T'Challa: Black Panther Appreciation 2018

[Blind Wedjat]

Regarding the video, yea I stopped watching when he said the cast have no chemistry with each other. Couldn't get any more wrong than that.

Frankly anyone that has to remind you that they're black regarding their negative opinion of this movie is low key saying "Don't you dare disregard my opinion!"

I think we'll just do what Ezyo said, yea?

[Blind Wedjat]

Let's do that then. Let's start listing off the stuff we liked and discuss that for 5+ pages instead of what's been going on of late. That's a convo I can get on

This will take forever for me to list off all the things I liked lol, but I'll do it bit by bit.

Something I did notice as of late though:

"Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved."

I didn't pay that much attention to this line by Shuri the 10+ times I've seen Black Panther, but only a few days ago did it hit me that it's the entire theme of the movie summarised in one line of dialogue. Just because Wakanda's isolationist policies have been working for them doesn't mean they shouldn't improve their policies.

And the funny thing is, when Killmonger comes to the throne room and lays out his points, Shuri looks uncomfortable, like she agrees with him but can't say so or can see he's an extremist. They deliberately show this and I didn't even pick up on it.

[skyvolt2000]

Haven't watched the video, but I don't think being black should give anyone a trump card over nitpicking or having problematic opinions.

The issue isn't being black. The issue is many of these complainers-haven't seen the movie and are judging it by trailers or heresay.

It gets to the point of do you want the film or not? Because in the end Marvel nor Disney had to do this film. Be thankful it got made.

Because there are folks who didn't want it made and do enough nitpicking in hopes a second one doesn't get made. With plenty of insults to folks who went to see the film and just wanted to be ENTERTAINED.
While movies like Transformers get free passes. Or it's someone else's fault (Justice League).

And I am tired of this white folks can't say anything about the film negative nonsense. That critics were bullied into giving good reviews.

Hard to get legit comments when that nonsense is being put out way more than anything else.

A person with a brain cell can come up with a legit criticisms of the film. The issue we are seeing and not limited to films is the legion of folks who can't do that without an INSULT.
Insulting Coogler's father or every black woman in the film or preaching this film will put Disney out of business-will get you ignored.

His complaints with Panther-are really general complaints with Marvel films-yet to pander to certain groups bashing Panther is the way to go.

Meanwhile box office don't lie.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

The poster at ComicBookMovie.com (who I know because I have an account there as well) was trying to say that films like Logan and The Dark Knight have a "prestigious" look especially in regards to cinematography that makes people who like them think they're better, but actually lack a lot of depth or at least do not have as much depth as Black Panther.

In essence, Logan is a comic book movie ashamed of being one and looks like and feels like a typical Oscar-bait film, and while it might be a good film it isn't as deep as a lot of people think it is. Meanwhile, BP looks like most comic book movies, isn't ashamed of what it is, but goes the extra mile to be deep in it's script.

Basically, style over substance. Logan presents a very stylish package with the blood and gore, spaghetti western aesthetic, film grain and drama movie cinematography, but take all those things away and it is a film we have seen before and isn't that rich. Black Panther on the other hand is actually a rich film beyond it's visuals.



I once said it on ComicBookMovie.com that Logan (a film I actually did enjoy and think is great) in the grand scheme of things was forgettable and I got attacked for it. Honestly the numbers speak for themselves. Logan got an Oscar nomination but like many movies that do, they're not talked about a month after release. How many people were actually talking about Logan after it came out? What kind of pop culture impact has it really had?

This really comes from the fact that the X-Men film franchise hasn't transitioned well into this decade. The only superhero property from FOX that has achieved some form of pop culture status this decade is Deadpool, which while related to isn't part of the X-Men franchise. Marvel has had Avengers (2012), Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 1, Black Panther, and Avengers: Infinity War. DC has had The Dark Knight Rises and Wonder Woman. Even individual character properties from both studios are more relevant today than the X-Men.

I don't think Logan was ashamed I think it just embraced the real craft of visual art. He's right that Black Panther was deeper, but why must Wakanda (AFRICA) look generic comicbooky in terms of filter and camera usage. Why can't the craft of Panther match the story. Why must it look like every Marvel film? It can operate on both levels. Think of how amazing the movie would look and feel if they allowed craftsman to do what they do. Its a critical thing that helps a movie age well. A film can be rich in themes and visuals. BP's are still great, but we all know it could have been NEXT LEVEL. I mean look at The Dark Knight. If you FILMED that movie like a typical Marvel film, or previous comic book film it would have somewhat stunted the Joker's impact. No matter how amazing he was in that film the visuals allowed for us to go "Oh snap this seems really real or the substance is able to reach the surface."


Also isn't BlackBeltJones over at comicbookmovie? I remember him months ago saying that Coogler transcended the Marvel brand but only to a point. In both thematically and story (still amazing).

Why not let him go all the way with the sequel in terms of pure craft. I want some War Kar Wai sh*t in the Black Panther sequel night scenes. Some Blade Runner 2049 visuals that's outta this world. It can be done. Sometimes the surface can impact just how serious one should take the topics you are trying to get across. Ryan did a great job with it, but still through full on Marvel lens.



Positivity: Denzel cried during Black Panther
https://twitter.com/RichieDriss/stat...42453109747713

[Dboi654]

https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews/stat...34700142399489



https://twitter.com/DRMovieNews/stat...34983476076544


This is about the consensus you'll find.

Ehh. I have seen worse where someone on youtube called Black Panther the worst MCU movie ever made while giving Infinity War a high praise.

Sometimes you just have to come to understand that not everyone will get the statement a movie was trying to say so its best to just leave these groups of people out.

What is the most important thing is whether you as an individual liked the move or not.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Black Panther as a stand Alone movie, was vastly superior to Infinity Wars in everything other than the CGI fight between T'challa and Killmonger.

The only thing I liked about IW was Dr Strange.

Yeah, but Infinity Wars was never meant as a stand alone movie, what with being the fourth in a series.

You might as well call Black Panther a bad 'Captain America 4'

[Blind Wedjat]

I don't think Logan was ashamed I think it just embraced the real craft of visual art. He's right that Black Panther was deeper, but why must Wakanda (AFRICA) look generic comicbooky in terms of filter and camera usage. Why can't the craft of Panther match the story. Why must it look like every Marvel film? It can operate on both levels. Think of how amazing the movie would look and feel if they allowed craftsman to do what they do. Its a critical thing that helps a movie age well. A film can be rich in themes and visuals. BP's are still great, but we all know it could have been NEXT LEVEL. I mean look at The Dark Knight. If you FILMED that movie like a typical Marvel film, or previous comic book film it would have somewhat stunted the Joker's impact. No matter how amazing he was in that film the visuals allowed for us to go "Oh snap this seems really real or the substance is able to reach the surface."


Also isn't BlackBeltJones over at comicbookmovie? I remember him months ago saying that Coogler transcended the Marvel brand but only to a point. In both thematically and story (still amazing).

Why not let him go all the way with the sequel in terms of pure craft. I want some War Kar Wai sh*t in the Black Panther sequel night scenes. Some Blade Runner 2049 visuals that's outta this world. It can be done. Sometimes the surface can impact just how serious one should take the topics you are trying to get across. Ryan did a great job with it, but still through full on Marvel lens.



Positivity: Denzel cried during Black Panther
https://twitter.com/RichieDriss/stat...42453109747713

Here's the short answer: Because that's not Marvel's style.

Here's the long answer: I don't disagree with you, and I do think both BP movies and MCU can also look better, but as I've said before, a lot of people are overlooking things and nitpicking.

Here's a simple test. Go and look at how T'Challa's hair and skin looks like in 90% of the scenes in BP, and compare how he looks in Civil War and Infinity War. There is a BIG difference. In BP, the undertones of skin and the blackness and richness of his hair are allowed to show. In the other movies, that looks washed out. Go look at it and see for yourself. His hair looks grey, his skin looks dull and the suit doesn't look as vibrant. Meanwhile in his own movie my guy was literally glowing and that's because the colour grading, hair and make up, and cinematography were meant to suit what he and the rest of the black cast look like. There are many other examples of this as well.

And frankly I disagree. I don't think Wakanda looked generic at all. The opening shots of Wakanda in the film as well as the shots used after Killmonger's death are some of if not the best visuals I've seen in a comic book movie. Plus the Ancestral Plane, the sunset fight and Killmonger's last moments? The casino fight and the car chase? How many MCU sequences are as visually impressive as those? It's only recently Marvel has started embracing a stronger visual style. This is the same studio that was pretty much notorious for having "ugly" looking films (there's a famous YouTube video) on the subject.

Honestly I don't get it. Black Panther does a whole lot of the things people have been criticising the MCU for not doing (stronger acting performances, a main character that isn't typically witty and quippy, less and smarter placed humour, greater emphasis on bolder colours and cinematography, a memorable musical score, a well developed villain, a better and useful supporting cast). Yet people still go out of their way to nitpick.

[Ezyo1000]

Black guy..are his points fair or nitpicking?

I had a whole thing typed out, but I'll let T'Challa take this one

[Ezyo1000]

This will take forever for me to list off all the things I liked lol, but I'll do it bit by bit.

Something I did notice as of late though:

"Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved."

I didn't pay that much attention to this line by Shuri the 10+ times I've seen Black Panther, but only a few days ago did it hit me that it's the entire theme of the movie summarised in one line of dialogue. Just because Wakanda's isolationist policies have been working for them doesn't mean they shouldn't improve their policies.

And the funny thing is, when Killmonger comes to the throne room and lays out his points, Shuri looks uncomfortable, like she agrees with him but can't say so or can see he's an extremist. They deliberately show this and I didn't even pick up on it.

It crazy how many subtle themes there are. Shuris line. The who are you/show then who you are lines, the I never freeze line meaning later on, to music to, to Fight scene break down..

The ancestral plane scene's and their meanings were brilliant as well

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Here's the short answer: Because that's not Marvel's style.

Here's the long answer: I don't disagree with you, and I do think both BP movies and MCU can also look better, but as I've said before, a lot of people are overlooking things and nitpicking.

Here's a simple test. Go and look at how T'Challa's hair and skin looks like in 90% of the scenes in BP, and compare how he looks in Civil War and Infinity War. There is a BIG difference. In BP, the undertones of skin and the blackness and richness of his hair are allowed to show. In the other movies, that looks washed out. Go look at it and see for yourself. His hair looks grey, his skin looks dull and the suit doesn't look as vibrant. Meanwhile in his own movie my guy was literally glowing and that's because the colour grading, hair and make up, and cinematography were meant to suit what he and the rest of the black cast look like. There are many other examples of this as well.

And frankly I disagree. I don't think Wakanda looked generic at all. The opening shots of Wakanda in the film as well as the shots used after Killmonger's death are some of if not the best visuals I've seen in a comic book movie. Plus the Ancestral Plane, the sunset fight and Killmonger's last moments? The casino fight and the car chase? How many MCU sequences are as visually impressive as those? It's only recently Marvel has started embracing a stronger visual style. This is the same studio that was pretty much notorious for having "ugly" looking films (there's a famous YouTube video) on the subject.

Honestly I don't get it. Black Panther does a whole lot of the things people have been criticising the MCU for not doing (stronger acting performances, a main character that isn't typically witty and quippy, less and smarter placed humour, greater emphasis on bolder colours and cinematography, a memorable musical score, a well developed villain, a better and useful supporting cast). Yet people still go out of their way to nitpick.

Again going back to BlackBeltJones point....it would only go to a point.

The big battle looked like typical Marvel stuff. This is AFRICA. The land and the surrounding areas should be enthralling throughout that battle. Instead it seemed like it was shot in the a small piece of land they could afford in Atlanta. Many things you point out are right. Coogler and crew stretch/test the Marvel limits as well as they can for the most part. Lupita is practically glistening in some scenes




My point still stands that it could have truly been next level throughout the entire movie. Instead Marvel doesn't want there to be a vast difference from film to film and that restricts Black Panther's full potential imo.

Look at how stunning the visuals are from Beasts of No Nation.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I really hope you watch this trailer here (because it looks like a great movie as well). I WOULD love for this look and images to show up as well

[Klaue's Mixtape]

This will take forever for me to list off all the things I liked lol, but I'll do it bit by bit.

Something I did notice as of late though:

"Just because something works doesn't mean it can't be improved."

I didn't pay that much attention to this line by Shuri the 10+ times I've seen Black Panther, but only a few days ago did it hit me that it's the entire theme of the movie summarised in one line of dialogue. Just because Wakanda's isolationist policies have been working for them doesn't mean they shouldn't improve their policies.

And the funny thing is, when Killmonger comes to the throne room and lays out his points, Shuri looks uncomfortable, like she agrees with him but can't say so or can see he's an extremist. They deliberately show this and I didn't even pick up on it.

There are so many little moments and bits of nuance that I love in this movie. So many glances and looks that get so underrated elsewhere. Far more meaningful than the "heavy stuff" in IW.

I think this is one of the best scenes I've seen not just in comic book movies, but in film in a long time.

[Ezyo1000]

Here's the short answer: Because that's not Marvel's style.

Here's the long answer: I don't disagree with you, and I do think both BP movies and MCU can also look better, but as I've said before, a lot of people are overlooking things and nitpicking.

Here's a simple test. Go and look at how T'Challa's hair and skin looks like in 90% of the scenes in BP, and compare how he looks in Civil War and Infinity War. There is a BIG difference. In BP, the undertones of skin and the blackness and richness of his hair are allowed to show. In the other movies, that looks washed out. Go look at it and see for yourself. His hair looks grey, his skin looks dull and the suit doesn't look as vibrant. Meanwhile in his own movie my guy was literally glowing and that's because the colour grading, hair and make up, and cinematography were meant to suit what he and the rest of the black cast look like. There are many other examples of this as well.

And frankly I disagree. I don't think Wakanda looked generic at all. The opening shots of Wakanda in the film as well as the shots used after Killmonger's death are some of if not the best visuals I've seen in a comic book movie. Plus the Ancestral Plane, the sunset fight and Killmonger's last moments? The casino fight and the car chase? How many MCU sequences are as visually impressive as those? It's only recently Marvel has started embracing a stronger visual style. This is the same studio that was pretty much notorious for having "ugly" looking films (there's a famous YouTube video) on the subject.

Honestly I don't get it. Black Panther does a whole lot of the things people have been criticising the MCU for not doing (stronger acting performances, a main character that isn't typically witty and quippy, less and smarter placed humour, greater emphasis on bolder colours and cinematography, a memorable musical score, a well developed villain, a better and useful supporting cast). Yet people still go out of their way to nitpick.

Damn Wedjat your on fire today!

I would also like to add. The whole point of Wakanda wasn't to look like this super star wars advanced alien looking place. But rather 25+ years in the future with actual realistic advance tech we could see in our lifetime, with a compliment to African history and culture. I don't want Wakanda to be a blade runner ripoff. It is it sown unique place and it looks spectacular

[Cville]

Don't remember if it's been posted, but Panthers Quest starts on September 23rd.

[Dboi654]

Again going back to BlackBeltJones point....it would only go to a point.

The big battle looked like typical Marvel stuff. This is AFRICA. The land and the surrounding areas should be enthralling throughout that battle. Instead it seemed like it was shot in the a small piece of land they could afford in Atlanta. Many things you point out are right. Coogler and crew stretch/test the Marvel limits as well as they can for the most part. Lupita is practically glistening in some scenes




My point still stands that it could have truly been next level throughout the entire movie. Instead Marvel doesn't want there to be a vast difference from film to film and that restricts Black Panther's full potential imo.

Look at how stunning the visuals are from Beasts of No Nation.

I heard Nate More saying that they wanted to film some scenes in Africa but that would be expensive on top of the supposedly 200 million dollar budget. Also you have to note that the continent of Africa is extremely hot and you don't want Chadwick covered in an all black suit running around at a temperature of 90-100 Fahrenheit all sweaty and running out of breath due to the heat which can cause someone to faint and all. Also, the insurance for the cast members will be increased significantly as they are prone to diseases such as Malaria which is known to have cause a lot of deaths in Africa in general. Even Idris Elba talked about how he almost died while filming Beast of No Nation along with the director.

While filming in Africa may have added to the authenticity of the film, they are still other factors that one most look at which could cost the studio a lot of money and hassle, which is why I understand why the studio didn't go that route.