T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Ezyo1000]

And IF he's capable of taking hits from Namor, then a hit from Killmonger should be completely ineffective. But it is. That's where the inconsistency lies. Namor should likely be several hundred times more powerful than Killmonger, so if he can be hurt by Killmonger then a shot from Namor should KO him (if not outright kill him). It shouldn't work both ways if it's the same person in the same suit with the same properties.

But it does, because comics work that way. Again, I'm just proposing an explanation beyond simple lazy writing.

Kilmonger isn't a regular Human. And again that's not how it works. Absorbing force doesn't mean your absorbing the weighted momentum. Bullets simply fall when the hit the habit because they are robbed of their momentum and they weigh far less then T'Challa.

The movie shows this nicely. T'Challa is hit by: a rhino, a grenade, a train, thanos, and Erik.

The weight of the rhino, Thanos, Erik and the grenade are greater then T'Challa hence why he was moved by their blows despite the actual force of the blow being absorbed. He Feels the blow but the damage is minimal or no existent. The only time Tchalla seems to be truly effected by Erik on the comics post McGregor (when he has the microweave) is in ceremonial combat I. Which they are on equal footings (not wearing the microweave) in Hudlin's run, wearing the habit, neither of them are taking anything more then minimal damage.

[XPac]

Kilmonger isn't a regular Human. And again that's not how it works. Absorbing force doesn't mean your absorbing the weighted momentum. Bullets simply fall when the hit the habit because they are robbed of their momentum and they weigh far less then T'Challa.

The movie shows this nicely. T'Challa is hit by: a rhino, a grenade, a train, thanos, and Erik.

The weight of the rhino, Thanos, Erik and the grenade are greater then T'Challa hence why he was moved by their blows despite the actual force of the blow being absorbed. He Feels the blow but the damage is minimal or no existent. The only time Tchalla seems to be truly effected by Erik on the comics post McGregor (when he has the microweave) is in ceremonial combat I. Which they are on equal footings (not wearing the microweave) in Hudlin's run, wearing the habit, neither of them are taking anything more then minimal damage.

Killmonger may not be a regular human, but again Namor is a hundred times stronger than him. And we're not comparing apples to oranges (ie a punch vs a bullet), we're comparing apples to apples. A punch from Killmonger vs a punch from Namor.

If Killmonger can KO T'Challa, then Namor should flat out be able t kill him with a single blow. Conversely if the suit can absorb the force if a Namor hit, then Killmonger shouldn't be able to knock T'Challa out. He shouldnt be able to hurt him at all.

And there have been plenty of times T'Challa has been effected by punches outside of fight with Erik. Red Skull was doing just fine, and argaublly would have won the fight if not for Falcons birds. You can argue the suit shouldn't work that way, but the point is that it has... many many times. And again, the easiest explanation for it (IMO at least) is that he simply wasn't wearing a suit with kinetic absorbtion abilities in those instances. Based on Rise, he SHOULD have those abilities all along. But for whatever reason T'Challa chose not to incorporate them in at least some (most) of his suits.

[Ezyo1000]

I don't disagree. I'm just saying the force push should be in his higher end suits rather than his standard one.

You keep saying this yet there is no reason for this at all. The microweave absorbs Kinectic energy. Regardless of how much energy is absorbed, it's still absorbed energy. The redistribution factor scales off energy absorbed, not a set amount of force. If he is punched by Cap or punched by hulk the redistribution factor scales relative to the amount taken. Cap and hulk with both sustain as much damage as Tchalla deals to them and the damage they dealt to the habit. Cap isn't going to sustain hulk level Force unless he produced hulk level Force into the habit. Your reason for needing higher gear makes zero sense

[Blind Wedjat]

Killmonger may not be a regular human, but again Namor is a hundred times stronger than him. And we're not comparing apples to oranges (ie a punch vs a bullet), we're comparing apples to apples. A punch from Killmonger vs a punch from Namor.

If Killmonger can KO T'Challa, then Namor should flat out be able t kill him with a single blow. Conversely if the suit can absorb the force if a Namor hit, then Killmonger shouldn't be able to knock T'Challa out. He shouldnt be able to hurt him at all.

And there have been plenty of times T'Challa has been effected by punches outside of fight with Erik. Red Skull was doing just fine, and argaublly would have won the fight if not for Falcons birds. You can argue the suit shouldn't work that way, but the point is that it has... many many times. And again, the easiest explanation for it (IMO at least) is that he simply wasn't wearing a suit with kinetic absorbtion abilities in those instances. Based on Rise, he SHOULD have those abilities all along. But for whatever reason T'Challa chose not to incorporate them in at least some (most) of his suits.

A Vibranium suit has always had kinetic absorption abilities. It's the ability to redirect it that is new.

[XPac]

You keep saying this yet there is no reason for this at all. The microweave absorbs Kinectic energy. Regardless of how much energy is absorbed, it's still absorbed energy. The redistribution factor scales off energy absorbed, not a set amount of force. If he is punched by Cap or punched by hulk the redistribution factor scales relative to the amount taken. Cap and hulk with both sustain as much damage as Tchalla deals to them and the damage they dealt to the habit. Cap isn't going to sustain hulk level Force unless he produced hulk level Force into the habit. Your reason for needing higher gear makes zero sense

Problem being there are plenty of times he's been hit and the force wasn't absorbed or redirected. And that's the problem. THere are PLENTY of times he's been punches with the person punching him taking ZERO damage because frankly the force push thing didn't exist for the vast bulk of T'Challa's publication history... it was only retconned into his past in recent years.

That's why him having multiple suits makes more sense (rather than it just not magially working at times when it's better for the narrative if it doesn't).

[XPac]

A Vibranium suit has always had kinetic absorption abilities. It's the ability to redirect it that is new.

I'm not saying it didn't exist... I'm saying it didn't always work. When he was fighting Red Skull, he might as well have been wearing spandex. I'm merely arguing that him not wearing the suit is a possible explanation of why it didn't.

And frankly because of Rise he should have had the redirect abilities the whole time too. But he CLEARLY didn't... meaning from a narrative standpoint at least he chose not to use them in at least some of his suits.

[Ezyo1000]

Killmonger may not be a regular human, but again Namor is a hundred times stronger than him. And we're not comparing apples to oranges (ie a punch vs a bullet), we're comparing apples to apples. A punch from Killmonger vs a punch from Namor.

If Killmonger can KO T'Challa, then Namor should flat out be able t kill him with a single blow. Conversely if the suit can absorb the force if a Namor hit, then Killmonger shouldn't be able to knock T'Challa out. He shouldnt be able to hurt him at all.

And there have been plenty of times T'Challa has been effected by punches outside of fight with Erik. Red Skull was doing just fine, and argaublly would have won the fight if not for Falcons birds. You can argue the suit shouldn't work that way, but the point is that it has... many many times. And again, the easiest explanation for it (IMO at least) is that he simply wasn't wearing a suit with kinetic absorbtion abilities in those instances. Based on Rise, he SHOULD have those abilities all along. But for whatever reason T'Challa chose not to incorporate them in at least some (most) of his suits.

I compared Apples to apples in the quote you are quoting. T'Challa gets hit by a rhino a train thanos and Erik. Erik hits him and staggered him or knocked him back. Damage minimal. A Rhino and train hit him knocking him several or a couple hundred feet. He is disoriented and feeling it. Thanos knocked him out. All of these hits effect him to some extent. But the damage or way a around it should be overload or disabling the habit.

Erik in Priest story knocked him out because he wasn't wearing the microweave (ceremonial combat) in the same run Namor hits microweave Tchalla sending him back but T'Challa doesn't go down. Redskull should of used something to get around the habit. That's laziness. Not the suit failing nightshade did it. IF overloaded it. Smart writer's and MCU and Redjack know how to get around it. Unimaginative and lazy writers don't. Of the threat can't overload it then they need to find a way to get around it. The solution isn't too dumb T'Challa down

[XPac]

I compared Apples to apples in the quote you are quoting. T'Challa gets hit by a rhino a train thanos and Erik. Erik hits him and staggered him or knocked him back. Damage minimal. A Rhino and train hit him knocking him several or a couple hundred feet. He is disoriented and feeling it. Thanos knocked him out. All of these hits effect him to some extent. But the damage or way a around it should be overload or disabling the habit.

Erik in Priest story knocked him out because he wasn't wearing the microweave (ceremonial combat) in the same run Namor hits microweave Tchalla sending him back but T'Challa doesn't go down. Redskull should of used something to get around the habit. That's laziness. Not the suit failing nightshade did it. IF overloaded it. Smart writer's and MCU and Redjack know how to get around it. Unimaginative and lazy writers don't. Of the threat can't overload it then they need to find a way to get around it. The solution isn't too dumb T'Challa down

I don't disagree that lazy writing is a factor in the inconsistency of the suit... but lazy writing or not, those instances happened. Again, I am merely offering an expanation as to why some of those instances the kinetic absorbtion didn't happen. Easiest explanation would be he simply wasn't wearing a suit with it.

The vibranium suit didn't exist for decades as only came into existance with Priest, but the canon establishes that the technology DID exist. It's nearly impossible to reconcide that unless you assume he had multiple suits, many of which didn't have kinetic absorbtion or the ability to redirect force.

[Ezyo1000]

Problem being there are plenty of times he's been hit and the force wasn't absorbed or redirected. And that's the problem. THere are PLENTY of times he's been punches with the person punching him taking ZERO damage because frankly the force push thing didn't exist for the vast bulk of T'Challa's publication history... it was only retconned into his past in recent years.

That's why him having multiple suits makes more sense (rather than it just not magially working at times when it's better for the narrative if it doesn't).

Force push literally does nothing defensively, unless a writer shows Tchalla use it to absorbing and redirecting all energy out the habit the push is strictly offensive. Your issue is that the natural property of Vibranium gets ignored. It always absorbs. Always.

[XPac]

Force push literally does nothing defensively, unless a writer shows Tchalla use it to absorbing and redirecting all energy out the habit the push is strictly offensive. Your issue is that the natural property of Vibranium gets ignored. It always absorbs. Always.

Except it doesn't always absorb, because it didn't even exist yet (in the meta sense) for a large percenage of the characters history. He can get knocked down and even knocked out in McGregors run or in his initial Avengers run without a vibranium suit protecting him because it simply did not exist yet (even though it was retconned into existance after the fact). And even when it did exist, it worked inconsistantly as we saw with the Red Skull.

So you can either choose to assume he wasn't wearing the suit like I do (which would also explain why his suit is so damaged in many of his appearances), or you can do what you did with Red Skull and assume every instance where the force wasn't absorded was due to the person punching him having some sort of counter for it. Whatever floats your boat. Or you can just not think about it, like the majority of comic readers do. That works too.

[Ezyo1000]

Except it doesn't always absorb, because it didn't even exist yet (in the meta sense) for a large percenage of the characters history. He can get knocked down and even knocked out in McGregors run or in his initial Avengers run without a vibranium suit protecting him because it simply did not exist yet (even though it was retconned into existance after the fact). And even when it did exist, it worked inconsistantly as we saw with the Red Skull.

So you can either choose to assume he wasn't wearing the suit like I do (which would also explain why his suit is so damaged in many of his appearances), or you can do what you did with Red Skull and assume every instance where the force wasn't absorded was due to the person punching him having some sort of counter for it. Whatever floats your boat. Or you can just not think about it, like the majority of comic readers do. That works too.

In red skulls case. That's the writer Being lazy. Because that run happened when Priest was writing the book, so he shouldn't of been getting rocked like that or it should of been shown on panel skull getting around it somehow.

McGregors run doesn't apply to this because Priest didn't retcon him having the habit back then, again natural progression of tech. And I said your issue is with the natural property of Vibranium being ignored, not the habit because his habit wasn't the microweave till Priest

[XPac]

In red skulls case. That's the writer Being lazy. Because that run happened when Priest was writing the book, so he shouldn't of been getting rocked like that or it should of been shown on panel skull getting around it somehow.

McGregors run doesn't apply to this because Priest didn't retcon him having the habit back then, again natural progression of tech. And I said your issue is with the natural property of Vibranium being ignored, not the habit because his habit wasn't the microweave till Priest

Priest didn't retcon McGregor into having the nabit back then, but Evans in Rise retcons BP to basically having both the kinetic absorbtion and the redirect the entire time. He simply didn't use it... why we don't know.

[Cville]

Maybe with the retcons we should start to treat older stories as alternate Earths. Like JSA and Earth-2?

[Cville]

@Redjack. Do you have an idea of how much force the Panthers Quest habit can take before Tchalla feels the impact? I was assuming that when he is get to getting tossed around his body isn't really feeling the impact.

[XPac]

Maybe with the retcons we should start to treat older stories as alternate Earths. Like JSA and Earth-2?

It would honestly be easier to just retcon/ignore Evans story at this point. Or at least that one portion of it with Namor.

I will say some of the Kirby stuff at times felt like and alternate earth.