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  1. #61
    Incredible Member Nox Noctes's Avatar
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    Didn't Chris Claremont originally intend to reveal that Mystique was Rogue's biological mother? I don't remember where I read that, but I would love to see that happen. I really didn't like that lame origin they came up with in Rogue's solo.

  2. #62
    Starsoul Firehair niconico00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nox Noctes View Post
    Didn't Chris Claremont originally intend to reveal that Mystique was Rogue's biological mother? I don't remember where I read that, but I would love to see that happen. I really didn't like that lame origin they came up with in Rogue's solo.
    I think Claremont originally intended for Mystique to be Rogue's original father.
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  3. #63
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niconico00 View Post
    I think Claremont originally intended for Mystique to be Rogue's original father.
    That'd be interesting, and disturbing. That'd change Mystique's powers altogether. She wouldn't be a shapeshifter, she'd be meta-morph, like Courier. He didn't just change the way he looked, he changed everything from the inside out. When he'd disguise himself as a woman [for one, it's much longer to do], he'd actually have female parts, not facsimiles like Mystique and any other shapshifter (they just move parts of their body mass around to suit specific purposes, which is why they shouldn't get physically stronger or weaker unless they modify their density). Which is how he got stuck as a woman once. Well he didn't get "stuck", he just lost his original "male" body. He could always transform back into his male form, but it wasn't permanent anymore. One of the funnier things Mr. Sinister has done. Theoretically, as a woman, Courier could get pregnant and as man, impregnate a woman.
    Last edited by donpricetag; 08-27-2018 at 05:20 AM.
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  4. #64
    Mighty Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Of course, that might be why Anna's maiden name was never revealed. If she's Mystique's daughter for real, then her surname is Darkholme, which I wouldn't blame her for keeping secret!
    I think nobody would do it XD.

    I hope that Marvel takes this step in some future story, and reveals that Mystique was always her true mother.

    Already the father, can be approached later.

  5. #65
    Mighty Member Omegarogue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nox Noctes View Post
    Didn't Chris Claremont originally intend to reveal that Mystique was Rogue's biological mother? I don't remember where I read that, but I would love to see that happen. I really didn't like that lame origin they came up with in Rogue's solo.
    That's right, CC wanted to reveal this.

    And I think we're still on time and it's the most viable option.

    _______


    That origin in his alone, was so badly devised and explained, that he was not even convincing in solo, that's why everyone ignores him.

    Mystique biological mother is more viable.

  6. #66
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omegarogue View Post
    That's right, CC wanted to reveal this.

    And I think we're still on time and it's the most viable option.

    _______


    That origin in his alone, was so badly devised and explained, that he was not even convincing in solo, that's why everyone ignores him.

    Mystique biological mother is more viable.
    Only if you can explain away the need for the decades-long ruse. Then you'd have to explain who the mother is. Doubt it be Destiny, at no point has she seemed young enough to give birth to someone that's Rogue's age now. To make this work now, you;

    A: fundamentally change the way Mystique's powers work

    B: create a mother

    C: explain why it was necessary to hide this

    D: give a point in time for it happpen (remember Rogue and Kurt are similar in age. Mystique was in a relationship with whom was thought to be Kurt's father for years in Germany (so her going back and forth to Mississippi or anywhere in the US wouldn't make sense)

    When Claremont was writing the X-Men full-time in the 80s/90s, this might have worked. Maybe even with X-Treme, but wow, now? You're asking for retcons-upon-retcons.
    Last edited by donpricetag; 08-27-2018 at 06:45 AM.
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  7. #67
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    That'd be interesting, and disturbing. That'd change Mystique's powers altogether. She wouldn't be a shapeshifter, she'd be meta-morph, like Courier. He didn't just change the way he looked, he changed everything from the inside out. When he'd disguise himself as a woman [for one, it's much longer to do], he'd actually have female parts, not facsimiles like Mystique and any other shapshifter (they just move parts of their body mass around to suit specific purposes, which is why they shouldn't get physically stronger or weaker unless they modify their density). Which is how he got stuck as a woman once. Well he didn't get "stuck", he just lost his original "male" body. He could always transform back into his male form, but it wasn't permanent anymore. One of the funnier things Mr. Sinister has done. Theoretically, as a woman, Courier could get pregnant and as man, impregnate a woman.
    Theoretically, Mystique could impregnate herself if we're doing it this way.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
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  8. #68
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Assuming a meta-morph can hold both functioning male and female organs, that'd probably be a bad idea from a DNA standpoint. It'd be worse than having a child with a blood sibling. Too much repeating of DNA (homozygosity). Before anyone says it's like cloning, it's not... wait, is it? Nah... maybe? Still Rogue isnt a Mystique clone. Not that we know of. Maybe at some point, Mystique did actually look the way Rogue looks now?
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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Gambit, King of Thieves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donpricetag View Post
    Assuming a meta-morph can hold both functioning male and female organs, that'd probably be a bad idea from a DNA standpoint. It'd be worse than having a child with a blood sibling. Too much repeating of DNA (homozygosity). Before anyone says it's like cloning, it's not... wait, is it? Nah... maybe? Still Rogue isnt a Mystique clone. Not that we know of. Maybe at some point, Mystique did actually look the way Rogue looks now?
    Oh, I'm not endorsing it; there's a great piece by a guy called Randall Munroe in his book What If? that explains exactly why having a baby with yourself is a terrible, terrible idea.
    Cyclops was SO DAMN RIGHT, BABY
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  10. #70
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Yeeeaaaahhh, Mystique self-impregnating, while interesting, is probably too far off the deep end. I mean, genetically speaking it's a terrible idea and then I don't want to imagine the logistics or motivations involved.

    I get the appeal of making Mystique and/or Destiny biological parents and generally I like honoring the original intentions of character creators like Claremont, BUT as Don pointed out it just wouldn't make sense anymore given the continuity. Even lame stories we hate are still continuity. And Mystique already has enough abandoned bio kids as it is, she can't be everyone's mother. Lady needs to figure out birth control already.

    But it IS odd for Rogue to be SO detached from her bio family and remember them so poorly all this time. My 8 year old would not soon forget her parents, and a 13 year old would certainly would not. Those are hugely formative years in fact. I could maybe see that with a 2 or 3 year old. So I believe what Mike is getting at and I tend to agree with is that the separation from them must have been traumatic, must have involved a deep sense of betrayal and/or abandonment to where she never thinks of, references, or speaks of them.

    Now actually having a writer brave enough to address this and even possibly tie it to Rogue's power control issues would be awesome. I think writers are hesitant to answer big mysteries or change status quo, maybe for fear you take away something vital from a character by taking away the mystery? Or for fear of angering certain fans? Just look how PO'd some X-23 fans are about her recent reveal.

  11. #71
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yeeeaaaahhh, Mystique self-impregnating, while interesting, is probably too far off the deep end. I mean, genetically speaking it's a terrible idea and then I don't want to imagine the logistics or motivations involved.

    I get the appeal of making Mystique and/or Destiny biological parents and generally I like honoring the original intentions of character creators like Claremont, BUT as Don pointed out it just wouldn't make sense anymore given the continuity. Even lame stories we hate are still continuity. And Mystique already has enough abandoned bio kids as it is, she can't be everyone's mother. Lady needs to figure out birth control already.

    But it IS odd for Rogue to be SO detached from her bio family and remember them so poorly all this time. My 8 year old would not soon forget her parents, and a 13 year old would certainly would not. Those are hugely formative years in fact. I could maybe see that with a 2 or 3 year old. So I believe what Mike is getting at and I tend to agree with is that the separation from them must have been traumatic, must have involved a deep sense of betrayal and/or abandonment to where she never thinks of, references, or speaks of them.
    l.
    Except it happens every day in real life

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member mikeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Except it happens every day in real life
    If you are talking about kids ending up in foster care, I get your point. I know from personal experience. Between the ages of 12 and 18 I was what you would call "a temporary ward of the court" and in a foster home.
    Last edited by mikeb; 08-27-2018 at 11:48 AM.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member mikeb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AppleJ View Post
    Yeeeaaaahhh, Mystique self-impregnating, while interesting, is probably too far off the deep end. I mean, genetically speaking it's a terrible idea and then I don't want to imagine the logistics or motivations involved.

    I get the appeal of making Mystique and/or Destiny biological parents and generally I like honoring the original intentions of character creators like Claremont, BUT as Don pointed out it just wouldn't make sense anymore given the continuity. Even lame stories we hate are still continuity. And Mystique already has enough abandoned bio kids as it is, she can't be everyone's mother. Lady needs to figure out birth control already.

    But it IS odd for Rogue to be SO detached from her bio family and remember them so poorly all this time. My 8 year old would not soon forget her parents, and a 13 year old would certainly would not. Those are hugely formative years in fact. I could maybe see that with a 2 or 3 year old. So I believe what Mike is getting at and I tend to agree with is that the separation from them must have been traumatic, must have involved a deep sense of betrayal and/or abandonment to where she never thinks of, references, or speaks of them.

    Now actually having a writer brave enough to address this and even possibly tie it to Rogue's power control issues would be awesome. I think writers are hesitant to answer big mysteries or change status quo, maybe for fear you take away something vital from a character by taking away the mystery? Or for fear of angering certain fans? Just look how PO'd some X-23 fans are about her recent reveal.
    The traumatic experience I was thinking of took place when Rogue was 17 and had nothing to do with her natural family.

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member AppleJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Except it happens every day in real life
    Literally forgetting the place and people you lived with for the first 8 to 14 years under healthy and normal circumstances? I don't think that happens very often. Even very small children can have vivid memories of loved one from an early age. Now if trama and duress are involved I can buy it, such as amnesia from a head injury or subconsciencous dissociation due to traumatic memories. Choosing to actively ignore or pretend you forget that timeframe . . . Either again speaks of a very bad experience or a deep need to protect someone, maybe both?

  15. #75
    Twitter: @theprattlp donpricetag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Except it happens every day in real life
    kids 8 to 13 forgetting their parents happens every day ? No. Separated from their parents. Of course, but straight up forgetting who they are? Forever? That's 3rd grade man. I got a 7 year old and I think she's way too developed to just up forget like that. 3-5, more than likely. I think once kids start making friends with each other and become socially awakened, it's not that easy to just reset them.
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