T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Marvell2100]

It should take any lengthy amount of time for that level of creative interest to be generated.

Cats of all ages just need to stay actualising their dreams and stop settling for milquetoast self imposed mental limitations.

Agree with this.

Stay out of the tired, overused tropes that Hollywood uses to put most Black people in.

[DigiCom]

I don't disagree... but at the same time I honestly do feel the stories are adversely effected if the villains arent' credible threats to the hero. I think for this genre, a sense of peril should be a part of the story telling. And having villains who are as powerful or even more powerful I think is just sensible in ones rogues gallery. IMO at least.

Counter-example:



Indeed, some of the greatest foes are the ones the hero can't simply punch into submission.

[Mr MajestiK]

Counter-example:



Indeed, some of the greatest foes are the ones the hero can't simply punch into submission.

A good example of the type of multi layered storytelling writers like Priest brought to the equation with little to no fanfare only for neophyte such as Coates to come along with their redundant and wholly unoriginal material masquerading as high literature.

[Ezyo1000]

I look at what Frank Miller did with Daredevil in Born Again.

It wasn't a Daredevil story. It was a Matt Murdock story. Daredevil didn't throw a single punch at Kingpin.

He didn't radically change Matt Murdock.

Keep the foundations in place. You can change the pieces around the character but you don't change the character.

Similar to what David Liss did.

This is good. Liss is the perfect example of how you solve and handle a **** hand. Same Tchalla without all his tech yet still the most dangerous man alive. If anything his run sealed that truth more because he was RadioShack panther and yet he completely outsmarted and entirely beat king pin.. that's what people want. That's why rise did well. T'Challa kicking ass and being he awesome regal self. Not amature pretentious flowerly prose

[XPac]

Counter-example:



Indeed, some of the greatest foes are the ones the hero can't simply punch into submission.

And I don't disagree with you. You can tell great comic stories without heroes punching bad guys into submission.

But at the same time, I don't think that means a characters rogues gallery shouldn't have villains who are legitimate physical threats to the hero tooId. I think having a character like Achebe is great addition... but I wouldn't want BP's rogues gallery to be filled with nothing but Achebes.

I think the point being that a good healthy rogues gallery with real depth to it should have a variety of different types of characters who challenge the character in different ways. Including a few guys who can flat out challenge the hero in a fight in an equal or even superior footing. And that's something which IMO BP could use a little more of.

Ideally we can have guys like Achebe AND guys like KLaw, and everything in between. The point of a rogues gallery IMO is to different characters with different power levels and motivations, so you can tell different sort of stories.

[FLEX HECTIC]

With the portrayal of Killmonger in the movie the floodgates should be opened now for more diabolical black villains!


I think some previous writers were apprehensive about depictions of potential black villains whereas white male villains are a dime a dozen going on decades of canon and continuity!


You take a performance like Denzel Washington in Training Day and upgrade him to international vibranium arms dealer and the gloves can come off!


Wesley Snipes as Nino Brown upgraded to Wakandan crime boss and raise the stakes to match the hero or overmatch the hero!


What has to happen in black sci-fi is the every other day standard issue black male thug should be ditched for a more international or intergalactic threat with all the right nuances and intellect!


Imagine if Samuel Jackson as Mace Windu in Star Wars became what Count Dooku did in turning to the dark side!


One of the reasons black super heroes don't sell well historically is that a lack of major black villains don't make the challenge worth a good read or a good cinematic watch!


When Hickman made the Black Swan (a Majestic favorite ) it would have been much cooler if she was black woman that could always come back and get in the mix like a true villainess/love interest!


In fact there should be a line of black female villains out of the blue trying to either seduce, blackmail or technologically stalk a bachelor king of the wealthiest hidden nation!


Just as the Black Order is a relatively new super villain group that made it's way into the biggest selling super hero movie of all time there should be newer villains exclusive to the Black Panther franchise as well as updates on Princess Zonda, Moses Magnun or Achebe to the new standard!


Get a book of African names and make stuff up as you go along... Don't be shy!

[Mr MajestiK]

With the portrayal of Killmonger in the movie the floodgates should be opened now for more diabolical black villains!


I think some previous writers were apprehensive about depictions of potential black villains whereas white male villains are a dime a dozen going on decades of canon and continuity!


You take a performance like Denzel Washington in Training Day and upgrade him to international vibranium arms dealer and the gloves can come off!


Wesley Snipes as Nino Brown upgraded to Wakandan crime boss and raise the stakes to match the hero or overmatch the hero!


What has to happen in black sci-fi is the every other day standard issue black male thug should be ditched for a more international or intergalactic threat with all the right nuances and intellect!


Imagine if Samuel Jackson as Mace Windu in Star Wars became what Count Dooku did in turning to the dark side!


One of the reasons black super heroes don't sell well historically is that a lack of major black villains don't make the challenge worth a good read or a good cinematic watch!


When Hickman made the Black Swan (a Majestic favorite ) it would have been much cooler if she was black woman that could always come back and get in the mix like a true villainess/love interest!


In fact there should be a line of black female villains out of the blue trying to either seduce, blackmail or technologically stalk a bachelor king of the wealthiest hidden nation!


Just as the Black Order is a relatively new super villain group that made it's way into the biggest selling super hero movie of all time there should be newer villains exclusive to the Black Panther franchise as well as updates on Princess Zonda, Moses Magnun or Achebe to the new standard!


Get a book of African names and make stuff up as you go along... Don't be shy!

Nightshade would have been perfect.

[Mr MajestiK]

With the portrayal of Killmonger in the movie the floodgates should be opened now for more diabolical black villains!


I think some previous writers were apprehensive about depictions of potential black villains whereas white male villains are a dime a dozen going on decades of canon and continuity!


You take a performance like Denzel Washington in Training Day and upgrade him to international vibranium arms dealer and the gloves can come off!


Wesley Snipes as Nino Brown upgraded to Wakandan crime boss and raise the stakes to match the hero or overmatch the hero!


What has to happen in black sci-fi is the every other day standard issue black male thug should be ditched for a more international or intergalactic threat with all the right nuances and intellect!


Imagine if Samuel Jackson as Mace Windu in Star Wars became what Count Dooku did in turning to the dark side!


One of the reasons black super heroes don't sell well historically is that a lack of major black villains don't make the challenge worth a good read or a good cinematic watch!


When Hickman made the Black Swan (a Majestic favorite ) it would have been much cooler if she was black woman that could always come back and get in the mix like a true villainess/love interest!


In fact there should be a line of black female villains out of the blue trying to either seduce, blackmail or technologically stalk a bachelor king of the wealthiest hidden nation!


Just as the Black Order is a relatively new super villain group that made it's way into the biggest selling super hero movie of all time there should be newer villains exclusive to the Black Panther franchise as well as updates on Princess Zonda, Moses Magnun or Achebe to the new standard!


Get a book of African names and make stuff up as you go along... Don't be shy!

Nightshade would have been perfect.

[Mr MajestiK]

A few pages back, MoS mentioned the Ultimates and how T'challa was ill served by being part of a team comprised of supposedly "C-list characters" and it got me thinking about a few things.

Back when I first start reading comic books, the concept of gradiing characters in some arbitrary and highly subjective hierarchy of importance, definitely wasn't a thing.

Characters were created and able writers crafted solid tales around them that in turn, stimulated the interest of a myriad of readers.

In many ways, it can even be argued that the books were a lot more diverse and chance taking more so than they are today.

Writers like Al Ewing hearken back to a time where writers truly understood what it meant to respect continuity, proper characterisation and solid pacing and they sure as hell didn't subscribe to the kind of subjectiveness that's led to the current stagnation that plagues much of the mainstream comic book industry.

In the wake of the Black Panther blockbuster movies overwhelming success, some seem to have forgotten that T'challa was often times referred to by detractors as being "C-list" too.

[Mr MajestiK]

A few pages back, MoS mentioned the Ultimates and how T'challa was ill served by being part of a team comprised of supposedly "C-list characters" and it got me thinking about a few things.

Back when I first start reading comic books, the concept of gradiing characters in some arbitrary and highly subjective hierarchy of importance, definitely wasn't a thing.

Characters were created and able writers crafted solid tales around them that in turn, stimulated the interest of a myriad of readers.

In many ways, it can even be argued that the books were a lot more diverse and chance taking more so than they are today.

Writers like Al Ewing hearken back to a time where writers truly understood what it meant to respect continuity, proper characterisation and solid pacing and they sure as hell didn't subscribe to the kind of subjectiveness that's led to the current stagnation that plagues much of the mainstream comic book industry.

In the wake of the Black Panther blockbuster movies overwhelming success, some seem to have forgotten that T'challa was often times referred to by detractors as being "C-list" too.

[MindofShadow]

A few pages back, MoS mentioned the Ultimates and how T'challa was ill served by being part of a team comprised of supposedly "C-list characters" and it got me thinking about a few things.

Back when I first start reading comic books, the concept of gradiing characters in some arbitrary and highly subjective hierarchy of importance, definitely wasn't a thing.

Characters were created and able writers crafted solid tales around them that in turn, stimulated the interest of a myriad of readers.

In many ways, it can even be argued that the books were a lot more diverse and chance taking more so than they are today.

Writers like Al Ewing hearken back to a time where writers truly understood what it meant to respect continuity, proper characterisation and solid pacing and they sure as hell didn't subscribe to the kind of subjectiveness that's led to the current stagnation that plagues much of the mainstream comic book industry.

In the wake of the Black Panther blockbuster movies overwhelming success, some seem to have forgotten that T'challa was often times referred to by detractors as being "C-list" too.

I love this revisionist history with Ewing going on here.

90% of the issues, people in here complained about:

- book being boring as hell
- book being a stealth Galactus solo
- book lacking focus because of events
- people sitting around talking and lecturing and not doing anything
- monica and adam relationship getting nowhere
- random team of government nobodies getting panel time
- T'challa threatening people and not backing it up
- wakanda red shirts getting red shirted again
- severe downgrade in art once rocafort left

Ewing squandered an interesting premise, big name (Ultimates title is a big deal), and Rocafort art with a book that lost, unfocused story that delivered nothing that was promised until the very last issue.

And I ain't forgotten anything which is why I don't need T'challa saddled with having to drag up the sales of D listers in the Ultimates, his name used to try and drag up sales for nobodies like the MA, and his name used to drag up a stealth Misty Knight solo.

This "use T'challa to help everyone!" thinking is what lead to all that comic momentum squandered and T'challa tumbling down the sales chart.

I am 100% T'challa selfish and I have no problem stating that

[MindofShadow]

Counter-example:



Indeed, some of the greatest foes are the ones the hero can't simply punch into submission.

A chance to get a more cerbral, preppy MCU Black Panther would be for him ot go against MCU Achebe... someone he is going to have to outsmart instead of out punch.

Not 100% how you pull something like that off (I can't think of any comic book movie examples off the top of my head but im tired lol) but yeh

Priest's use of Achebe may be the reason no one has brought him back since... no one else can or wants to follow Priest's use of him. It's too good.

I think the chance to use Achebe could have been in replacement of Tetu or Stane tbh. The hidden figure driving the revolution. Achebe wins either way... either he causes a revolution or he causes T'challa to suffer and Wakanda burn. Win Win.

[MindofShadow]

Stuntmen rehearsing BP fight choreography

looks like the final battle scene

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmTerETA..._web_copy_link

[Mr MajestiK]

I love this revisionist history with Ewing going on here.

90% of the issues, people in here complained about:

- book being boring as hell
- book being a stealth Galactus solo
- book lacking focus because of events
- people sitting around talking and lecturing and not doing anything
- monica and adam relationship getting nowhere
- random team of government nobodies getting panel time
- T'challa threatening people and not backing it up
- wakanda red shirts getting red shirted again
- severe downgrade in art once rocafort left

Ewing squandered an interesting premise, big name (Ultimates title is a big deal), and Rocafort art with a book that lost, unfocused story that delivered nothing that was promised until the very last issue.

And I ain't forgotten anything which is why I don't need T'challa saddled with having to drag up the sales of D listers in the Ultimates, his name used to try and drag up sales for nobodies like the MA, and his name used to drag up a stealth Misty Knight solo.

This "use T'challa to help everyone!" thinking is what lead to all that comic momentum squandered and T'challa tumbling down the sales chart.

I am 100% T'challa selfish and I have no problem stating that

I was referencing Ewing's full body of Ultimates material going back to the close of Hickman's Secret Wars.

I've never been one to subscribe to this alphabet list way of judging characters but hey, go at it bruv.

I'm not sure what your supposedly being "100% selfish about T"'Challa" has to do with anything though?

I' d assume that most posters frequenting this thread, are pretty enthusiastic about his character too.

[XPac]

I love this revisionist history with Ewing going on here.

90% of the issues, people in here complained about:

- book being boring as hell
- book being a stealth Galactus solo
- book lacking focus because of events
- people sitting around talking and lecturing and not doing anything
- monica and adam relationship getting nowhere
- random team of government nobodies getting panel time
- T'challa threatening people and not backing it up
- wakanda red shirts getting red shirted again
- severe downgrade in art once rocafort left

Ewing squandered an interesting premise, big name (Ultimates title is a big deal), and Rocafort art with a book that lost, unfocused story that delivered nothing that was promised until the very last issue.

And I ain't forgotten anything which is why I don't need T'challa saddled with having to drag up the sales of D listers in the Ultimates, his name used to try and drag up sales for nobodies like the MA, and his name used to drag up a stealth Misty Knight solo.

This "use T'challa to help everyone!" thinking is what lead to all that comic momentum squandered and T'challa tumbling down the sales chart.

I am 100% T'challa selfish and I have no problem stating that

Honestly I don't think Ewing put T'Challa on this book for sales. If that was Ewings motivation for doing anything, the teams roster would likely have looked very different.

I think from a writing standpoint, BLack Panther simply worked in the group. This is the sort of team a guy like him should be on.

And I'd still argue it was a very well written book. Not big on action, which is understandably not everyone's cup of tea. But I thought the continuity, characterization, and dialogue were all on point. Not that I wouldn't have preferred more punching of faces myself, but I think Ewing is actually very underrated.