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  1. #1681
    Spectacular Member Pumbaa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Thing is, whole yes the mythos means different things to fans, there are also things it doesn't mean. Like Wakanda is not a place that has gender inequality, Coates showed this kn order to push an agenda. Same with making Wakanda a Columbus analog.

    At its core intergalactic Wakanda is cool and something many of us here have wanted to see.. however, how it's being done (being an allegory for the slavee trade) is whst people dislike. With Storm most people here don't hate Storm, however at this point it's time to move on. Storn had been allowed to move on but Tchalla has to be waiting for return?

    More so then anything it's how Coates and Nnedi have handled situations. They force the characters to behave how the plot deems, Characteristics be Damned. That's what is happening.

    Of you like it that's fine but most people aren't going to be Keen on their favorite character being dumbed down or weakened because the writer doesn't want to play up the situation to their level
    Yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan of the Columbus analog either. But i think this line: "They force the characters to behave how the plot deems, Characteristics be Damned. That's what is happening" gets to the heart of some of my disagreements.I don't think its a case of "Characteristics be damned" I think its a case of changing characteristics for a new story. Isn't the story the most important thing? Whats the point in characters staying perfectly consistent to decades old continuity if the story is trash, or if the story isn't what the writer wants to tell. Marvel is hiring talented authors to write their stories and I think thats dope, even if I don't always agree with the direction their taking.

    But I'd much rather have talented authors doing their own thing, than boring company men that can toe some kinda line. Its like with this most recent star wars movie; Ron Howard gave the studio exactly what they wanted, cause he can toe the line, but that **** was bland and didn't really bring anything fresh or exiting. Lord and Miller (the original directors) would have made a star wars movie like nothing we've seen before. Yes those changes woulda pissed off some die hard fans, but I feel the story woulda been better for it.

    I'm not afraid of change, and I actually welcome it. I'd much rather an average story in a fresh new direction, than a slightly better story that feels like something I've seen a hundred times before.

  2. #1682
    Old-School Otaku DigiCom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Such subtle storytelling, you can barely make out the allegory!

    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post
    Hey! It's 1970's Blade!

  3. #1683
    Get Hectic! FLEX HECTIC's Avatar
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    I think what the problem here is that Black Panther has had oh so many bad depictions that some of the fans grow weary of unfavorable story arcs over such long periods of time!


    Characters like Batman have also had bad stories but Batman is so financially caked up at this point that he is literally playing with house money and can have momentary fails here and now!


    Black Panther has one huge hit movie but a whole lot of random comics that either ran out of steam or got cancelled before anything ever really got started!


    This 1.3 billion dollar MCU character does not have it's own video game yet while lesser selling movie characters have had multiple actors portraying them over years as well as numerous video game releases!


    It's not that writers shouldn't make their own stories it's that comics are such a siding timescale thing that some changes are not worth the long term end game investment!


    Case in point... Ugly Nakia!


    To what end does a writer not recognize the beauty of Academy Award winning actress Lupita N'yongo and run with that moving forward instead of pushing the not really worth it Storm angle that cannot even hold it's own solo comic sales by herself?


    It takes multiple X-men movies combined to reach 1.3 billion dollars and even though the X-men are now Disney's property does not mean most fans want to go from dark skin lovelies to lighter skinned, blue eyed love interests!


    The ABC rules in sales is to Always Be Closing... At the end of the day you have to win the football game not just call the plays you only want to see!


    Besides... Once a blockbuster movie shows you how to get paid and paid well you just follow those blueprints and cash out!


    This franchise/intellectual property should not have comics that are not even finished yet getting cancelled in advance like it has been!


    All future hirings should be based on revenue generating ability and not pheelings otherwise pay for play should be on volunteer basis only!

  4. #1684
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post


    guess who made the list
    Seriously, its a no brainer.

  5. #1685
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jabare View Post


    guess who made the list
    I think it's funny Black Dwarf made the list. When the guy says people were expecting him to do better, he clearly wasn't talking about actual comic book readers familiar with the source material.

    I think overall he makes a valid argument about the villains underperforming against the street level heroes. But saying the heroes under performed against an Infinity stone wielding Thanos is a bit of a stretch. I'd say they performed about as well as expected.

  6. #1686
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingNomarch View Post


    Surely manifold isn't gonna bite the dust in one panel lol

    and it is weird seeing T'challa using guns. So primitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    Thats a fair perspective. But I don't think she doesn't like ANYTHING in the mythos. She just believed those changes were necessary for the story she wanted to tell. I had no problem with any of those changes. I approach this rather from the perspective of "Why get a new writer if they're not going to make the series their own".

    If I feel like reading Hudlin's version of Shuri, that comic still exists and I can go read it whenever I want. But if I'm reading Nnedi's comic, I want Nnedi's version of the character. Lets not act like the Black Panther mythos is even remotely recognisable to the way it was originally conceived in 1966. I'm sure every change over the years has been met with some backlash. This is nothing new. Hell, Shuri didn't even exist 2005.
    I personally think a sign of a good writer is being able to take what was establish and evolve the character. This evolution doesn't always work and doesn't always land but you can see where they are coming from. A good writer can put his "spin" on a character without blowing it up.

    Priest is the best example. His T'challa is unrecognizable from Roy Thomas noble negro trope. But, at a more detailed look (and his own explanations), he took what was first written by Kirby/Lee, mashed it together with McGregor's Wakanda, and then sprinkled in his own stuff to "make sense" of the character and modernized. (while also keeping the Noble Monarch side of T'challa... without making him a bitch like Roy did)

    Nnedi, on the other hand, from what we have seen, just takes the character and blows it up. Malice shared no characteristics with Priest's Malice other than an obsession with T'challa and dropping Junnifeiro name every once in a while. And even that obsession played out more like a Ghetto Lifetime movie more so than what priest did. She is seemingly doing the same thing with Shuri. I personally find that lazy and uninspired. You could have easily found some reason to throw Shuri in a lab for some reason without destroying her core characteristic by also making her reluctant to do what is necessary for Wakanda.
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  7. #1687
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beware Of Geek View Post
    Such subtle storytelling, you can barely make out the allegory!



    Hey! It's 1970's Blade!
    He kind of looked similar to this in Doomwar minus the shades and earpiece

  8. #1688
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    Seriously, its a no brainer.
    A Marvel executive producer said if they'd known BP would be a billion dollar global phenomenon, they'd have given him something to actually do in the movie and possibly wouldn't have, spoiler, killed him off.

    How does that make you feel?

  9. #1689
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumbaa View Post
    Yeah, I wasn't the biggest fan of the Columbus analog either. But i think this line: "They force the characters to behave how the plot deems, Characteristics be Damned. That's what is happening" gets to the heart of some of my disagreements.I don't think its a case of "Characteristics be damned" I think its a case of changing characteristics for a new story. Isn't the story the most important thing? Whats the point in characters staying perfectly consistent to decades old continuity if the story is trash, or if the story isn't what the writer wants to tell. Marvel is hiring talented authors to write their stories and I think thats dope, even if I don't always agree with the direction their taking.

    But I'd much rather have talented authors doing their own thing, than boring company men that can toe some kinda line. Its like with this most recent star wars movie; Ron Howard gave the studio exactly what they wanted, cause he can toe the line, but that **** was bland and didn't really bring anything fresh or exiting. Lord and Miller (the original directors) would have made a star wars movie like nothing we've seen before. Yes those changes woulda pissed off some die hard fans, but I feel the story woulda been better for it.

    I'm not afraid of change, and I actually welcome it. I'd much rather an average story in a fresh new direction, than a slightly better story that feels like something I've seen a hundred times before.
    I think you missed my point. Your confusing story with plot. Stories should be Character driven, not plot driven. I'll give an example with Coates.

    Season 1 has Tchalla moping, Wakanda has fallen Into chaos and the Wakandan army and resources are stretched thin (let me first tell you that this bit here isn't even said on panel, Coates said it in a tweet) and Tchalla is too "distracted" to stop obvious big ass rape treehouses in Wakanda, and the MA say that government doesn't care. In the past we have seen T'Challa personally take care of these issues when they arise, from drug trafficking, to when a little girl in America died he dropped what he was doing and raised hell.

    Here he doesn't bother. He is shown to not have any sort of plan when facing his enemies so he gets beat by Zenzi by pure stupidity. Then the next issue he gets beat by Tetu by pure stupidity. He agrees to let KNOWN despots into Wakanda to ask for advice on how to quell a rebellion (something he has taken care of many times in the past) "Just to see what they would say) this scene was so stupid and served to drive an agenda that even casuals went wtf was that about.

    Rather then bring the villains up to Tchallas level, he was instead dumbed down.

    Making the story their own doesn't mean changing the Characters so much that they are completely different and basically new characters. Priest's, Hudlin, Liss told their own stories and made it their own while staying true to the characters core characterization.

    And one last thing, marvel has hired for the BP mythos sense Coates has gotten on, 6 noncomic book writers, all neophytes to the Craft, to write BP or BP related stories.. only one of them has done a good job. And that was Evan narcisse and Even then you could tell he was new to the craft. He should of been another Hudlin and given time to improve honestly. So "talented authors in one area doesn't automatically translate into talented comic book artist.
    Last edited by Ezyo1000; 09-22-2018 at 07:44 AM.

  10. #1690
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    I think it's funny Black Dwarf made the list. When the guy says people were expecting him to do better, he clearly wasn't talking about actual comic book readers familiar with the source material.

    I think overall he makes a valid argument about the villains underperforming against the street level heroes. But saying the heroes under performed against an Infinity stone wielding Thanos is a bit of a stretch. I'd say they performed about as well as expected.
    Even on the comics when he died it took the combined efforts of superskrull, gladiator and ronan. In the movie frakking Bruce banner killed him solo in a underwhelming manner. I would of preferred a Tchalla/Steve tag team to kill him.

  11. #1691
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezyo1000 View Post
    Even on the comics when he died it took the combined efforts of superskrull, gladiator and ronan. In the movie frakking Bruce banner killed him solo in a underwhelming manner. I would of preferred a Tchalla/Steve tag team to kill him.
    Black Dwarf died from a single hit from Roman, arguable the weakest guy on their side. It was literally a 2 hit fight .. Gladiator his Dwarfs weapon, and Ronan kills Dwarf.

    This guy must have been an intern in the Black Order. Or maybe someone's nephew. The books went almost out of their way to sell him as the loser of the bunch.

  12. #1692
    Invincible Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    A Marvel executive producer said if they'd known BP would be a billion dollar global phenomenon, they'd have given him something to actually do in the movie and possibly wouldn't have, spoiler, killed him off.

    How does that make you feel?
    How woudl it make you feel if Carol has a huge role in Avengers 4 because they anticipated a huge movie and it does "good but standard" Dr. Strange numbers?

    Let's hope those reshoots put in more T'challa

    (and yes... more tchalla, not team Wakanda. #selfish)
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  13. #1693
    Astonishing Member Dboi654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rumble View Post
    A Marvel executive producer said if they'd known BP would be a billion dollar global phenomenon, they'd have given him something to actually do in the movie and possibly wouldn't have, spoiler, killed him off.

    How does that make you feel?
    Nothing at all.

    At the end of the day its still underwhelming even with Wakanda involved

  14. #1694
    Ultimate Member Ezyo1000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    How woudl it make you feel if Carol has a huge role in Avengers 4 because they anticipated a huge movie and it does "good but standard" Dr. Strange numbers?

    Let's hope those reshoots put in more T'challa

    (and yes... more tchalla, not team Wakanda. #selfish)
    I expect Cap marvel will do decent numbers, I think it could do WW numbers. I think now that BP smashed all expectations they are probably going to assume marvel will do the same. And yes I hope that the reshoots brought T'Challa in to it for More work because honestly, if they want to make Wakanda a hub going forward Tchalla needs to be front and center

  15. #1695
    Astonishing Member Rumble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dboi654 View Post
    Nothing at all.

    At the end of the day its still underwhelming even with Wakanda involved
    Lies lol.

    I was disgusted by the quote, well intentioned and apologetic as it may have been.

    Bast forbid if BP only did 700 million

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