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  1. #226
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    Justice League, Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy... Seems like superhero team films about the team coming together can only focus on five leads through most of the movie (even if other heroes come along later). If Warner ever takes another swing at Justice League, I think these five make the most sense to focus on at the outset:



    Don't see the point in including extraneous heroes who won't be spotlighted because you're just relegating them to the b-list from the get-go; and these are five of DC's most iconic properties. Would love to see these guys take on the Legion of Doom, Brainiac, Felix Faust, Ultra-Humanite, or Cadmus & Doomsday.

  2. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    This is nice. I wonder if this is testing for a solo series? Some of these new talent stuff seem to go no where but if this is good, I'm going to bother DC everyday to give this man a shot.
    Let's see if this guy is even a good writer first.

  3. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Justice League, Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy... Seems like superhero team films about the team coming together can only focus on five leads through most of the movie (even if other heroes come along later). If Warner ever takes another swing at Justice League, I think these five make the most sense to focus on at the outset:



    Don't see the point in including extraneous heroes who won't be spotlighted because you're just relegating them to the b-list from the get-go; and these are five of DC's most iconic properties. Would love to see these guys take on the Legion of Doom, Brainiac, Felix Faust, Ultra-Humanite, or Cadmus & Doomsday.
    EXACTLY. I would include Aquaman in there but yeah, it's just that simple. Idk why they try to push Cyborg when they know he's not an A-lister (for various reasons) like the others and when they know they won't ever truly treat him like one. In the current situation the DCEU is in now, they can't afford to take risks. Play it safe and get the remaining characters in that lineup taken care of to prove they have a respectable level of competency showing that they can handle their most marketable characters, and then they can branch off with lesser known characters. They've got a long way to go to build up trust with the audience, so just throwing out a Deadman, or Mr. Miracle, or any other movie like that will not bring the people to the theater. They can try those movies alongside the more popular characters' movies (ex: 2020 GLC and later that year Booster Gold), but they're not at that point yet.

    If set up properly so we get to see the deep connection between the heroes and villains, a JLA v Legion movie would be the stuff dreams are made of.
    Last edited by Cosmic Emerald 23; 09-22-2018 at 08:12 PM.

  4. #229
    Astonishing Member Sodam Yat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandofPrometheus View Post
    This is nice. I wonder if this is testing for a solo series? Some of these new talent stuff seem to go no where but if this is good, I'm going to bother DC everyday to give this man a shot.
    This was what I was thinking when I read the tweet on whether this is a test for a potential solo series. John definitely deserves a solo.

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Let's see if this guy is even a good writer first.
    I don't see DC graduating mediocre writers. I think his writing has been reviewed thoroughly before being published. We'll see.

  5. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Emerald 23 View Post
    EXACTLY. I would include Aquaman in there but yeah, it's just that simple. Idk why they try to push Cyborg when they know he's not an A-lister (for various reasons) like the others and when they know they won't ever truly treat him like one. In the current situation the DCEU is in now, they can't afford to take risks. Play it safe and get the remaining characters in that lineup taken care of to prove they have a respectable level of competency showing that they can handle their most marketable characters, and then they can branch off with lesser known characters. They've got a long way to go to build up trust with the audience, so just throwing out a Deadman, or Mr. Miracle, or any other movie like that will not bring the people to the theater. They can try those movies alongside the more popular characters' movies (ex: 2020 GLC and later that year Booster Gold), but they're not at that point yet.

    If set up properly so we get to see the deep connection between the heroes and villains, a JLA v Legion movie would be the stuff dreams are made of.
    Honestly I think Cyborg can work, but only with the right creative mindset and Flashpoint- DC Rebirth, not to mention various adaptions (Smallville, Justice League movie, Various cartoons, etc) brought a lot of good ideas but not the consistency and execution that he needs especially as he is a Justice League member (Same with John Stewart when the JL Cartoon, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, etc)

  6. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by ironman2978 View Post
    Honestly I think Cyborg can work, but only with the right creative mindset and Flashpoint- DC Rebirth, not to mention various adaptions (Smallville, Justice League movie, Various cartoons, etc) brought a lot of good ideas but not the consistency and execution that he needs especially as he is a Justice League member (Same with John Stewart when the JL Cartoon, Martian Manhunter, Hawkman and Hawkgirl, etc)
    Not trying to derail this, but as long as Batman is DC's premier, heroic mind, Cyborg can't be treated as a-list. From a story-mechanic standpoint, he'll be regulated to doing Batman's search engine queries because Batman is the more profitable character and can only justify being on the team by having the "a-ha" moments. Cyborg will also be punked continuously because you can show his limbs being torn-up with little consequence; so while other heroes are taking hits, Cyborg will be torn to pieces like a paper tiger. We're not even getting to how DC is trying to make their most prominent character of color a disfigured, neutered figure who doesn't like himself or his situation, and who doesn't act as much of a wish-fulfillment vessel on any level. For DC to fix the character, they'd have to deviate too far from how the public at large recognizes him.

    The only way a minority character can ever be a-list is if writers and editors treat them like the other premier heroes/properties--Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern. That includes: a consistent push to publish a solo title; a MEANINGFUL spot on the premier superteam to advertise and normalize the character (as in not there to just do google searches and bus the team around or get torn to pieces at every turn); prominent roles in crossovers; and wish fulfillment, escapist fantasy for readers. DC isn't currently doing that with any minority character, so they don't currently have a viable minority a-lister. John is the closest they have, and they seem to be making some effort in recent months with the character due to Snyder. I'd like to see that progress continue. When I was growing up and watching the cartoon, John WAS a-list to most people because the creators of the animated series made an effort to have people see him that way. They developed him, spotlighted him, and made him respectable. If you were to make him a white character but keep all of the other elements about him, a white viewer or reader would still want to be like him--and that's the test all minority characters should pass if they're going to be more than b-list. Successful movie stars, musicians, athletes, personalities, etc. are popular because all kinds of people want to be like them. Why would it be different for comic book characters?
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 09-23-2018 at 08:20 AM.

  7. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    John is the closest they have, and they seem to be making some effort in recent months with the character due to Snyder. I'd like to see that progress continue. When I was growing up and watching the cartoon, John WAS a-list to most people because the creators of the animated series made an effort to have people see him that way. They developed him, spotlighted him, and made him respectable. If you were to make him a white character but keep all of the other elements about him, a white viewer or reader would still want to be like him--and that's the test all minority characters should pass if they're going to be more than b-list. Successful movie stars, musicians, athletes, personalities, etc. are popular because all kinds of people want to be like them. Why would it be different for comic book characters?
    When I first seen the Justice League cartoon, I always thought that John Stewart was a-list and had his own solo comics. I even thought that was the reason he was on JL/JLU. Not trying to sound controversial, but if John Stewart was actually a white character, I don't think his treatment wouldn't have been as bad in the past.

    I'm glad to see DC finally putting some effort with John Stewart. I applaud Scott Snyder for this.

  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    When I first seen the Justice League cartoon, I always thought that John Stewart was a-list and had his own solo comics. I even thought that was the reason he was on JL/JLU. Not trying to sound controversial, but if John Stewart was actually a white character, I don't think his treatment wouldn't have been as bad in the past.

    I'm glad to see DC finally putting some effort with John Stewart. I applaud Scott Snyder for this.
    Are you saying he would have been treated the same or he'd be treated better? Your wording's a little off.



    Can anyone tell me what story this is referencing? I don't remember this wheelchair incident.
    THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki

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  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Are you saying he would have been treated the same or he'd be treated better? Your wording's a little off.
    He would've been treated better.

  10. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Not trying to derail this, but as long as Batman is DC's premier, heroic mind, Cyborg can't be treated as a-list. From a story-mechanic standpoint, he'll be regulated to doing Batman's search engine queries because Batman is the more profitable character and can only justify being on the team by having the "a-ha" moments. Cyborg will also be punked continuously because you can show his limbs being torn-up with little consequence; so while other heroes are taking hits, Cyborg will be torn to pieces like a paper tiger. We're not even getting to how DC is trying to make their most prominent character of color a disfigured, neutered figure who doesn't like himself or his situation, and who doesn't act as much of a wish-fulfillment vessel on any level. For DC to fix the character, they'd have to deviate too far from how the public at large recognizes him.

    The only way a minority character can ever be a-list is if writers and editors treat them like the other premier heroes/properties--Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Green Lantern. That includes: a consistent push to publish a solo title; a MEANINGFUL spot on the premier superteam to advertise and normalize the character (as in not there to just do google searches and bus the team around or get torn to pieces at every turn); prominent roles in crossovers; and wish fulfillment, escapist fantasy for readers. DC isn't currently doing that with any minority character, so they don't currently have a viable minority a-lister. John is the closest they have, and they seem to be making some effort in recent months with the character due to Snyder. I'd like to see that progress continue. When I was growing up and watching the cartoon, John WAS a-list to most people because the creators of the animated series made an effort to have people see him that way. They developed him, spotlighted him, and made him respectable. If you were to make him a white character but keep all of the other elements about him, a white viewer or reader would still want to be like him--and that's the test all minority characters should pass if they're going to be more than b-list. Successful movie stars, musicians, athletes, personalities, etc. are popular because all kinds of people want to be like them. Why would it be different for comic book characters?
    Again, you hit the nail on the head. Batman already occupies the primary strategy and tech expert slot on the team, mix that in with the fact that Cyborg is the youngest on the team, and you get him being Bruce's personal laptop that constantly gets ripped apart/shat on/bossed around/etc. When DC launched the New 52 they wanted to add a minority character to make it look like they're "with the times" but they picked the worst one to put on the team. They knew (and still know) Cyborg is NOT a wish fulfillment character by any means, and that's the whole root of the problem. You can't have a character like that on the JLA and expect him to succeed, especially when you put little to no effort into him and treat him like a b-lister when you try to convince people that he's an a-lister on the surface. Really, John is the only black DC hero who is a real deal a-lister because he's a compelling wish fulfillment character who occupies a top mainstay slot on the team: Green Lantern. No he's not as popular as the trinity (but hey, who is? lol), but GL is still in the starting 5 of the DC all-star team, especially John who is one of the most popular/well known lanterns of all factoring in comic readers and general audience.

  11. #236
    duke's casettetape lemonpeace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sodam Yat View Post
    He would've been treated better.
    Ok, then i definitely agree. I don't think it's controversial to say that, especially if you compare John's treatment to the other Lanterns. That's not to say DC consciously mistreats John because he's black but he does tend to get the short end of the stick because non-black writers tend to have a problem approaching black character. It's especially a problem at DC because they don't have many black characters that are prominent enough that they HAVE to write for them, so alot of times they can push characters like John to the back and focus on their main/favorite heroes who tend to happen to be white and therefore less problematic for them to write.
    THE SIGNAL (Duke Thomas) is DC's secret shonen protagonist so I made him a fandom wiki

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    "power does not corrupt, power always reveals."

  12. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Are you saying he would have been treated the same or he'd be treated better? Your wording's a little off.



    Can anyone tell me what story this is referencing? I don't remember this wheelchair incident.
    It was in Green Lantern but I don't think it is in any of Kyle's trades.

    I want to say between issues 160-170. Maybe after Fatality was introduced.

  13. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmic Emerald 23 View Post
    EXACTLY. I would include Aquaman in there but yeah, it's just that simple. Idk why they try to push Cyborg when they know he's not an A-lister (for various reasons) like the others and when they know they won't ever truly treat him like one. In the current situation the DCEU is in now, they can't afford to take risks. Play it safe and get the remaining characters in that lineup taken care of to prove they have a respectable level of competency showing that they can handle their most marketable characters, and then they can branch off with lesser known characters.

    If set up properly so we get to see the deep connection between the heroes and villains, a JLA v Legion movie would be the stuff dreams are made of.
    Actually they can.

    No one would OPENLY hope for failure of a DC movie due to hatred of the lead like they did with Black Panther and now Carol Danvers. Where folks OPENLY hoped they would bomb and Marvel would go out of business.

    Dc needs to let Batman and select friends go have a Kiki somewhere and act like they don't have the rights to them. Marvel didn't have everyone and that FORCED them to raise the bar and take risks.

    Risks that eventually hit the comic side and FORCED them to build up guys like Panther & Carol. That needs to happen HERE.

    Nothing is wrong with a John Stewart Mosaic movie. Put him on a planet and PLANT seeds of other cultures like Hawkman, Warlord, Wildstorm and so on. And you can toss in Hal and the others in sequels that could lead up to Sinestro Wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    Actually they can.

    No one would OPENLY hope for failure of a DC movie due to hatred of the lead like they did with Black Panther and now Carol Danvers. Where folks OPENLY hoped they would bomb and Marvel would go out of business.

    Dc needs to let Batman and select friends go have a Kiki somewhere and act like they don't have the rights to them. Marvel didn't have everyone and that FORCED them to raise the bar and take risks.

    Risks that eventually hit the comic side and FORCED them to build up guys like Panther & Carol. That needs to happen HERE.

    Nothing is wrong with a John Stewart Mosaic movie. Put him on a planet and PLANT seeds of other cultures like Hawkman, Warlord, Wildstorm and so on. And you can toss in Hal and the others in sequels that could lead up to Sinestro Wars.
    Nah they really can't. They've proven they can't handle their big characters (JL) OR their lesser known characters (Suicide Squad). My opinion on this can and will change if they turn it around with Aquaman and Shazam, but as of now, the answer is no. Like I said before, Marvel didn't come out the gate with Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Guardians of the Galaxy, etc, they started with the most popular characters they had access to at the time (Iron Man/Cap/Thor/Hulk), and because they built up a good reputation with those characters, the audience was more open to seeing the aforementioned lesser known characters. I'm aware Blade was a risk that paid off, but it was not part of a cinematic universe, so that independent movie failing would not cause everything to come crashing down like the first 3-4 out of 5 movies failing would mess up a cinematic universe. I do agree though, the lack of their other popular characters (X-Men/FF) forced them to build up other characters and it's paid off so far, but the thing is, WB/DC is not in the same situation as Marvel. DC has to earn the goodwill of the audience, which they don't have right now.

    You're right, nothing's wrong with a John Stewart movie. He's one of the A-listers I mentioned in another post. They can lay the foundation for the other characters (Blue Beetle, Firestorm, The Forever People, etc.) in the A-list movies and expand upon them in the future. Or like I also said, they can run those characters' movies alongside the A-list movies (ex: 2021 GLC, later that year Firestorm).

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemonpeace View Post
    Ok, then i definitely agree. I don't think it's controversial to say that, especially if you compare John's treatment to the other Lanterns. That's not to say DC consciously mistreats John because he's black but he does tend to get the short end of the stick because non-black writers tend to have a problem approaching black character. It's especially a problem at DC because they don't have many black characters that are prominent enough that they HAVE to write for them, so alot of times they can push characters like John to the back and focus on their main/favorite heroes who tend to happen to be white and therefore less problematic for them to write.
    Exactly!!! John always had to get the short end of the stick, because writers prefer other lanterns over John. I just think that many writers (not all) just can't identify themselves with John Stewart, because he's an African American. That's not to say that's a form of racism or anything close to that. Writers didn't really seem that diverse in the industry, which hurt John Stewart's chances to shine, despite him being treated as an A-list superhero from the Justice League cartoons. They're fans just like we are. What Ethan Van Sciver said in the John Stewart appreciation thread pretty much confirms their bias. The good thing is that there are some writers who does prefer John Stewart to other Green Lanterns such as Gail Simone, Justin Jordan, Van Jensen etc.

    Unfortunately TPTB at DC aren't soliciting pitches specifically for John Stewart, unlike other characters. We're in a position that It just takes for a writer who's very fond of John Stewart to decide to write him.

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