Victor Von Doom: Doctor Doom appreciation 2018

[Abe]

Well... about Thor #6 I can't say that I was really disappointed by that version of Doom....because I didn't expect much from a storytelling set in the most far future of the Marvel Universe where Galactus is already dead... It's not supposed to happen that way . It's probably an interesting Thor story though. But it's about Thor and I didn't expect it to say much about Victor then. The idea was kinda cool in a way... But as we suspected all wasn't really satisfying.

Nevertheless it allowed Ward to put on paper some truly impressive work, unlike most we've seen I think, so I guess that this issue should be remembered well. (And there's a lot of action in it. And the writing is quite good if you don't care that much about Doom )

[Abe]

Hi all! Occasional CBR lurker, first time poster here. A very random request but I was wondering if anyone knew if there was an archive of the old CBR's Doom Appreciation Thread? I was trying to find it a while ago using the Wayback Machine but no luck, unfortunately.

Welcome! That's a great first post!

[Abe]

I miss Infamous Iron Man too...We need a Doom book!

I was thinking about it reading the last issue of Bendis' Pearl a few days ago. At the end of the issue Bendis talks a lot about his Jinxworld and about the artists he's working with. And he really insists about important are the colours for each book. And pages from Infamous came into my mind...

[connorhawkes]

Welcome! That's a great first post!

Thank you! Happy to be here.

I saved all the PDFs and was trying to think of a way to make them accessible. If there was interest, I suppose I could create a public folder in Imageshack.

I was definitely curious about that older thread but if it's a lot of work, you don't have to make a folder! I'm sure there were a lot of pages

I really do miss Infamous Iron Man, even though I did have some issues with Bendis's writing. Like redefining the mother/child relationship. Canon says that Victor was very young when she was killed, not as old as we saw in the flashbacks in Infamous IM.

I agree. I didn't care for the age retcon or that he resents his mother. His love and loyalty to her is such a crucial trait.

[Iron Maiden]

I was definitely curious about that older thread but if it's a lot of work, you don't have to make a folder! I'm sure there were a lot of pages

There were. I recall there was a system wide flushing of most if not all of the forums. There was a criminal element to it as I recall. A CBR writer (female) started to get stalked and threatened because of an opinion piece. It just went off into a dark direction.

I agree. I didn't care for the age retcon or that he resents his mother. His love and loyalty to her is such a crucial trait.

Exactly. The thing about Doom is that he didn't have abusive parents as you see in some origins of villains. His mother was misguided and paid for her extremely bad judgement in dealing with dark forces even if it was for a good reason. Her dying request to her husband was to keep their son safe from such influences. The GN Triumph and Torment was written to give her character redemption for her sins and IMO there's no reason to revisit that. That he lost both of his parents while still quite young is an important piece of his characterization. But he brought about a balance of the scales for both of them by killing King Vladimir, who had a hand in his fathers death and then by freeing his mother's soul.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

There were. I recall there was a system wide flushing of most if not all of the forums. There was a criminal element to it as I recall. A CBR writer (female) started to get stalked and threatened because of an opinion piece. It just went off into a dark direction.




Exactly. The thing about Doom is that he didn't have abusive parents as you see in some origins of villains. His mother was misguided and paid for her extremely bad judgement in dealing with dark forces even if it was for a good reason. Her dying request to her husband was to keep their son safe from such influences. The GN Triumph and Torment was written to give her character redemption for her sins and IMO there's no reason to revisit that. That he lost both of his parents while still quite young is an important piece of his characterization. But he brought about a balance of the scales for both of them by killing King Vladimir, who had a hand in his fathers death and then by freeing his mother's soul.

werner
you had ONE JOB

[DoomScribe]

werner
you had ONE JOB

In the Triumph and Torment graphic novel, Werner tries multiple times to destroy Cynthia's chest of magic books, spells, and artifacts, but it kept reappearing in his caravan. In the end, he tried to bury it among their other possessions. He could not have known that he too would suffer an early death, leaving young Victor to discover the chest and magic on his own. So don't blame Werner. Magic (and demons) had a hand in it too.

ds

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

In the Triumph and Torment graphic novel, Werner tries multiple times to destroy Cynthia's chest of magic books, spells, and artifacts, but it kept reappearing in his caravan. In the end, he tried to bury it among their other possessions. He could not have known that he too would suffer an early death, leaving young Victor to discover the chest and magic on his own. So don't blame Werner. Magic (and demons) had a hand in it too.

ds

I'm not saying he didn't try.
I'm just saying it's amusing how colossally he failed.

[Iron Maiden]

I'm not saying he didn't try.
I'm just saying it's amusing how colossally he failed.

People handle grief in different ways. I think it was in Books of Doom where it says that his father wouldn't talk to Victor about his mother after her death. But when his father died is when it triggered the rage in young Victor and he resolved to take revenge on the world.

[DoomScribe]

There was another little gem in last week's comics, if you missed it: True Believer's "What if Dr. Doom Had Become a Hero" , a reprinting of What if..? #22. Includes a bit of the origin tale, and the battle with Mephisto over the soul of Doom's mother takes a twist when he succeeds. But then a classic, tragic turn.

The original story was from 1980, so it predates the Triumph and Torment graphic novel by about 9 years. It also posits that there is some reason why Doom is the rightful heir to the throne of Latveria (which is confirmed by Prince Rudolfo from Astonishing Tales - now King). Yet refers to him as gypsy spawn throughout. So the question is, is Doom heir to the throne by right of blood, or some other reason? And how would Rudolfo know that but no one else (including all of Latveria)?

I dislike the idea of either of Doom's parents being royalty, the story is better if he is risen up from common folks. Unless they were a generation or two removed from the royal line, perhaps as the result of some ancient coup. But there could be some ancient legend or prophecy that Doom discovered in the old books and texts he found, or that was passed along in some oral tradition long forgotten. That would make a better story.

ds

[Iron Maiden]

There was another little gem in last week's comics, if you missed it: True Believer's "What if Dr. Doom Had Become a Hero" , a reprinting of What if..? #22. Includes a bit of the origin tale, and the battle with Mephisto over the soul of Doom's mother takes a twist when he succeeds. But then a classic, tragic turn.

The original story was from 1980, so it predates the Triumph and Torment graphic novel by about 9 years. It also posits that there is some reason why Doom is the rightful heir to the throne of Latveria (which is confirmed by Prince Rudolfo from Astonishing Tales - now King). Yet refers to him as gypsy spawn throughout. So the question is, is Doom heir to the throne by right of blood, or some other reason? And how would Rudolfo know that but no one else (including all of Latveria)?

I dislike the idea of either of Doom's parents being royalty, the story is better if he is risen up from common folks. Unless they were a generation or two removed from the royal line, perhaps as the result of some ancient coup. But there could be some ancient legend or prophecy that Doom discovered in the old books and texts he found, or that was passed along in some oral tradition long forgotten. That would make a better story.

ds

I also picked up this comic for $1.00 last week. Those True Believers issues are a bargain except you don't get the free digital code with the comic.

As you mention, this comic was printed well before Triumph and Torment. Notably, it is in this story that we see that the soul of Victor's mother's soul is in possession of Mephisto. The story in Astonishing Tales #8 never names the demon entity that Doom does battle with. I have to wonder if it was just a coincidence that writer Gerry Conway made the same distinction in his GN Triumph and Torment.

Now that we have information at our fingertips via the internet, I remember when I bought What If #22 I was curious about the creative team of Don Glut as writer and Fred Kida as artist. First of all, Fred Kida was a Japanese-American born in New York in 1920 and passed away in 2015 You can read a tribute to his career in comics on The Comics Journal site . Kida got started working in the comics industry in 1941

When Will Eisner was drafted into the U.S. Army in 1941, Fred broke into comics as an inker and background artist at the Jerry Iger Studio, formerly Eisner & Iger, one of the earliest "packagers" of outsourced content for comic book publishers, doing background inks on Eisner’s syndicated "The Spirit."

Kida did contact Stan Lee in 1959 and that lead to assignments on titles like Strange Tales, Two Gun Kid. He also worked for Dell and Charleton Comics. Kida's panel at the end of the What If issues does a great job of evoking Gene Colan's work on Astonishing Tales #8, where "shadows are king" in Doom's castle.

Writer Don Glut works mostly in film and television these days but had worked for Marvel and Warren publications among others.




I agree with you about Doom's parents. I prefer they not be direct heirs to the throne somehow. We really know very little about any past generations...who where the grandparents, etc? I think your idea works best and perhaps Doom's reign was foretold in the lore of Latveria.

As for this What If story, it never really explains the details about Victor's being the rightful heir of the throne of Latveria. We only know that when his device in college succeeds (which the help of new friend Reed Richards)in contacting his mother's soul he learns this bit of information from her. Later, a dying Prince Rodolpho confirms it.

[Iron Maiden]

Not being a fan of the revamped CBR news page, I hadn't noticed that Brian Cronin had another vote for Best Graphic Novels.

Both Doom-centric GN's made the top 30. The searches aren' working too well on CBR at the moment. I'll add the link to Emperor Doom when I find it!

Triumph and Torment is ranked in the Top Ten at #9

[Abe]

Thanks Iron Maiden! It was a great read!

I think Emperor Doom is #26 in the OGN list. Terror in tiny town is ranked in the 40 or something in the other list (single issue)...

[Iron Maiden]

Thanks Abe! I frequently lose patience trying to get things to load on CBR's pages. I guess it's a fight between them and my ad blocker!

[Abe]

Marvel Two in One this week is full of things designed for us...