Anna Marie: Rogue Appreciation 2018

[R0d]

Some of you... listen. Rogue was in Avengers ONLY to transplant X-Men fans onto the Avengers. Marvel's crown jewel. Since the discussions of Disney buyout began, you had to notice the smaller influences Marvel was allowing the X-Men to have on Avengers. Instead, they began to refocus the X-Men in X-Men books. Pulling them back from that side of the Marvel line. With X-Men movie rights coming back I suspect you'll see the budget for their books go up, higher stake stories and more books and projects (have you seen the fall line ups?). It's funny, the people over at the Gambit guild were afraid Gambit would just become Rogue's husband and were saying ridiculous things like they'd rather see him in limbo. Now you guys are saying the opposite and counting thread pages... Gambit is getting more thread pages because for the first time in several years he's in an ongoing. So we actually have something to talk about. MMX up until this last issue has been more Rogue than Gambit. Thats a fact. Rogue leaving the Avengers (even though she hasnt, she's just not active) isnt a step back. Its refocus, the only people that see it as such are those that looked at UA as some sort of flagship book. It hasnt been that since Remender left. Duggan wrote a bunch of self-contained stories that didnt effect a single thing outside of it, not even it's lead character Rogue, save the Deadpool kiss. Zub did even less. For the most part, Gambit's barely been visible since the end of X-Factor while Rogue's status hasnt changed. You guys sound like the woman who complained about Samuel Jackson talking more than Brie in the Captain Marvel trailer. Its not that serious. You have less people talking because 3 of the 5 Rogue superfans that posted here on a regular basis are mooping. Its the same thing over there except we went from nothing to a monthly book appearance. Nothing is wrong with Rogue's appeal or status. It was a small Twitter poll, not a national census. Out of the millions of X-Men fans out there, casual and hardcore, the top character pulled down like 200 votes. Get a grip, it doesnt mean anything other than some fans got involved more than others on Twitter.

This!!!

UA was a flagship when it started under Remender, it was the book that spinned off AvX and put together some of the most popular X-men and Avengers (Thor, Wolverine, Cap, Rogue).

But once he left and got relaunched, it became a secondary book with no repercussion outside of itself, nothing that happened in it mattered elsewhere, the Xavier's brain in the Red Skull (which was the most important storyline in Duggan's run) didn't even got a tiny mention in Charles return in Soule's AXM.

And Zub's run was even more inconsequential, it was like the editorial mandate was "just write some stuff, the book has to continue till No surrender".

People talk about the Rogue's character development in UA and somehow seem to forget that it was in that book that Rogue went back to the "Ah can't control my powers" state erasing the biggest development she had in the last two decades (to say the least) and went back to the "flying brick" mode. If getting back together with Gambit is regression and undoes her development then what happened in UA (not controlling her powers and being a flying brick again) are also regressions that undid a lot of her development.

You know how we kept the Gambit thread alive with nearly zero content for years? We started conversations. Instead of gushing 24/7, put up a conversation piece and get it going. Everything doest have to be "what Rogue did this week".

Exactly, if any of you want this thread to be more active then post here! It's hilarious that people that only post here like once a month then complain of lack of activity.

[Kalternativa]

This thread has become so toxic! I'd rather talk on the Romy thread where people are more positive. Even if I just want to talk about Rogue, or her with someone else, we're always welcome. All the news about Rogue or Remy is there. Even if you're not a fan of the couple, it's a great and fun thread. So why come here to read such nonsense? And you still wonder why this thread was dead?

[Xelossik]

If you define everything in terms of such massive categories, nothing can be new. She has been a leader, she has been on a team, she has been a teacher, she has had solo stories. There is not a lot of scope beyond that.

Marvel advartise their new relaunches as going back to 90s". That's not good for me because stories in the 90s were mostly weak.

she can join new teams, she can build new relationships
or there can be new variation of old stories

or she at least could have some goals in life (except being with Gambit) even old goals. In 90s she didn't. Good romances develop both characters as part of relationship and outside (at least for me).

[jen]

This thread has become so toxic! I'd rather talk on the Romy thread where people are more positive. Even if I just want to talk about Rogue, or her with someone else, we're always welcome. All the news about Rogue or Remy is there. Even if you're not a fan of the couple, it's a great and fun thread. So why come here to read such nonsense? And you still wonder why this thread was dead?

This thread is not toxic. That is strait up nonsense. There are quite a few ROMY fans who are Gambit stans that really enjoy Rogue. I have never seen you here, and I have been here for years. This thread is a fandom of Rogue and a fun one at that.

But since her return to the X-Men this year, it has been dead. Because her return was handled so poorly. Many Gambit stans who like Rogue don't feel her role in UA was a big deal neither did they like her Legacy run. Many Rogue fans feel the opposite. Further, many like me love Gambit but are super unhappy with a sidelined Rogue. We have lively discussions here that is all.

[DearMachine]

Marvel advartise their new relaunches as going back to 90s". That's not good for me because stories in the 90s were mostly weak.

she can join new teams, she can build new relationships
or there can be new variation of old stories

or she at least could have some goals in life (except being with Gambit) even old goals. In 90s she didn't. Good romances develop both characters as part of relationship and outside (at least for me).

From a marketing perspective, I can see why Marvel is playing up the return to the 90s. The X-Books outsold every other book on the market by at least 20k at that point. Check out this chart from 1997: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/1997-04.html (I chose it, because it's the first chart from when the distributors combined, and you can see all the books in one place.) They sold triple what they are doing on a good month at the moment.

I'm not sure why being part of a new team or forming new relationships would result in a better portrayal for Rogue. It might be a difference in tastes, but I don't necessarily care about Rogue interacting with random members of the Marvel universe with whom she has no history or real reason to connect. Rogue's tension with Synapse was one of the less interesting parts of Uncanny Avengers. For me, part of what makes the X-Men work is their chemistry with each other, and how they play off each other. At their best, they feel like a family.

Also, the X-Books need their A-listers to rebuild, and Rogue is an A-lister.

Finally, I agree that romances should develop characters inside and outside of them. But I don't think Rogue lacks personal goals in that regard. Her current goal is to help Xandra, which is intimately tied with her identity as an X-Man, and her sense of personal obligation to Xavier.

[Xelossik]

From a marketing perspective, I can see why Marvel is playing up the return to the 90s. The X-Books outsold every other book on the market by at least 20k at that point. Check out this chart from 1997: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomi...7/1997-04.html (I chose it, because it's the first chart from when the distributors combined, and you can see all the books in one place.) They sold triple what they are doing on a good month at the moment.

I agree that X-men had better sales then. I also can see why Marvel is playing up the return.

I'm not sure why being part of a new team or forming new relationships would result in a better portrayal for Rogue.

It could. It all depends who would write this book.
Maybe that would be bad. Who knows?

It might be a difference in tastes, but I don't necessarily care about Rogue interacting with random members of the Marvel universe with whom she has no history or real reason to connect. Rogue's tension with Synapse was one of the less interesting parts of Uncanny Avengers. For me, part of what makes the X-Men work is their chemistry with each other, and how they play off each other. At their best, they feel like a family.

I am interested in reading stories why and how they became family. I like dynamic world.

Also, the X-Books need their A-listers to rebuild, and Rogue is an A-lister.

Rogue is quite popular but not popular enough to be in 2 books in one time(with rare exceptions for short time she was in one book).
She is in MMX which means that there is very small chance that she will be also in different book.

Finally, I agree that romances should develop characters inside and outside of them. But I don't think Rogue lacks personal goals in that regard. Her current goal is to help Xandra, which is intimately tied with her identity as an X-Man, and her sense of personal obligation to Xavier.

She was ordered to do this right?

also:
You think that Rogue shouldn't be with Deadpool or Magneto right?
because they are evil right?

I also think that Rogue shouldn't be with Magneto(as long as he is evil), Deadpool(as long as he is evil), Gambit(as long as he is evil - being thief is evil).
Gambit is more interesting thanks to this aspect but because of that he and Rogue also should fail(at least for me).
Claremont xtreme X-men - that's series when i started think that way.

if I story would be
- Rogue is evil(because of previous developmnet)
or
- Gambit is no longer a thief (because of previous development)
or
- they were able to solve some of their previous troubles (loving each other is not enough. They loved each other for long time and they tried to live together. It didn't work).

I would enjoy it. but... she once again could (magically) control her powers for few minutes in R+G and because of that they are together.

I can't buy version that she is afraid(because of Xtreme X-men). I also don't like that he cheated her and it wasn't solved in any way.

[Gambit, King of Thieves]

why? how many months we need? 12? 6?

I was talking about thread activity. I think that 2 months - that's enough.

Do You think that this will change in next months? Gambit fans have much topic to talk about: movie, team, duo book compared to Rogue (only duo book).

Okay, I was bored so I went back and did a chi-square test.
p=.34; results are not significant.

[DearMachine]

1) I don't think there is any indication that Rogue will only be in one book, especially if Marvel is bringing back the 90s. She was one of the major X-women in the 90s. Rogue does not have a major role in Uncanny for specific story reasons. Apparently, it would have involved too much a trade-off. Also, solo books have almost never affected who appears in the main teams. They're normally because the characters are popular enough in the team setting to sustain a solo.

2) Kitty did order Rogue to retrieve Xandra's egg without telling her what was inside it, but it's very clear that she's not just following orders and has a personal investment in it.

3) Magneto and Deadpool's morality has nothing to do with why I don't think Rogue should be with them. Magneto's been directly abusive towards her, and they have next to nothing in common. I found the Deadpool interactions very fun, but, let's be honest, Deadpool is not husband material, at least not as he's being written at the moment. Again, they're ultimately very different people. What ultimately disappointed Rogue about both of them was their willingness to kill, though, which is not something Gambit does. He knows the line between thief and assassin.

Also, I think it's debatable whether being a thief is necessarily *evil*. The heroic thief is a staple of pop culture across the world. Robin Hood, Goemon, Aladdin, Simon Templar, Arsene Lupin, etc. etc. (Half the Persona in Persona 5 are famous thieves, and the game is another example of heroic thieves. :P) I would argue that Gambit fits comfortably into that tradition. We usually see him using his thieving abilities for good.

And, ugh, I cannot resurrect the Lily Penrose debate, where we all parse out the exact meaning of Skinemax and what acts could be included in it, and map out the timeline to see whether Gambit and Rogue were together.

[Xelossik]

1) I don't think there is any indication that Rogue will only be in one book, especially if Marvel is bringing back the 90s. She was one of the major X-women in the 90s. Rogue does not have a major role in Uncanny for specific story reasons. Apparently, it would have involved too much a trade-off. Also, solo books have almost never affected who appears in the main teams. They're normally because the characters are popular enough in the team setting to sustain a solo.

If Rogue would be as popular as Wolverine she would be in this event. She is not that popular. That's why she is not in this event.

This is not solo book but duo book. I agree that there is a chance but very small in my opinion. You may look at past and You will see how rare that was.

2) Kitty did order Rogue to retrieve Xandra's egg without telling her what was inside it, but it's very clear that she's not just following orders and has a personal investment in it.

why she has personal investment?

3) Magneto and Deadpool's morality has nothing to do with why I don't think Rogue should be with them. Magneto's been directly abusive towards her, and they have next to nothing in common. I found the Deadpool interactions very fun, but, let's be honest, Deadpool is not husband material, at least not as he's being written at the moment. Again, they're ultimately very different people. What ultimately disappointed Rogue about both of them was their willingness to kill, though, which is not something Gambit does. He knows the line between thief and assassin.

Magneto was abusive when they were enemies. Thats true. I agree with Deadpool.
but...
Gambit also is not husband material. or rather... He wasn't in years 1992-2016.

What ultimately disappointed Rogue about both of them was their willingness to kill, though, which is not something Gambit does.

I obviously don't agree with this.
They are doing evil things (it can be killing but it can be something different).

Also, I think it's debatable whether being a thief is necessarily *evil*. The heroic thief is a staple of pop culture across the wor.d. Robin Hood, Goemon, Aladdin, Simon Templar, Arsene Lupin, etc. etc. (Half the Persona in Persona 5 are famous thieves, and the game is another example of heroic thieves. :P) I would argue that Gambit fits comfortably into that tradition. We usually see him using his thieving abilities for good.

Gambit is not heroic thief.

That's true that sometimes he uses his skills for good but often because he likes to steal. his solo books, Uncanny Avengers 9, Astonishing X-men 1.
There is many pages in his solo where he is saying that he loves to steal. That this is his life.

And, ugh, I cannot resurrect the Lily Penrose debate, where we all parse out the exact meaning of Skinemax and what acts could be included in it, and map out the timeline to see whether Gambit and Rogue were together.

You don't want to.
RCO005.jpg
gamnit solo. Return to x-men after mission with Lily.

We can obviously ignore the fact that he was few times in x-men school during this solo... That in x-men books they were pair then. From very first day up to end of Milligan run.

[Hall]

This!!!

UA was a flagship when it started under Remender, it was the book that spinned off AvX and put together some of the most popular X-men and Avengers (Thor, Wolverine, Cap, Rogue).

But once he left and got relaunched, it became a secondary book with no repercussion outside of itself, nothing that happened in it mattered elsewhere, the Xavier's brain in the Red Skull (which was the most important storyline in Duggan's run) didn't even got a tiny mention in Charles return in Soule's AXM.

And Zub's run was even more inconsequential, it was like the editorial mandate was "just write some stuff, the book has to continue till No surrender".

People talk about the Rogue's character development in UA and somehow seem to forget that it was in that book that Rogue went back to the "Ah can't control my powers" state erasing the biggest development she had in the last two decades (to say the least) and went back to the "flying brick" mode. If getting back together with Gambit is regression and undoes her development then what happened in UA (not controlling her powers and being a flying brick again) are also regressions that undid a lot of her development.



Exactly, if any of you want this thread to be more active then post here! It's hilarious that people that only post here like once a month then complain of lack of activity.

I read the books of Rogue finally getting control then she cant do it anymore and is staring with Avengers. I have not cared about her since then but do now. Romy or Not. That just sucks to me.

[Muffinman]

This!!!

UA was a flagship when it started under Remender, it was the book that spinned off AvX and put together some of the most popular X-men and Avengers (Thor, Wolverine, Cap, Rogue).

But once he left and got relaunched, it became a secondary book with no repercussion outside of itself, nothing that happened in it mattered elsewhere, the Xavier's brain in the Red Skull (which was the most important storyline in Duggan's run) didn't even got a tiny mention in Charles return in Soule's AXM.

And Zub's run was even more inconsequential, it was like the editorial mandate was "just write some stuff, the book has to continue till No surrender".

People talk about the Rogue's character development in UA and somehow seem to forget that it was in that book that Rogue went back to the "Ah can't control my powers" state erasing the biggest development she had in the last two decades (to say the least) and went back to the "flying brick" mode. If getting back together with Gambit is regression and undoes her development then what happened in UA (not controlling her powers and being a flying brick again) are also regressions that undid a lot of her development

I couldn’t agree any less. I loved what UA did with Rogue. Projecting her as a leader of the Avengers is a HUGE step forward from being on a team of x-men. She expanded her relations within the MU and was pretty instrumental in several events across the line. Here in x-land the next event is having her absent. Personally I do hope she makes her way back to the Avengers, UA vol 3 was one of the best team books marvel has produced in year. It’s no wonder it ranked in the top 3 on the x-awards here on CBR two years in a row. Rogue was excellent under Duggan and Zub.

Rogue was the only Avenger capable of breaking through Kobiks mental hold, connected with Xavier in Axis, and the red skull points did effect other books, namely Captain America. Soule said multiple times that his book would kind of slap continuity in the face. That’s way less a demerit on Rogue than it is on soule’s writing.

If UA was starting again with the same cast it had I would be ecstatic. Rogue and Jan’s blooming friendship was cut too short.

[Xelossik]

This thread has become so toxic! I'd rather talk on the Romy thread where people are more positive. Even if I just want to talk about Rogue, or her with someone else, we're always welcome. All the news about Rogue or Remy is there. Even if you're not a fan of the couple, it's a great and fun thread. So why come here to read such nonsense? And you still wonder why this thread was dead?

Nothing compared to Gambit or R+G threads(before R+G mini).

Here people don't write post like:
-that's great that this book has weak sales (Gambit thread when UA21 had similar sales to MMX2)
-Rogue is dead because she is not with Gambit(dozens of times in both threads)

People here also don't tell others what they think unlike Romy posters.

[Xelossik]

This!!!

UA was a flagship when it started under Remender, it was the book that spinned off AvX and put together some of the most popular X-men and Avengers (Thor, Wolverine, Cap, Rogue).

yeah but so what? does it matter if this is flagship or not?

But once he left and got relaunched, it became a secondary book with no repercussion outside of itself, nothing that happened in it mattered elsewhere, the Xavier's brain in the Red Skull (which was the most important storyline in Duggan's run) didn't even got a tiny mention in Charles return in Soule's AXM.

true but so what?
MMX is also secondary book with no repercussion outside of itself
Astonishing is also repercussion outside of itself

People talk about the Rogue's character development in UA and somehow seem to forget that it was in that book that Rogue went back to the "Ah can't control my powers" state erasing the biggest development she had in the last two decades (to say the least) and went back to the "flying brick" mode. If getting back together with Gambit is regression and undoes her development then what happened in UA (not controlling her powers and being a flying brick again) are also regressions that undid a lot of her development.

Some people care about character more than powers.
You can't say that her personality was similar. There were also a lot of differences between both power sets but You clearly didn't read or don't care about details.

Exactly, if any of you want this thread to be more active then post here! It's hilarious that people that only post here like once a month then complain of lack of activity.

Gambit thread had a lot of taling about movie and about Rogue(how bad she is).
People here don't talk about not-Rogue.

[mikeb]

Do not pass Mike, in UA Rogue was always more important than Wanda.

The term Yankee Witch has nothing to do with Wanda. It's a term Rogue used in 1989's UXM #244, dealing with how Rogue felt about someone who was close (too close, perhaps! ) to at the time.

[mikeb]

Did anybody spot this, besides me? I bought X-Men Black: Magneto yesterday. In the middle was a big fold-out ad for UnCanny X-Men disassembled. On the back of that was an ad for Avengers #700. This may be just bait. In the ad, it states: "Who will be joining Earth's Mightiest Heroes in their spectacular 700th issue?" One of the pictures shown was Rogue. Here are the pic's from top to bottom:
Row 1: Nova, Depp, Ares, Black Widow
Row 2: Deadpool, Nightcrawler
Row 3: Howard the Duck, Beta Ray Bill
Row 4: Gladiator (I think), Rogue
Now I think It will probably be Black Widow because of the movies, but who knows?