T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Rumble]

Is there a single non white higher up at Marvel comics? Anyone above writer?

I dunno, but the white ones gotta go. Well, 1/3d to half of them.

Maybe 2/3rds if we're talking the x-office. They're in serious need of house cleaning... have my gauntlet and arm lookin toasty like purple man's at the end of infinity war, but F it, i'd do it.

Don't @ me skyvolt

[Rumble]

so we draggin in more outsiders to try and prop up sales eh?

Why would Shuri of all people call Stark? Bast have mercy

And look at that, powers malfunctioning still. RIP griot

End of first arc eh? Bold optimism.

Because everybody wanted Letitica and RDJ to interact after Black Panther movie! lol

[MindofShadow]

Because everybody wanted Letitica and RDJ to interact after Black Panther movie! lol

Amazing how that works isn't it?

[Redjack]

I honestly thing Marvel treated Mosaic like **** from the getgo though. It is a shame too. Good book.

Hmm. I'm not sure what else Marvel could have done. The fans didn't buy it. It's a common problem amongst people of color and queer "fans." They talk a lot about what they want, what they demand of these companies but, when the companies put the books out those self-same fans don't buy. They wait for the white audience to decide first. This happens over and over and one over and over...

[MindofShadow]

Hmm. I'm not sure what else Marvel could have done.

Three things, in my outsider-who-knows-nothing opinion

1. not have the first issue be overpriced. They put an immediate barrier up on the very first issue that gave people another reason not to try it

2. not foster so much hate between inhuman and x-men fans. The book got a double whamm of not only being minority lead (which brought hate) but also being inhuman (brought the wrath of xmen hate)

3. Should have had him pop up in the main inhuman book first and then got into his origin story, although I have no idea of the logistics of that obviously.

jmo

[Redjack]

Three things, in my outsider-who-knows-nothing opinion

1. not have the first issue be overpriced. They put an immediate barrier up on the very first issue that gave people another reason not to try it

2. not foster so much hate between inhuman and x-men fans. The book got a double whamm of not only being minority lead (which brought hate) but also being inhuman (brought the wrath of xmen hate)

3. Should have had him pop up in the main inhuman book first and then got into his origin story, although I have no idea of the logistics of that obviously.

jmo

The first issue was oversized. that's why it was priced higher.

Was that anti-inhuman craziness Marvel's fault? How could they have stopped it?

not possible. the inhuman vs mutants stuff was already well underway when I came up with Mosaic. the first time he appeared in the Inhumans book they got his powers wrong in any case, as they did in all the others at the time. The only ones who got him right were the Secret Empire guys.

Bottom line, fans didn't buy the book. That's the only reason books die. Mostly.

[Ezyo1000]

As EiC? Alonso got Hudlin on board I do believe but when he went to EiC, I thought that is when **** started going down hill




they threw some of their biggest creators over to the X office before Ike tried to bury the franchise

Yeah Axel really helped Hudlin out by keeping the flak off him as best he could and let him write his controversial Black Panther run, but once he was being promoted Hudlin knew it was time to bounce.

Ad for Redjack, i agree with MoS, they did ya dirty on mosiac. That was a Damn good book

[Holt]

[Ezyo1000]

The first issues was oversized that's why it was priced higher.

Was that anti-inhuman craziness Marvel's fault? How could they have stopped it?

not possible. the inhuman vs mutants stuff was already well underway when I came up with Mosaic. the first time the appeared in the Inhumans book they got his powers wrong in any case, as they did in all the others at the time. The only ones who got him right were the Secret Empire guys.

Bottom line, fans didn't buy the book. That's the only reason books die. Mostly.

I think the Issue with then inhumans was that marvel was trying to push really hard that they were the new xmen, so fans didn't like that (I find that dumb personally) then I think they started suffering the same issue the current BP franchise is running into. Throwing **** on the wall and Hoping it sticks, and not really committing to bringing quality over quantity.

But again just an outside opinion.

Sometimes it's not just fans don't buy the book, sometimes marvel doesn't make a big enough deal for why people SHOULD buy it.

Like Rise for instance. Evan's hard to fight in every interview that it was his book not Coates and yet Coates got top billing on the cover, they didn't hype it up like other spin offs and after crew crashed and burned people weren't exactly lining up for another Coates driven book. However BP fans proved there was a audience and Rise to date has been the most successful spin off since Coates arrived, but instead of maybe trying to keep that going and let Evans gain more experience to improve once the mini was done that was it. They didn't throw incentives like they did with Coates, they didn't keep the book above 20k (though it did stabilize on it's own) by any means, and it was definitely the BP fans wanted to read about, they left it alone after Issue 6.

That's the problem imo

[Rumble]

Mosaic huh? Somethings you can just tell will be dead on arrival (like the Shuri solo), and i thought buddy's book was another example of that, tho for different reasons than the Disney princess.

I thought Nighthawk another example of a poorly handled setup (Squadron Supreme...), even aside from the actual quality of the book.. which i didn't like and disagreed with how David Walker wrote the character compared to JMS. I wouldn't just continue buying a book because the character is black, but man i tried with Nighthawk, bc it was (JMS's) Nighthawk. Bast knows i tried.

[XPac]

Three things, in my outsider-who-knows-nothing opinion

1. not have the first issue be overpriced. They put an immediate barrier up on the very first issue that gave people another reason not to try it

2. not foster so much hate between inhuman and x-men fans. The book got a double whamm of not only being minority lead (which brought hate) but also being inhuman (brought the wrath of xmen hate)

3. Should have had him pop up in the main inhuman book first and then got into his origin story, although I have no idea of the logistics of that obviously.

jmo

Moon Girl was able to carve a small niche for herself despite being Inhuman, so I'm not sure we can really say that was the problem.

I think most brand new characters debuting cold likely aren't are done before they even start at the local comic shops unless maybe they have a celebrity creative team or something. The whole pre-order thing. Books in that position likely have to rely on online sales or trades to give them a fighting chance.

[Redjack]

Mosaic huh? Somethings you can just tell will be dead on arrival (like the Shuri solo), and i thought buddy's book was another example of that, tho for different reasons than the Disney princess.

it wasn't dead on arrival. SOLO (also written by me)was dead on arrival. I'm just not sure what marvel did that screwed me. They literally let me make up a brand new character right out of m y own head, write what I wanted. The put ACE artists on the book. They promoted the book the way they do lots of others. Everyone who actually reads the book comes back with, "wow, this thing is actually great."

yeah. it is. so how did i get screwed? fans just don't step up sometimes. All we can do on our side is make new stuff. We can't actually make anyone buy the stuff.

that's the game.

[skyvolt2000]

Mosaic huh? Somethings you can just tell will be dead on arrival (like the Shuri solo), and i thought buddy's book was another example of that, tho for different reasons than the Disney princess.

I thought Nighthawk another example of a poorly handled setup (Squadron Supreme...), even aside from the actual quality of the book.. which i didn't like and disagreed with how David Walker wrote the character compared to JMS. I wouldn't just continue buying a book because the character is black, but man i tried with Nighthawk, bc it was (JMS's) Nighthawk. Bast knows i tried.

I did not @ you sir and if I did my apologizes.

The first issue was oversized. that's why it was priced higher.
Was that anti-inhuman craziness Marvel's fault? How could they have stopped it?

But we have seen other books do the SAME thing and no one threw a hissy fit. Image does it as does every other company. We have seen oversized books for books like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Transformers and so on.
No one threw a hissy fit about those books. They were for the most part IGNORED.

Yet we have a book that did what so many echo chamber or entitlement or fake WOKE folks screamed at Marvel & DC to do-create an ORIGINAL character. Especially those of a POC stance. Especially those at the hands of POC creators.
Fake hate of Inhumans aside-did Redjack & Randolph NOT do what was asked of them? I believe they did. What did we see? The greatest collections of gymnastic routines to NOT support the book.

Nothing Marvel could have done to fix the minds of those folks who only saw a book by 2 BLACK creators (strike one), An inhuman (strike 2) and a POC at a time where Marvel was trying to give POC, LGBT & women shots (strike 3).

All Marvel can say is don't cry for original created characters when you don't show SUPPORT for them. Especially those of color.

Is there a single non white higher up at Marvel comics? Anyone above writer?

Sana Amanat is the director of content and character development at Marvel Comics. She's the reason you have Ms Marvel.

[skyvolt2000]

Moon Girl was able to carve a small niche for herself despite being Inhuman, so I'm not sure we can really say that was the problem.

I think most brand new characters debuting cold likely aren't are done before they even start at the local comic shops unless maybe they have a celebrity creative team or something. The whole pre-order thing. Books in that position likely have to rely on online sales or trades to give them a fighting chance.

Moon Girl is a whole different conversation.

She like Ms Marvel has the benefit of winning over a certain demo-GIRLS and when you win them over (and especially their PARENTS) you can have success.
She, Ms Marvel, WASP, America, X-23 and some of the HATED books of the entitlement crew are having success outside of comic book stores for a reason.

Shuri is going to be the same way.

Everyone who actually reads the book comes back with, "wow, this thing is actually great."

Same here-no one I talked to hated the book. They all liked it.

SOLO (also written by me)was dead on arrival

Which is interesting since folks forget he did have a mini years ago and was hanging with Deadpool. So him nor those other mercs (who had mini & ongoings in the past) got shots.

But like so many original created guys-they got ignored because folks had to hate buy Ms Marvel & Squirrel Girl to throw fits on youtube.
Sad when guys at OTHER companies have to yell "can you stop throwing fits about Marvel and support us?"

[Jabare]

Mosaic huh? Somethings you can just tell will be dead on arrival (like the Shuri solo), and i thought buddy's book was another example of that, tho for different reasons than the Disney princess.

I thought Nighthawk another example of a poorly handled setup (Squadron Supreme...), even aside from the actual quality of the book.. which i didn't like and disagreed with how David Walker wrote the character compared to JMS. I wouldn't just continue buying a book because the character is black, but man i tried with Nighthawk, bc it was (JMS's) Nighthawk. Bast knows i tried.

I'd have to disagree here. I think it is great that Marvel tries to push a Share or Dora's book.

Just going by the reaction of this thread people don't like how those books handled things in relation to T'Challa and that hurt them, but I won't blame Marvel for taking the initiative especially after the BP movie it would be foolish not to try.

Also I imagine its incredibly hard to gauge fan interest on certain things. You can't go by twitter of forums. Those 20 to 100 people might not truly represent the readership, hell they might just be pirating everything. I get why companies play it safe. Fortunately, Marvel is in this unique position where comics have almost become R&D for them, as they can lay the groundwork for movies, tv shows, video games etc. etc.

I'm just saying if you look at things from an Executives standpoint, why couldn't a Shuri book work. Many other secondary characters get spin-offs. Look at all the Batman spin-of. The Super-Man spin-offs. The Peter Parker spin-offs. Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon beloved by mainstream audiences the world over, but as far as comic readership goes its not even 1% of the moviegoing audience.