T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Holt]

it wasn't dead on arrival. SOLO (also written by me)was dead on arrival. I'm just not sure what marvel did that screwed me. They literally let me make up a brand new character right out of m y own head, write what I wanted. The put ACE artists on the book. They promoted the book the way they do lots of others. Everyone who actually reads the book comes back with, "wow, this thing is actually great."

yeah. it is. so how did i get screwed? fans just don't step up sometimes. All we can do on our side is make new stuff. We can't actually make anyone buy the stuff.

that's the game.

I always dig seeing your perspective, dude.

[Holt]

As others have already mentioned, the Inhumans unfortunately ended up with a massive stigma against them because of the boneheaded way Marvel chose to market them. Marvel seemed very much to believe the old lie that controversy = automatic sales and that any publicity is good publicity, and all it did was cause a bunch of people to dislike the Inhuman books on principle. I'm not sure why certain books caught on like Ms. Marvel while most others didn't, other than perhaps Ms. Marvel having the good fortune of avoiding a lot of the hate by not having too much of an ongoing tie to the ongoing Inhumans family (seriously, you could make her a mutant, an Eternal descendant or any other fictional species in the movie and very little about her backstory would change). And it's not just a quality issue, because Mosaic and a few other titles like Black Bolt, Royals and Inhumans: Once and Future Kings were absolutely outstanding.

[Mike_Murdock]

1. not have the first issue be overpriced. They put an immediate barrier up on the very first issue that gave people another reason not to try it

The first issue released of Mosaic was free. It was a digital only preview comic released before the full launch. They then followed that up with an oversized first issue. They then shipped more free copies of issue #1 for comic shops to do what they wanted with (pair with the second issue, give for free, whatever). People complained that they were doing it to artificially increase their sale.

2. not foster so much hate between inhuman and x-men fans. The book got a double whamm of not only being minority lead (which brought hate) but also being inhuman (brought the wrath of xmen hate)

X-Men fans were angry at the Inhumans since Inhumanity and Inhuman. Marvel was paying up on the hatred that already existed, they didn't create it.

3. Should have had him pop up in the main inhuman book first and then got into his origin story, although I have no idea of the logistics of that obviously.

Would the Inhumans books have really brought a ton of extra readers for Mosaic based on a single guest appearance?

[Rumble]

I did not @ you sir and if I did my apologizes.

I'm just messin with ya mr. skyvolt.

You did no such harm to me

I don't think there's even an @ function on this board

Sana Amanat is the director of content and character development at Marvel Comics. She's the reason you have Ms Marvel.

Would things improve if more of her ilk and ethics proliferated the industry in high ranking top management positions? I'm talking like half. Is she about that life now? How about if half her direct reports and half of the people who cut her checks were of similar ilk? We don't have to fight (I was messin with ya), i just want your perspective.

[Snoop Dogg]

Being Inhuman isn't really relevant to a character's success or failure, I feel. Two of the biggest new characters are Inhumans and a lot of the conspiracy theory X-Men paranoia feels like just internet forum stuff. But it's just really hard to launch characters cold. Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl were really well-timed to exist alongside big Marvel relaunches and got a lot of eyes on them, plus some legacy character DNA. Mosaic was also part of a relaunch, but there was so much crazy stuff in motion that season it felt more like the oxygen was being sucked away from him. There are so many uncontrollable factors when it comes to new character success, but the tried and true methods are still to give them strong connections to already popular characters, and to introduce them in popular/flagship books. Still though, I respect all attempts at projects like Mosaic, because no matter what, we all still get a cool comic.

[Rumble]

I'd have to disagree here. I think it is great that Marvel tries to push a Share or Dora's book.

Just going by the reaction of this thread people don't like how those books handled things in relation to T'Challa and that hurt them, but I won't blame Marvel for taking the initiative especially after the BP movie it would be foolish not to try.

Also I imagine its incredibly hard to gauge fan interest on certain things. You can't go by twitter of forums. Those 20 to 100 people might not truly represent the readership, hell they might just be pirating everything. I get why companies play it safe. Fortunately, Marvel is in this unique position where comics have almost become R&D for them, as they can lay the groundwork for movies, tv shows, video games etc. etc.

I'm just saying if you look at things from an Executives standpoint, why couldn't a Shuri book work. Many other secondary characters get spin-offs. Look at all the Batman spin-of. The Super-Man spin-offs. The Peter Parker spin-offs. Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon beloved by mainstream audiences the world over, but as far as comic readership goes its not even 1% of the moviegoing audience.

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I think you're essentially saying that a Shuri book in general is a great idea and Marvel should push for a Shuri book, in general, correct? If so, I agree. I'd go as far and say Shuri should have got her book before the love and hiphop Doras take NY mini. But i digress

What I'm saying though, is that this Nnedi-written Shuri book with the doo-doo art (yes yes, art is subjective, no baby is ugly, whatever..) was an easy pick for dead on arrival given several factors that had nothing to do with Shuri as a character. Tho dead on arrival is lazy talk for it'll be in cancellation zone if not cancelled by mid-season. Technically 30k opening isn't bad. Now if you disagree with that and thought the Nnedi-Shuri book would do well, i dunno what to say :/

[Snoop Dogg]

It's way too early to start talking about Shuri's success or failure. It went to a second printing and books like that are much stronger in areas like digital sales and trades. The book certainly has eyes on it with the character breaking out from the movie. Let's just give it time.

[Rumble]

Being Inhuman isn't really relevant to a character's success or failure, I feel. Two of the biggest new characters are Inhumans and a lot of the conspiracy theory X-Men paranoia feels like just internet forum stuff. But it's just really hard to launch characters cold. Ms. Marvel and Moon Girl were really well-timed to exist alongside big Marvel relaunches and got a lot of eyes on them, plus some legacy character DNA. Mosaic was also part of a relaunch, but there was so much crazy stuff in motion that season it felt more like the oxygen was being sucked away from him. There are so many uncontrollable factors when it comes to new character success, but the tried and true methods are still to give them strong connections to already popular characters, and to introduce them in popular/flagship books. Still though, I respect all attempts at projects like Mosaic, because no matter what, we all still get a cool comic.

Well said. There were certain factors going on during that time period, including that whole ANAD Oprah era of everybody gets a book, that i kinda saw early where things were going to end with Mosaic, some hopeful optimism aside. And Nighthawk (no optimism)

I'm proud of Kamala's persistence, even though she's been in a downward spiral the past year or so, i think..

It's way too early to start talking about Shuri's success or failure. It went to a second printing and books like that are much stronger in areas like digital sales and trades. The book certainly has eyes on it with the character breaking out from the movie. Let's just give it time.

We already made bets on the over/under, with the loser having to wear a storm avi for a week (trust me, that's pretty serious consequences around these parts).

[Klaue's Mixtape]

[XPac]

Moon Girl is a whole different conversation.

She like Ms Marvel has the benefit of winning over a certain demo-GIRLS and when you win them over (and especially their PARENTS) you can have success.
She, Ms Marvel, WASP, America, X-23 and some of the HATED books of the entitlement crew are having success outside of comic book stores for a reason.

Shuri is going to be the same way.




Same here-no one I talked to hated the book. They all liked it.



Which is interesting since folks forget he did have a mini years ago and was hanging with Deadpool. So him nor those other mercs (who had mini & ongoings in the past) got shots.

But like so many original created guys-they got ignored because folks had to hate buy Ms Marvel & Squirrel Girl to throw fits on youtube.
Sad when guys at OTHER companies have to yell "can you stop throwing fits about Marvel and support us?"

Hey, whatever works.

If the girl demographic is actually willing to support minority characters in comics, then marvel has a foothold they can build off of. Works well with creating synergy with Disney too.

[Ezyo1000]

I'd have to disagree here. I think it is great that Marvel tries to push a Share or Dora's book.

Just going by the reaction of this thread people don't like how those books handled things in relation to T'Challa and that hurt them, but I won't blame Marvel for taking the initiative especially after the BP movie it would be foolish not to try.

Also I imagine its incredibly hard to gauge fan interest on certain things. You can't go by twitter of forums. Those 20 to 100 people might not truly represent the readership, hell they might just be pirating everything. I get why companies play it safe. Fortunately, Marvel is in this unique position where comics have almost become R&D for them, as they can lay the groundwork for movies, tv shows, video games etc. etc.

I'm just saying if you look at things from an Executives standpoint, why couldn't a Shuri book work. Many other secondary characters get spin-offs. Look at all the Batman spin-of. The Super-Man spin-offs. The Peter Parker spin-offs. Black Panther was a cultural phenomenon beloved by mainstream audiences the world over, but as far as comic readership goes its not even 1% of the moviegoing audience.

Rumble wasn't saying they shouldn't of done a Shuri book or a Dora book. Hell that's been discussed here for years before BP even made a debut. People have been going on for a while about how Rich the mythos is and how a Shuri book, a Dora book, and a HZ book would be great.. problem with marvel though is timing and effort.

Look bat how long they took to do Rise? They should of had that going to coincide with the movie, Shuris book should of debutwd months ago, the Dora book should of been about established Doras and honestly should of taken a back seat to a Shuri book and more importantly Rise.

Look at the art for BP wow 1-5 then wow 6 or LLTK and WK forever to Rise or the crew. That art on those books/ issues was straight dooky compared to crew Rise and Wow#6

And it shows lack of confidence and weakens the book before it arrives

[Rumble]

Rumble wasn't saying they shouldn't of done a Shuri book or a Dora book. Hell that's been discussed here for years before BP even made a debut. People have been going on for a while about how Rich the mythos is and how a Shuri book, a Dora book, and a HZ book would be great.. problem with marvel though is timing and effort.

Look bat how long they took to do Rise? They should of had that going to coincide with the movie, Shuris book should of debutwd months ago, the Dora book should of been about established Doras and honestly should of taken a back seat to a Shuri book and more importantly Rise.

Look at the art for BP wow 1-5 then wow 6 or LLTK and WK forever to Rise or the crew. That art on those books/ issues was straight dooky compared to crew Rise and Wow#6

And it shows lack of confidence and weakens the book before it arrives

Thank you Ezyo

[Holt]

Being Inhuman isn't really relevant to a character's success or failure, I feel.

Depends on how you look at it. Ms. Marvel was pretty much the exception to the rule; nothing else in the Inhuman franchise had any staying power, with Moon Girl herself only being saved by the book order circuit. Even the really, really good Inhumans related titles didn't move a lot of issues, which is a shame because Black Bolt was absolutely amazing (when you can move people to tears with a story about the damn Absorbing Man, you've done something really right). I think the backlash against the franchise over the idiotic marketing was one factor, but I think the other one may just be that the Inhumans have never been all that huge a franchise, historically, which is something a lot of people miss. They've never really had a lot of success in an ongoing capacity; even their best regarded story, the excellent Marvel Knights run by Paul Jenkins and Jae Lee, was just a maxi-series.

Sometimes Marvel is successful able to get readers to give a chance to books or teams they formerly ignored, but oftentimes history just repeats itself.

[KingNomarch]

[Jabare]

Correct me if I'm mistaken but I think you're essentially saying that a Shuri book in general is a great idea and Marvel should push for a Shuri book, in general, correct? If so, I agree. I'd go as far and say Shuri should have got her book before the love and hiphop Doras take NY mini. But i digress

What I'm saying though, is that this Nnedi-written Shuri book with the doo-doo art (yes yes, art is subjective, no baby is ugly, whatever..) was an easy pick for dead on arrival given several factors that had nothing to do with Shuri as a character. Tho dead on arrival is lazy talk for it'll be in cancellation zone if not cancelled by mid-season. Technically 30k opening isn't bad. Now if you disagree with that and thought the Nnedi-Shuri book would do well, i dunno what to say :/

Rumble wasn't saying they shouldn't of done a Shuri book or a Dora book. Hell that's been discussed here for years before BP even made a debut. People have been going on for a while about how Rich the mythos is and how a Shuri book, a Dora book, and a HZ book would be great.. problem with marvel though is timing and effort.

Look bat how long they took to do Rise? They should of had that going to coincide with the movie, Shuris book should of debutwd months ago, the Dora book should of been about established Doras and honestly should of taken a back seat to a Shuri book and more importantly Rise.

Look at the art for BP wow 1-5 then wow 6 or LLTK and WK forever to Rise or the crew. That art on those books/ issues was straight dooky compared to crew Rise and Wow#6

And it shows lack of confidence and weakens the book before it arrives

ah okay I misunderstood