T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[skyvolt2000]

People championed BP because it showcased Black excellence fully realized and shattered all the excuses Hollywood made about Black starred films with mostly all black cast. And why do people have this damn notion of trying to still pit black movies against each other like in the post.. it's stupid

Much like with a certain echo chamber-folks seem to ASSUME it's your duty as a black person to SUPPORT anything and everything black no matter the quality or interest you may NOT have in it.

They ignore all the factors that come into play.
I just googled the showings for Blackkklansman.
The EARLIEST I could see it today-2:45 in ANOTHER city not Dallas (that time is 3:45).
Number of showings? 3 Only 1 theater is showing it more than 3 times. It's in ANOTHER city not Dallas.
Fruitville Station-I had to go to ANOTHER city to see it.
Moonlight-only showed in 2 theaters NONE in the black community.
Get Out-I took off work to go see on opening Friday because it was going to be YANKED out of local theaters on Monday. Same with Creed.
DO NOT get me started on Beast of the Southern Wild or Dope.
I did NOT have that issue with Black Panther.

And what is funny they scream this but they will also CHERRY PICK RAGE.

Where were they for Detroit? OH that's right it wasn't about black women and had a white director.
Wrinkle in Time? Oh that's right the lead was biracial.
The Hate You Give? Oh the lead is biracial.
Creed 2? Oh Jordan's girlfriend is not black.
ANYTHING with Nick Cannon.

Folks came out for Panther because SOMEONE said a movie like this couldn't be made. Because folks would NOT accept Wakanda as real despite Thor & GOTG.
Folks like Shawn James PRAYING for this film to fail so Disney could FIRE everybody in Marvel Studios, Marvel Animation and Marvel comics division.

Yet this film made a LOT of folks eat their words and gave others JOBS.
How many doors got open thanks to this film for others like Hope Larson's Goldie Vance? Kwanza Osejoyo's Black? Power Rangers 2?

[Mr MajestiK]

I hear ya Redjack I really do. But a HUGE red flag is how Coates went about the interviews hyping the book. Every interview was "I don't Like this" and "I don't understand that" "if there so advanced why do they use a monarch" "I can't see a man not taking advantage of having all female body guards around him all the time" I'm paraphrasing a little but those were the things he actually said. As well as "Priest and Hudlin always showed him as awesome awesome awesome ( they didn't they showed him down and beaten too, but He was still shown as a dangerous individual) so I'm going to show a more human version"

He used there runs as excuses to not show case Tchalla as... Well competent at all even though Hudlins run endedn8 years prior to that and Priest even longer and Tchalla has had literally 8 years of deconstruction before Coates came along. If you told me nthat his version was an out of continuity, literally just became King after having virtually no experience in ruling a nation, i would believe it because that's how far off the mark Coates hit.

Maybe there wasn't "Malice" but it was painfully clear that he didn't care for the character. It took something like 4 interviews for him to say something he liked about T'Challa and even then it was weighed down by I don't like this. He proved this IP isn't in his wheelhouse and that afrofuturism isn't what he is very interested in doing.

As for your version. I see it this way. Priest, Hudlin, McDuffie, Liss. I don't love EVERYTHING they did with the character. There are things I wish they never did, however, they proved that Even when Tchalla was at low points, he was still a badass. Contrary to popular belief, a hero can still look badass even when they lose. They can lose in style. So while I'm sure that there would be things I wouldn't like about your version, I can bet the good would outweigh the bad. Hell in that Lexus BP comic you showed a better T'Challa in 12 pages then what was shown in like a year and a half

Bro Ezyo, has more or less summed up my feelings on Coates BS so there's really nothing else for me to say.

It's says a lot where in the wake of Priest, Hudlin an McDuffie'z excellemt handling of BP when they wrote stories featuring him, Coates decided to go full negative African stereotype on Wakanda.

In my humble opinion, there is no need or place for Coates nonsense in the BP mythos.

Point blank.

[Mr MajestiK]

Really though, what fictional nations aren't regularly broken down semi-regularly at this point? Asgard, Atlantis, Attilan, Latveria… in comics it's just sort of become a thing.

I think it's overdone myself, but point being I don't think the motivation is necessarily as malicious as some might think.

Unfortunately, when the current BP writer has made it abundantly clear that he BP mythos (prior to his arrival as writer,) was not to his liking before proceeding to wreck over a decades worth of character development on a whim, the line between tone deaf arrogant8and outright malicious Ness is very thin.

[Redjack]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

for instance- no more galactic wakandans. no more marriage to storm. no more connection or adventures with the ultimates. no more crew.

would you accept any or all of these?

[Cville]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

for instance- no more galactic wakandans. no more marriage to storm. no more connection or adventures with the ultimates. no more crew.

would you accept any or all of these?

Only one I'd miss is the Ultimates team. Galactic Wakandans are either the future or multiverse and they're evil so they don't matter. Marriage is better left in the past, give him an original love interest with children down the road. I'd replace the crew with a WK black ops team based out of NY whose mission it is to receive any stolen tech or vibranium.

However if editorial said I "had" to use the current continuity, the steps I'd take are:
-Exile the Midnight Angels to NY(turns into a Coming to America action\drama)
-Negotiate the return of land to the Originators. 95% of Wakandans would move to a new planet, but the remaining forces would continue to mine the Vb mound and live in city that floated in the lake(like SG Atlantis). Tchalla uses Shadow Physics to make a gateway between the two.

[DigiCom]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

for instance- no more galactic wakandans. no more marriage to storm. no more connection or adventures with the ultimates. no more crew.

would you accept any or all of these?

About as well as I'd handle a THOR writer who erased his secret ID and had him lose his hammer in the very first arc to some weird-looking alien.

Or a BP writer who decided T'Challa was a Machiavellian mastermind who looked like Avery Brooks and hung around with teenage supermodel bodyguards.

Fact of the matter is, if the stories are good, I don't give a white gorilla's behind if it matches continuity.

But it has to be GOOD. Not amateurish political polemics from some ivory-tower academic who wins awards for trying to be the next James Baldwin.

[KingNomarch]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

for instance- no more galactic wakandans. no more marriage to storm. no more connection or adventures with the ultimates. no more crew.

would you accept any or all of these?

The Galactic Wakandan Empire can disappear along with its space slave trade, Storm can go crawling back to Logan and she can take the Crew and MA with her. The only thing that’d I miss would be the Ultimates.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Hudlin started out with a story arc that was non canon and then it became such a success that they reestablished it as the new canon and it even became a cartoon at a later point!


Reboots and retcons happen all the time so there is no need to fidget with Black Panther just keep it moving toward greener pastures!


YES... Storm needs to go as does Ugly Nakia because 1.3 billion dollars and 700 million domestically has already spoken unless you believe in throwing money in the fireplace!


Now let's talk about that great big ole elephant in the room...


Due to a lack of multiple black writers actually qualified to helm the Black Panther franchise properly Marvel finds themselves in a dilemma!


At one point during the Priest era nobody wanted that gig including himself and most other black writers were nonexistent or really not all that qualified to begin with!


We have black folks that can shoot the open jump shot, score a touchdown and knock out the latest dance moves but as far as A-list black creators go there is no comparison to how many white creators are available to slide into the spot and reboot Batman dozens of times without an afterthought!


TNC seemed like a great idea in the "Woke" era but it's not like there is a huge black Comic-con where Marvel can walk down Creator's Alley and pick from 30 or 40 top black creators who had a hit creator owned character and know how to build and destroy at the same time from experience!


I personally have been to a black comic convention and later ended up clashing with a prominent figure in that genre over why his comic book looked like it was illustrated by crayons when Photoshop is the preferred method of the pros!


As black people go are we really sure that we are bringing our absolute A-game to the field or are we hoping for Marvel to figure it all out for us?


We complain about the special effects in the movie but how many of us are working with high end software or bettering our skills at storytelling to stand out so that Marvel has more than just a few black choices!


Here is Killmonger giving an award for a software that black folks need to get ASAP... Zbrush!!!





White male and Asian creators are a dime a dozen across multiple genres but for black folks we are still disputing why BlackKKlansmen is not as big as Black Panther like some everlasting clueless limbo!


Political correctness keeps Marvel and other companies afraid to speak truth to power that the reality is the pickings for awesome black creators are slim and few... Who is to blame for this!

[Mantis Dad]

I lived in Kenya for almost 7 months back in the late 80's. I am going to try to reach out to some of my long ago friends and see how they feel about BP. Will let you know what they say!
Woo dee da'say (sp), my friends!

[MindofShadow]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

As long as T'challa is acting like T'challa, and the story is good... just hit the ground running.

For instance, Liss run. Premise makes no sense at all. He had none of his "mythos" in the book until the very last arc... no wakanda, no vibranium, no wakandan supporting cast, no title. As the great M'baku said, no powers, no fancy suit,

But it was confident (to a fault at times), genius, martial arts bad ass, 5 steps ahead (not quite 10 like priest) T'challa.

And it was dope.

for instance- no more galactic wakandans.

Good

no more marriage to storm.

Good.

no more connection or adventures with the ultimates.

T'challa is too big for some C list team of nobodies anyway. Avengers or bust.

no more crew.

Oh no, not that lol /s.

would you accept any or all of these?

All I really require from a Black Panther solo is that:

1. T'challa is the LEAD, spotlight, driver of the story, problem solver of the story. Anyone else that exists in the book exists to SUPPORT him.
2. He can fight lol. And if he has his powers, he is obviously enhanced. No more goon slams please.
3. he's confident in himself and wakanda (unless the story is specifically about him questioning himself)

honestly, if the story is good, everything else I can roll with. I love Priest Panther and I like Liss Panther and I like Hudlin Panther and I like John's Panther and I like McDuffie's Panther and I love SWAD Panther and I love EMH Panther and I love MCU Panther. None of them are identical, they all involve varying degrees of supporting cast, varying degrees of wakanda involvement, varying degrees of intelligence... but, IMO, T'challa drove the story and the stories were dope.

What I can't stand is some weak, bitchmade, uncaring, can't solve any problems, tertiary character in his own book T'challa in a boring pretentious story that tries (key word tries) to be thought provoking but doesn't actually "get" there so it just comes off as amateurish dribble

[Ezyo1000]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

for instance- no more galactic wakandans. no more marriage to storm. no more connection or adventures with the ultimates. no more crew.

would you accept any or all of these?

I would accept all of these, however then Ultimates was Al Ewing's team and had no connection what so ever to the Solo so I don't see a need to remove it.

Marriage to Storm? In the past. Tchalla accepts they live two different lives and Storm will never put Wakanda first.

Galactic Wakanda? Bye Felicia. It's taking a cool concept that BP fans have talked year's about, Hickman teased at the end of SWII, and Coates twisted it into another Wakanda is an analogy for real world colonists/ slave traders. Play out the Story at the end Nakia comes back with Tchalla abd a new MCU like Nakia is here without the baggage.

Crew? Bye. It's not the original Crew anyways and this one has been shown as underwhelming at best since they debuted.

Are you wanting a full break down? Because i don't have time for it now but I can later. Frankly there are alot of ways to solve it without flat out ignoring it

[FLEX HECTIC]

I want a writer that has the nerve to cosplay as Black Panther which is the whole point of that magical word Escapism!


Put the onsie on and be brave about it... My son plays oh so much basketball in the Black Panther compression t-shirt I bought him and other players shout the Wakanda Forever chant when he scores!


It seems like a lot of new writers are dismissive of this genre like they are there more as agitators than creators ashamed to claim these characters from the heart!


At Comic-con fans cosplay as much as fans that wear their favorite teams jerseys at football and basketball games!


I recall being in line at the Golden Apple comic shop for a Hudlin signing right behind John Singleton's daddy who had the LONGEST conversation with Hudlin while I waited to get my Black Panther wallet signed like forever...


You had a who is who of top black creators and a tribute to the late great McDuffie and it reminded me of the Black Panel at Comic-con hosted by Michael Davis who was also there!


It could have counted as a mini Black comic convention with so many great black minds in the room and this was way before the 1.3 billion dollar Black Panther movie!


I always wonder if TNC would have fit in there let alone wanted to be there because it was mostly a Black geek fest where everybody and they momma was high energy and excited about what Hudlin was doing with Black Panther!


My desktop has two Black Panther statues (two more in my sons room) the Funko Pop Black Panther and Nakia and the unopened Black Panther figurine set from the Disney Store featuring BP, Killmonger, Shuri, Nakia, Okoye and a vibranium rhino... Not to mention a newer version of the Black Panther wallet!


As I wait for the Royal Talon Fighter to be sold (hint Disney hint dammit) It's clear that I'm sort of a fan of this character and want more from this franchise going forward!


6 movie viewings staggered among various family members proves I am willing to spend that coin all I want now is a writer that I can ride or die with who cares as much as I do and doesn't treat this like a chore he has to do by default!


Note to self: Get a bigger desk for more toys to come

[XPac]

okay.

how do you solve it? let's say a new writer came in with some WILDLY different notions about how to proceed with the character/universe?

for instance- no more galactic wakandans. no more marriage to storm. no more connection or adventures with the ultimates. no more crew.

would you accept any or all of these?

I think the way to solve it is by NOT going by internet responses, because frankly every single BP run I can recall has had a certain portion of people complaining about it. It's unavoidable and obviously you can't make everyone happy.

I think when you go into a story, you simply ask yourself whether the treatment you're giving the outgoing writer is how you yourself want your work to be treated when you leave. And if you're okay with it, you're PROBABLY fine. Being different isn't necessarily bad, and retcons to one degree or another come with the territory. BUt I also think you should work with whats there.

[Redjack]

I think the way to solve it is by NOT going by internet responses, because frankly every single BP run I can recall has had a certain portion of people complaining about it. It's unavoidable and obviously you can't make everyone happy.

I think when you go into a story, you simply ask yourself whether the treatment you're giving the outgoing writer is how you yourself want your work to be treated when you leave. And if you're okay with it, you're PROBABLY fine. Being different isn't necessarily bad, and retcons to one degree or another come with the territory. BUt I also think you should work with whats there.

Just ot be clear: that wasn't me asking for help. That was me asking each of you how you would solve this problem. As you point out, you can't please everyone. Personally I never try. There are stacks of people who are invested in the Coates version of the Panther and the story he's telling. If somebody like me comes in with their own agenda to pave over what went before, wouldn't those folks be legitimately allowed to cry foul? They would.

It's a hard trick to pull off, is the point. A a writer, I don['t want to come in and just carry on whatever the last writer was doing. I want to do my own thing and tell my own stories. So what am I supposed to do with a MASSIVE, years long stack of continuity and characters that might mean nothing to me but in which a large portion the audience is invested? My answer is not to take that job. Not unless there's a Crisis level reshuffle happening and I get to reboot the thing. I don't think I could take over the comic without that level of a reboot because, although i like most of what I've read in the Coates version as a reader, there's nothing there that inspires me to WRITE.

[XPac]

Just ot be clear: that wasn't me asking for help. That was me asking each of you how you would solve this problem. As you point out, you can't please everyone. Personally I never try. There are stacks of people who are invested in the Coates version of the Panther and the story he's telling. If somebody like me comes in with their own agenda to pave over what went before, wouldn't those folks be legitimately allowed to cry foul? They would.

It's a hard trick to pull off, is the point. A a writer, I don['t want to come in and just carry on whatever the last writer was doing. I want to do my own thing and tell my own stories. So what am I supposed to do with a MASSIVE, years long stack of continuity and characters that might mean nothing to me but in which a large portion the audience is invested? My answer is not to take that job. Not unless there's a Crisis level reshuffle happening and I get to reboot the thing. I don't think I could take over the comic without that level of a reboot because, although i like most of what I've read in the Coates version as a reader, there's nothing there that inspires me to WRITE.

Just to flip the question... is that something you as a writer think about when you're ending the run and ready to pass the baton to someone else? To you try to somehow ease the transition and somehow give them as clean a slate as possible, or do you end it however you want and leave it for the next time to deal with?