T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[butterflykyss]

Point Man!!!

and thank you boo lolol

[butterflykyss]

Can't be better said.

No need for intellectual dishonesty. Most BP fans on here want Coates gone, most-non BP fans (who are just looking for a safe-shelter for their battered/underepped characters, whether that's Storm or the LGBT duo) want Coates to stay but only if he continues including the aforementioned characters, bc otherwise they'll dip just like those Aneka/Ayo posters did.

Once that's understood, the rest is just whatever. As in, whatever the argument is, it will all boil down to those same two stances inevitably. As it always does.

you know the funny this is that this divisiveness that is saturated throughout this post is one of the reasons why you will NEVER see BP where you want him to be when it comes to his sales numbers.

[FLEX HECTIC]

Men may lie... Women may lie... But the numbers don't lie... Or do they?


Point Man: "Black Panther... Significant Other... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period!"


Of course Significant Other and Rogues Gallery can be combined for a character like Zanda where the URST (UnResolved Sexual Tension) can apply but it is really really really weird that a "bachelor" (in quotes) like King T'challa just doesn't seem to have a plethora of leading ladies pushing up on him like all day every day!


I get it that a random writer might want to promote some other agenda but in a world where most brothas have or have had more than one girlfriend/baby mama/side piece it seems extraordinary that that is almost never a theme within Black Panther!


I am not implying that T'challa be a womanizing Mandingo with no self control but with all the potential for love interests waiting to be created how is this type of thing ignored where it could apply even for the sake of ongoing soap opera drama...





I couldn't see myself ignoring the billion dollar potential to even write about the third Dora on the left unless she matters to the overall love story for the main featured character!


Princess Shuri is okay if you plan to make those comics available at the Disney Store for little girls trying on Little Mermaid outfits!


It seems that the ready and willing fanbase is not supportive of the general World of Wakanda which means that there is still some world building needed for T'challa first over the other side characters!


The next writer should ramp up more super villain women in Wakanda and tease us like Redjack did with Zanda and pick up a check at the payroll office!


Who said Erika Alexander... As political as she has gotten you might run into the same problem you do now with Coates!


Someone more like Redjack that is living and breathing this life would and should do much better because secretly he might very well be wearing Black Panther feet pajamas with zero F's given!

[Montez]

where did I say that writing quality was the reason issue 1 of BP vs. DP didnt sale as many here was hoping it would? I understand as an avid comic reader that there are many contributing factors to the success of a comic; however, the main excuse I've seen here for sluggish sales for coates bp has been his writing and vision of the franchise. in fact people including yourself have argue the art has been the only thing carrying Coates BP. That BP vs. DP had everything some posters here have been looking for (I actually liked the art) and even had another super popular character to draw in interest; therefore, the hype was most definitely there (at least in this forum) yet here we are discussing low sales numbers of this book.

The reality is, at hurtful as it may be in his appreciation thread, is though he is a mainstream character in pop culture who sold BILLIONS at the box office the elements that plague most, if not all, black characters still impact black panther readership. Additionally, what exactly are you trying to stop? You seriously think that had numbers of this book had been above 100k that posters here who HATE COATES wouldnt use it as evidence as to why readers do not want to read Coates' BP? It's not one day I cant come into this forum without people looking to point at how bad BP&C did, or WoW did sales wise. You best believe to fit that line of thought BPvDP would have been used to denigrate the works of Coates. All in all this, my friend is another reality, that the narrative that is pervasive around here that Coates is the death of all things Wakanda related simply isnt true AND as I mentioned a while back once BP fans accepts this truth a REAL discussion can be had around how to address poor sales of comics when Black characters are attached to it.

Great points...
Glad to see a follow Coates fan ..

[Ezyo1000]

where did I say that writing quality was the reason issue 1 of BP vs. DP didnt sale as many here was hoping it would? I understand as an avid comic reader that there are many contributing factors to the success of a comic; however, the main excuse I've seen here for sluggish sales for coates bp has been his writing and vision of the franchise. in fact people including yourself have argue the art has been the only thing carrying Coates BP. That BP vs. DP had everything some posters here have been looking for (I actually liked the art) and even had another super popular character to draw in interest; therefore, the hype was most definitely there (at least in this forum) yet here we are discussing low sales numbers of this book.

The reality is, at hurtful as it may be in his appreciation thread, is though he is a mainstream character in pop culture who sold BILLIONS at the box office the elements that plague most, if not all, black characters still impact black panther readership. Additionally, what exactly are you trying to stop? You seriously think that had numbers of this book had been above 100k that posters here who HATE COATES wouldnt use it as evidence as to why readers do not want to read Coates' BP? It's not one day I cant come into this forum without people looking to point at how bad BP&C did, or WoW did sales wise. You best believe to fit that line of thought BPvDP would have been used to denigrate the works of Coates. All in all this, my friend is another reality, that the narrative that is pervasive around here that Coates is the death of all things Wakanda related simply isnt true AND as I mentioned a while back once BP fans accepts this truth a REAL discussion can be had around how to address poor sales of comics when Black characters are attached to it.

I think you got some things twisted. No one here was expecting BP vs DP to do some crazy 100k numbers or anything like that. In fact, of you actually paid attention to what posters here were saying, given the interview with the writer and the initial preview, most of us here were under the impression that the guy was more so interested in writing Deadpool and BP was More an afterthought.

As for the preview? The panels they used were actually the weakest part of the issue, further giving trepidation to us fans. When the issue dropped people here were actually on pleasantly surprised by how well T'Challa was portrayed and how he was more akin to the panther we know. No one here was raving that this was going to be this mega hit. And no, we aren't here discussing the low sales of BP vs DP, we were discussing the low sales of the Shuri book. So again, don't get it twisted. This book is right on par with the other DP vs books as MoS has shown.

What I find funny is that now the tune has changed, now it's Black Panther just isn't interesting to the readership and has nothing to do with Coates writing.. yet how well did his book start out in S1 till people bounced when Coates strung them along for his directionless ride that he ended with a shrug? Why did Marvel have to keep saving Coates book?

Why was Rise the only successful mini out of all the spin offs (which If it came out first Instead of WoW, it would of likely turned into an ongoing)? Because Coates DID burn all the good will and hype and perfect set up that surrounded this book when it debuted in 2016.

BP can sell, this has been proven by Priest and Hudlin, who had the longest and most successful run of BP, and they did it at a time where he got major push back. BP sells when he is being written as BP that's the frakking deal

[Ezyo1000]

you know the funny this is that this divisiveness that is saturated throughout this post is one of the reasons why you will NEVER see BP where you want him to be when it comes to his sales numbers.

Also on this note, we will see him where we want him to be when we get a writer In (like Redjack, Dude needs to get that S2 panther quest and promotion as BP pointman) that actually cares about the character. When T'Challa is being written right, his sales are fine.

Notice how much Coates changed his tune between S1&2 vs S3. S3 art IS doing the heavy lifting, let's make that clear, but he went from having several issues barely feature T'Challa at a or not all all in previous season's (and we saw how fast the numbers fell and Marvel had to intervene) and now he went to actually showing T'Challa doing isht and his numbers have been dropping slower, granted it's clear he doesn't have 12 issue's worth of content and his redundancy has made itself clear again, when T'Challa is written as the focus and the one doing isht and not delegating, people pay a little more attention.

His book right now is hovering around 30k, and of he actually showed more care to elevate T'Challa he could get in good graces and have a stable book without Marvel intervention. Again us posters here have always given credit where credit is due. When Coates did something right with Tchalla we would have him credit. He has had some decent issues and we have praised him for them.... It's just the bad vastly outweighs his few decent issues

[MindofShadow]

nvm I know better so here is a random ass youtube video i ran into

[MindofShadow]

Can't be better said.

No need for intellectual dishonesty. Most BP fans on here want Coates gone, most-non BP fans (who are just looking for a safe-shelter for their battered/underepped characters, whether that's Storm or the LGBT duo) want Coates to stay but only if he continues including the aforementioned characters, bc otherwise they'll dip just like those Aneka/Ayo posters did.

Once that's understood, the rest is just whatever. As in, whatever the argument is, it will all boil down to those same two stances inevitably. As it always does.

**** is to the point where asking for basic things like good art, a quality comic fiction writer, respect for the mythos, and respect for the main character is considered some ridiculous request and how dare we just don't accept what we get lol.

"yall praised BP vs DP"

... da fuq? Saying T'challa was a bad ass, writer showed respect, he seemed to write DP good, the art was "eh i guess it works for the book." is now considered some crazy high praise lol. Ain't that just the bare minimum???

[Rumble]

**** is to the point where asking for basic things like good art, a quality comic fiction writer, respect for the mythos, and respect for the main character is considered some ridiculous request and how dare we just don't accept what we get lol.

"yall praised BP vs DP"

... da fuq? Saying T'challa was a bad ass, writer showed respect, he seemed to write DP good, the art was "eh i guess it works for the book." is now considered some crazy high praise lol. Ain't that just the bare minimum???

Vagabon Storm fan throwing words around like NEVER when it comes to sales numbers for solo runs

But let's not get triggered down that path...

I'll happily take 30k/month sales if that means no x-men, no namor, and no hack writers. I know that's asking a lot (and bast-forbid good art and respect for the character/mytho) but i guess the 1.3 billy movie and well received cartoon has raised my base-level standards to want creatives who give a ****..

[MindofShadow]

Vagabon Storm fan throwing words around like NEVER when it comes to sales numbers for solo runs

But let's not get triggered down that path...

I'll happily take 30k/month sales if that means no x-men, no namor, and no hack writers. I know that's asking a lot (and bast-forbid good art and respect for the character/mytho) but i guess the 1.3 billy movie and well received cartoon has raised my base-level standards to want creatives who give a ****..

All that really matters to fans is staying above cancellation zone so the books comes out each month.

Anything higher is for bragging rights.

I still want the throne though...

[Rumble]

All that really matters to fans is staying above cancellation zone so the books comes out each month.

Anything higher is for bragging rights.

I still want the throne though...

That's what the bandwagonners and leeches fail to understand

Everything else is for shits and giggles but not at the cost of integrity (or else there's really nothing to brag about)

[Marvell2100]

#1 sales have absolutely nothing to do with the writing quality. Zero. It is impossible based on how the system works. It is literally the one thing that isn't in play at all. So no matter how much certain people liked the issue, it doesn't matter with sales.

It is 100% the title, writing team, artist, synopsis, and maybe preview. Everything that has to do with HYPE.

Can't have healthy debates if we don't have a basic understanding of floppy sales.

And, to stop something else in its tracks: Most people said the book was respectful of the mythology and that T'challa was written like the badass he is. That's it. You are acting like we called it the next great comic series. It is a deadpool vs. comic right in line with other deadpool vs comics sales wise.

And no, the next writer coming along won't prove anything because they won't get to benefit from the same circumstances Coates benefited from.

Pretty much this. Guy walks into a situation with movie hype, BP fresh off New Avengers, plus his break-out, scene-stealing play in CA:CW.

People wanted to see what this award-winning writer would do with the royal flush that he was dealt and the sales showed at first.

He follows all that with Third World Wakanda complete with treehouse rape camps and misogyny along with an incompetent king.

Some people thought it was ground-breaking while some of us thought it was a titanic type disaster. Even more mediocre minis followed.

[Jabare]

What happened to the Avengers #10 spoiler thread from this morning? I go to work, come back and its gone. Did I imagine it lol?

[MindofShadow]

What happened to the Avengers #10 spoiler thread from this morning? I go to work, come back and its gone. Did I imagine it lol?

Cant post spoiler threads that early, its against the rules

[skyvolt2000]

You seriously think that had numbers of this book had been above 100k that posters here who HATE COATES wouldnt use it as evidence as to why readers do not want to read Coates' BP?

Friendly reminder that 100K is books ORDERED to a store.

It is NOT books sold to customers.
See a lot of folks think comicchron numbers mean sales. Like a certain hate movement loves to scream mainly at POC lead books.

Here is the REALITY.
The larger the number the larger the piles of UNSOLD books that will be in dollar and 25 center bins.
Or get boxed in grab bags and warehouse clearance sales at places like Half Price books.

There are a few ways to look at it.

Comic book store wise it's books taking up space and NOT selling at the cover price (and selling OUT at times) like a Moon Girl.
Unsold copies that live in bins at cheaper prices get into the hands of MORE people. So what happens??? It can go two ways for Black Panther and the franchise.

More fans because those copies have been shoved in their faces like Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman and others books over the years. If the books are GOOD-they come back for more and are willing to pay that cover price or trade price.

Or you get characters written so POORLY in a top selling book-that it TURNS FOLKS OFF and make a HARDER sell. Examples? Green Lantern John Stewart & Justice League Cyborg under Johns. Duke Thomas under Tom King. Storm in ANY X-Men book.

For those writers-it makes other fans weary of them when they do CERTAIN projects.
For those characters-it's a HARDER sell. There is a reason we hear "John Stewart is BORING" & "Duke Thomas is trash" & "Black Wally West if offensive". Because no matter how well Justice League (insert last name), Deathstroke, Teen Trainwreck or Batman and Signal do in trades or sales-that higher seller can still define them.

And that is bad for business. Black Panther's job is NOT to build up Storm-that is her franchise job. Panther can assist in that but not lead the way. Because relying on Panther to do it offers an EXCUSE for the main franchise to not bother.