading comics since the early 70's so I know all about comic covers and there is no reason T'Challa couldn't have been in the center of that picture.

    If you don't care, good for you, but obviously some people DO care.


    Excelsior!

    Daoud
    No worries.

    Think my point has been made. I leave this discussion on this ... if you turn nothing into something when the time comes that something needs defending no one will listen. It's sorta like the boy who cried wolf.

    I'm glad that T'Challa is being at least used decently in Avengers. His own title needs a lot of work. But on the other hand he is getting his own cartoon which none of the other Avengers are getting so I'm not really all that worried about a run of Avengers that doesn't seem like it will be one for the Avengers greats/to be remembered.
    Last edited by DragonsChi; 11-10-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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  10. #3550
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    He's the only Avenger on the cover. Lol. One would hope the only member of the team represented would get a center stage shot.
    The point of that cover is to show off the new Wakandan agents, and it includes Odin, the god of a pantheon, and Janet, founding Avenger and senior leader. If the argument is that something as arbitrary as cover placement actually matters, then you can't really ask for better than this. Isn't him being the only main Avenger on an Avengers cover good? That he's such hot stuff that the book can have a cover with just him? I'd be really happy if D-Man got more focus on a cover also featuring God.

  11. #3551
    Astonishing Member Cville's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snoop Dogg View Post
    The point of that cover is to show off the new Wakandan agents, and it includes Odin, the god of a pantheon, and Janet, founding Avenger and senior leader. If the argument is that something as arbitrary as cover placement actually matters, then you can't really ask for better than this. Isn't him being the only main Avenger on an Avengers cover good? That he's such hot stuff that the book can have a cover with just him? I'd be really happy if D-Man got more focus on a cover also featuring God.
    My original post was about the full team on the cover with Cap being made to look like the leader. If Tchalla is the only one is doesn't matter.

  12. #3552
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Okay... but arguing they aren't treating Black Panther like they are treating Spider-Man and Wolverine (even though both Spider-Man and Wolverine have both historically both being used to try and promote other characters like Miles, X23, Old Man Logan, Superior Spider-Man, Spider Gwen, Scarlet Spider, etc), isn't the same thing as believing that black characters don't sell.
    One major difference in a lot of those folks versus what we got in Panther.

    Miles starred in his own book WITHOUT Peter Parker needing to show up in it. Aside from Spider-Men and Miles's second series.
    X-23 started in NYX and had her OWN mini before she took over for Daddy Logan.

    Peter nor Logan nor Barry nor Clark nor Bruce nor Aquaman nor Hal nor Tony nor Steve starred in a book bearing their names and took a backseat. A backseat where their books were being used to be stealth solos for others.
    Nor employing writers who HATED them.

    Batman has never been a book where he takes a backseat and get badly written while Duke (and YES he was accused of this), Dick, Damian, Catwoman, Jason, Tim, Babs, Cassandra, Stephanie & Harley got the good witting.
    Superman never took a backseat for any of the Supergirls, Superboys, Steel, Cliff Ellis, Val Superman, Powergirl or his WIFE.
    Tony when he was not drunk or dead-took a backseat for War Machine, Riri or Doom.
    All of Peter's kinfolks got ongoings or minis-they NEVER took over his book with him starring in it.
    Deadpool never took a backseat to Solo, Slapstick nor Foolkiller in his OWN book.

    ALL OF THEM had to stand on their own in a book bearing their NAME.
    Cho Hulk, She Hulk, Spider-Women, Thunderstrike, War Machine and so on-had to stand on their OWN.

    MOON GIRL had to stand on her own. Not take over an Inhuman book.
    Mosaic had to stand on HIS own.

  13. #3553

    Unhappy Cville, you right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cville View Post
    My original post was about the full team on the cover with Cap being made to look like the leader. If Tchalla is the only one is doesn't matter.
    Cville, your questioning of the cover is correct.

    There is NO good reason why Black Panther couldn't have been at the center of that picture.

    People acting like they brand new.

    Now I'm feeling like Goku2000.


    Excelsior!

    Daoud

  14. #3554
    Extraordinary Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonsChi View Post
    I understand, I did read those but the root (or start) of the issue is the cover. Right now Aaron is writing the Avengers as simple pieces to be moved about when necessary. No one character seems (at least to me) be taking precedence as someone being more or less in charge of the group. T'Challa is currently the chairman of the Avenger's. Historically, that meant the person holds meetings, makes final call's in discussions that have gotten out of hand within the group, put things up to vote and so on. It also tends to mean that in the field they do take some lead but that is at times spread amongst other members of the group. This has been true even when Captain America was the chairman of the group. If Iron Man, Hawkeye, and I do believe even T'Challa had a solid plan or suggestion on what to do in a situation Captain America went along with it. So far that seems to be the case...

    I know I do not comment often but I am always reading this thread. The current topic just seemed a little odd for how long it has been going on for.
    Technically it started with MK knights issue 1 and red

  15. #3555
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    2 words for you brotha....Blue Marvel! With every chance to do big things with him they pull Sentry out and gave him a series.
    Blue Marvel even with the bigger name (outside of comics creator) gets shafted for Sentry. I guess cowritiing Underworld and selling a script that got made into a movie means nothing.

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