John Stewart Appreciation Thread

[Vampire Savior]

Eh, look at what happened to Harley Quinn. She was a supporting character to a villain. If she can make it as big as she did, a character like John Stewart can do well for himself.

It's interesting you bring Harley Quinn up. There is a big difference between her and John Stewart, though. Harley Quinn isn't Batman. Harley Quinn isn't trying to be Batman. Harley Quinn isn't trying to fill Batman's spot in Batman's world, and no one expects her to be Batman. She is entirely her own character, so it's not quite the same situation.

[Vampire Savior]

Too bad they're not. Look how long it's been and we still haven't gotten any new main black heroes either created or seriously pushed. If it was really important to DC, then they would have given us that main character instead of forcing us to accept scraps and crumbs. And I'm not buying the whole "just a supporting character" argument. Wally West flies (or should I say runs) directly in the face of that. Wally was initially created as a SIDEKICK, then guess what? He took over as THE Flash for about 20 years before Geoff Johns and the silver age nostalgia crew came in and screwed him over by bringing Barry back and hugging all over his nuts. Nobody was trying so hard to hold onto tradition in that situation back in the 80s because it was a compelling story of Wally developing and growing into a man in this new role. He even became a BETTER Flash than Barry, and A LOT of fans bought into him being the new status quo Flash. Just like I grew up with John as GL, I grew up with Wally as Flash in the DCAU, and now guess what? DC has been writing Barry to be like Wally from the DCAU, because Wally is the best and most memorable version of the Flash.

You bring up Wally West and all you have to do is look over at the giant mess he is in. If The Flash comics wanted to work like the story was always moving forward (no pun intended), like how manga tends to work, or many other types of stories, then a character like Wally West as Flash would be fine. However, DC Comics don't always work that way. They exist in a shared universe and they reboot and reset things. That's when a character like Wally as Flash becomes more difficult. Essentially, you wind up with two guys trying to fill the same role, and that can cause a huge mess.

Tell me, what does Hal have that John doesn't that makes him a superior character that can never be replaced? Besides writer bias, nothing. They both have the same exact powers, name, and function. And don't give me "Hal has his own mythos and more history of being the #1 guy", because so did Barry, and that didn't stop DC from replacing him with Wally and building a revamped mythos for him.

An occupation that actually matters in his stories.
A consistent family and notable supporting cast (Tom, Kilowog, Guardians... John Stewart , etcetera )
An iconic love interest.
Strong relations with other characters in the wider DC Universe like Oliver Queen and Barry Allen.
An iconic villain.
A rogues gallery.
He actually matters in the DC Universe. You could take John Stewart right out of it and it wouldn't make any difference.
This is all just off the top of my head without even trying. I could probably think of a considerably longer list if I tried, but I think the point gets across as is.

A better question would be, "What does John Stewart have?" He doesn't have much because he wasn't designed to. And yet some of you want this character as your number 1 black hero : /
Whatever John has, Hal Jordan has, had first, and has much more on top of that. So, I don't know if that means Hal Jordan can never be replaced (I never said that), but Hal Jordan was designed to be a main character. In essence, the world was primarily designed to revolve around him. John Stewart exists within that world.

[Sodam Yat]

It's interesting you bring Harley Quinn up. There is a big difference between her and John Stewart, though. Harley Quinn isn't Batman. Harley Quinn isn't trying to be Batman. Harley Quinn isn't trying to fill Batman's spot in Batman's world, and no one expects her to be Batman. She is entirely her own character, so it's not quite the same situation.

She was still created from the Batman mythos, where she grew and became more of an independent character, thanks to the success of the Batman animated series. You don't necessarily need to be a complete different character to get pushed.

[Vampire Savior]

On the subject of Miles Morales, Miles was designed to be a main character from the start. That said, he will likely always be a supplementary Spider-Man. He was meant to fill the spot of Spider-Man when Spider-Man died and wasn't there to be Spider-Man. And this all happened in some alternate universe. Likewise, Kyle Rayner was designed to be a main character, too.

[Sodam Yat]

On the subject of Miles Morales, Miles was designed to be a main character from the start. That said, he will likely always be a supplementary Spider-Man. He was meant to fill the spot of Spider-Man when Spider-Man died and wasn't there to be Spider-Man. And this all happened in some alternate universe. Likewise, Kyle Rayner was designed to be a main character, too.

Yea, Kyle was designed to be a main character, too and look where he's at now. So being a supporting character or a main character doesn't really matter here.

[Vampire Savior]

She was still created from the Batman mythos, where she grew and became more of an independent character, thanks to the success of the Batman animated series. You don't necessarily need to be a complete different character to get pushed.

No, see... the point is, Bruce Wayne's got that Batman sh*t covered. NO ONE is going to be able to compete with him on that, and there is no need for any other character to be Batman. Every other Batman that has come along has been supplemental. Everyone understands they aren't the "main," "prime" Batman. Harley Quinn would never be able to pull that off. Harley Quinn doesn't try. She has her own character.

You guys want John Stewart to take that Hal Jordan spot. Harley's not trying to take Batman's spot.

[Vampire Savior]

Yea, Kyle was designed to be a main character, too and look where he's at now. So being a supporting character or a main character doesn't really matter here.

Well, let me bring in my big point, because Kyle doesn't have much to do with it, and I don't want to stray too far. I'm going to be frank.

I think that many of you want supporting character John Stewart to be DC's main black hero... is your opinion, and that's fine, but to me, it's misguided and problematic. That said, I do really like John Stewart, and I like reading comics with him in prominent roles. But, First of all, you want him to have the white man's spot instead of a black hero having his own. Also, someone made a post, I think it was the user named Lemonpeace, that made it sound like they would reject, or at least not be very open, to anything new DC might try to actually be better than a supporting character that has to fight with 7 other characters for spotlight in a mythos designed around a white man. With all due respect, it's kind of an embarrassing scenario to me, actually.

If I were to complain about anything, it would be why DC doesn't push a black character and work on building a mythos around them the way they built one around Superman. That, I think, is the real problem, not that they aren't giving John Stewart the shoes that have been and already are filled by a white man.

I don't expect DC to do that, and I think that's unfortunate, but that, essentially to me, is the problem. Like someone else mentioned, you'd likely have to look elsewhere for something like that.

[Sodam Yat]

No, see... the point is, Bruce Wayne's got that Batman sh*t covered. NO ONE is going to be able to compete with him on that, and there is no need for any other character to be Batman. Every other Batman that has come along has been supplemental. Everyone understands they aren't the "main," "prime" Batman. Harley Quinn would never be able to pull that off. Harley Quinn doesn't try. She has her own character.

You guys want John Stewart to take that Hal Jordan spot. Harley's not trying to take Batman's spot.

Green Lantern and The Flash proven to be interchangeable characters. Same with characters like Robin and Blue Beetle. Of course they're not as iconic as Batman or Superman. Surely, Geoff Johns wouldn't write a GLC script, where it stars two GL's as co-leads (Of course I believe John Stewart was planned, due to necessity). So the same similarity can happen in DC Comics.

I just want John Stewart to have his own book. Is that too much to ask? It has nothing to do with replacing another GL.

[Cosmic Emerald 23]

You bring up Wally West and all you have to do is look over at the giant mess he is in. If The Flash comics wanted to work like the story was always moving forward (no pun intended), like how manga tends to work, or many other types of stories, then a character like Wally West as Flash would be fine. However, DC Comics don't always work that way. They exist in a shared universe and they reboot and reset things. That's when a character like Wally as Flash becomes more difficult. Essentially, you wind up with two guys trying to fill the same role, and that can cause a huge mess.



An occupation that actually matters in his stories.
A consistent family and notable supporting cast (Tom, Kilowog, Guardians... John Stewart , etcetera )
An iconic love interest.
Strong relations with other characters in the wider DC Universe like Oliver Queen and Barry Allen.
An iconic villain.
A rogues gallery.
He actually matters in the DC Universe. You could take John Stewart right out of it and it wouldn't make any difference.
This is all just off the top of my head without even trying. I could probably think of a considerably longer list if I tried, but I think the point gets across as is.

A better question would be, "What does John Stewart have?" He doesn't have much because he wasn't designed to. And yet some of you want this character as your number 1 black hero : /
Whatever John has, Hal Jordan has, had first, and has much more on top of that. So, I don't know if that means Hal Jordan can never be replaced (I never said that), but Hal Jordan was designed to be a main character. In essence, the world was primarily designed to revolve around him. John Stewart exists within that world.

Comic book characters are immortal and don't age or change unless the writers want them to. It's DC's own fault for having to reboot so many times for not having their shit together, and even then, you could just start off the new universe with the new lead already established after (insert occurrence here) already happened to the predecessor. Easy fix.

You obviously ignored/just entirely missed/didn't understand the last statement of my post. How do you think Hal got all of those things? They built it up from the ground up. As you do with ANY leading character.

Did Kyle just immediately have a mythos upon taking over? No, they actually gave him a chance and built one up for him, just like with Wally. And if you want to talk about how he was originally designed, let's talk about it. John was originally designed to be Hal's replacement, should he ever be unable to be GL. What happened with Emerald Twilight? Why didn't the writers hold true to that and have John be the last GL? This was around the time that John proved worthy of being the first mortal Guardian in Mosaic. It's bad enough he got his very first series cancelled (and not because of slumping sales), but on top of that, he gets passed up for a new guy with no GL experience whatsoever to carry the torch all by himself. Doesn't make sense, does it? If they wanted to bring in Kyle to get some new blood in the franchise then they could've brought him in as John's protegee and let John take the lead of the franchise due to him having more experience and more of a connection to the predecessor. That could've been the development and growth of the character I talked about with Wally. John came in as a rookie and was mentored by Hal and then later Katma Tui. After Hal becomes Parallax, John is the new #1 guy, and now he is the one who has taken a rookie lantern under his wing. I just thought of that in like a few minutes, it's honestly not that hard.

That's the root of the problem, it's that they haven't ever given John a chance to fully take over, so of course he's not gonna have all that stuff. I'm saying do the same for John, like what was done for Wally or Kyle or ANY new leading character (no I'm not saying kill Barry and Hal again). If we went to war and I roll up in a suit of armor with all the strongest weapons and I deprive you of said gear, only giving you a twig to fight with, of course I'd win every single time, no contest.

I think you should go back to the earlier pages of this forum to see what we've been talking about all this time, then it won't seem like we want John to "automatically be treated like Batman" without the proper tools (that he has been deprived of).

[DragonsChi]

As you said, it's the marketing and quality that holds those books back. Now am I saying put ALL the top tier writers/artists into black led books exclusively? No. But A LOT more effort should be put forward. When they write those books (aside from GLC), they don't make the reader care about the character, it's usually something stupid or some generic cookie cutter plot. The heroes' characterization is usually dull and unremarkable, the presentation of their powersets aren't the greatest, and there's just not enough world building involved (for the most part). Their biggest mistake was trying to make Cyborg their lead minority character, cuz let's be honest, he's the least appealing character they've got. Yeah he can be a loveable character due to his personality from the '03 Titans, but at the end of the day, nobody wants to lose half their body (including genitalia) in a horrible, painful explosion, only to be trapped in a metal body that doesn't allow you to operate like a normal person anymore (in a bad way). They'd rather be the idealized heroes like Superman, and I would too. Add on the fact that he was made strictly to be a team player from the start and now he's thrust into this "major" position without any effort being put into fixing him up so that he would fit the bill.

There's merit to what you said about them simply not selling enough, but at the same time they're not doing us or themselves any favors by not giving any cool/important stuff to the minority characters to make them more appealing.

This. No one wants to be Cyborg.

The fact that Johns picked him when there was at least six other "tokens" at the time who would make better candidates for the Justice League is also telling. My post is not coming from no where. If you look at G. Johns previous work and his treatment of characters of a certain background you can see that he has never really been mostly favorable for those characters. They are usually shuffled in the background or do something that makes you wince. Is he intentionally doing it? No, I do not believe so. I just believe he may have social biases that he has yet to overcome that leans him towards treating those characters in a certain way. And I have formed that opinion from years of experience
with seeing and being done to myself and those in my community.

DC needs to stop being afraid to push minority characters. Sometimes they have to tell these fans to either get with us or get out of the way. They should go out of their way to be more progressive. Realistically characters like Jessica, Duke, Vic, John, BL, Terrific, Vixen and countless others should be stars. But DC needs to get out of that 1930/40/50'60's mentality. It's 2018 about to be 2019. There's no excuse anymore.

I do not believe the bold is the proper solution at all. As harsh as it sounds Money is what keeps a business a float and makes the world go round. What DC should do is the basic principle of sales and what they do with every other character they actually care about. Thats Create Value, Build Organic Interest, and then Capitalize on that interest. They had that with John during the JL/JLU era and to add it was thrown in their lap. They barely had to do anything else but place him in a book and use him in away that would continue to draw interest and they passed on it.

People can say whatever they heck they want but that is SUSPECT . It doesn't make sense on any practical level at all.

I don't think it's a dismissive attitude, but it cuts to the real heart of the matter. For what you are looking for, there is something fundamentally wrong with John Stewart.

He was created as a supporting character for the Hal Jordan story, and he has Hal Jordan's identity (Green Lantern), which Hal Jordan has held for 50 or 60 years, depending on how you look at it. John Stewart, in all his years of existing, has never been able to get around that, and I don't know if he ever fully will. Even at the height of his popularity, he could not surmount that obstacle.

Wally West -Solo almost 25 years
Nightwing- Solo almost 30 years
Harely Quin- Recent Solo 5-8 years( Not sure here)
Catwoman- Recent Solo's 6 years off and on (Not sure here either)

And that list can go on. DC doesn't seem to have a problem pushing characters in "supportive roles" they just seem to have a problem when it comes to certain characters.

You've been doing that from the start and you still try to turn it around on me. lol The business aspect isn't the argument, it's the prior allegation that Stewart was mistreated because of the way he looks. The writing is all over the wall so much that you can't prove that claim if your life depended on it. "Butt hurt"? What is this, 2010?



So your proof that John Stewart was a victim of prejudice by the people in charge of DC is because people get away with doing this type of thing everyday. Your generalizing and continuous failure to back up your claim is downright pathetic.




I would actually agree with you, this has been going around in circles since all you do is keep telling those who ask you to offer a single shred of evidence for your claim is that they don't have a business sense or they're willfully ignorant, when you've had no leg to stand on to support any type of racial bias assertion that you've been accusing this company of doing to a fictional character. Would've been funny if it wasn't so sad.



You can keep trying to deflect, makes little difference to me. It was established long ago that you're a bad comedian. Here's a tip though, if you're going to accuse creators of directly sabotaging fictional characters due to social biases, you better make sure you're prepared to bring facts to the table. If not, just don't bother with it.

I thought you said you where leaving? LOL

This post is just rambling. You don't have a counter to the actual business or sales points I brought up. You have already said, in your own short sighted way, that it didn't make sense for a business not to capitalize on their own marketing. So we are pretty much done here and I'm officially done. Have much better things to waste my time on. Thanks for the laughs though.

[Sodam Yat]

Well, let me bring in my big point, because Kyle doesn't have much to do with it, and I don't want to stray too far. I'm going to be frank.

I think that many of you want supporting character John Stewart to be DC's main black hero... is your opinion, and that's fine, but to me, it's misguided and problematic. That said, I do really like John Stewart, and I like reading comics with him in prominent roles. But, First of all, you want him to have the white man's spot instead of a black hero having his own. Also, someone made a post, I think it was the user named Lemonpeace, that made it sound like they would reject, or at least not be very open, to anything new DC might try to actually be better than a supporting character that has to fight with 7 other characters for spotlight in a mythos designed around a white man. With all due respect, it's kind of an embarrassing scenario to me, actually.

If I were to complain about anything, it would be why DC doesn't push a black character and work on building a mythos around them the way they built one around Superman. That, I think, is the real problem, not that they aren't giving John Stewart the shoes that have been and already are filled by a white man.

I don't expect DC to do that, and I think that's unfortunate, but that, essentially to me, is the problem. Like someone else mentioned, you'd likely have to look elsewhere for something like that.

I actually agree with what you're saying. I know you don't care much for John's appearance in Scott Snyder's Justice League run, but it kinda does seem like that's what they're sort of doing. Earlier in this thread there was speculations about John's ring being a part of him and how his heart is being the battery itself. This could take a different direction that gives John his own mythos.

[DragonsChi]

Well, let me bring in my big point, because Kyle doesn't have much to do with it, and I don't want to stray too far. I'm going to be frank.

I think that many of you want supporting character John Stewart to be DC's main black hero... is your opinion, and that's fine, but to me, it's misguided and problematic. That said, I do really like John Stewart, and I like reading comics with him in prominent roles. But, First of all, you want him to have the white man's spot instead of a black hero having his own. Also, someone made a post, I think it was the user named Lemonpeace, that made it sound like they would reject, or at least not be very open, to anything new DC might try to actually be better than a supporting character that has to fight with 7 other characters for spotlight in a mythos designed around a white man. With all due respect, it's kind of an embarrassing scenario to me, actually.

If I were to complain about anything, it would be why DC doesn't push a black character and work on building a mythos around them the way they built one around Superman. That, I think, is the real problem, not that they aren't giving John Stewart the shoes that have been and already are filled by a white man.

I don't expect DC to do that, and I think that's unfortunate, but that, essentially to me, is the problem. Like someone else mentioned, you'd likely have to look elsewhere for something like that.

Your whole premise is off. If any franchise could have multiple derivative books with staring character it is the Green Lantern mythos. The whole concept is SPACE COPS with fancy light producing rings. Look how many Cop Shows there are and you are trying to say that the whole lore has to be around Hal? Really?

Personally, I am not trying to say that John should be the main GL. I personally, do not care. I do feel that DC fumbled the ball on a business standpoint with him and I do feel that he should be more of a major player in the DC Universe as a whole. I also feel that if DC or anyone else toots out that "Well Hal is the main cop so we can't have others" is either short sighted creatively or doesn't not have what it takes build on what is given to them. That being the case those people should either be sat down so they can figure out how to do better or be fired so someone else who can do the job, gets the chance to.

[Johnny]

I thought you said you where leaving? LOL

This post is just rambling. You don't have a counter to the actual business or sales points I brought up. You have already said, in your own short sighted way, that it didn't make sense for a business not to capitalize on their own marketing. So we are pretty much done here and I'm officially done. Have much better things to waste my time on. Thanks for the laughs though.

Dragon, you're a good example of how toxic some members of our niche community can be. All I did was ask you to provide some validity for your claims about any type of alleged hateful or racial bias towards John Stewart on DC's part and you never did. Thank you for proving that your blanket statements were nothing more than that.

[Johnny]

I saw Bird Box and if WB doesn't cast Trevante as John, they're fools. Obviously he's been a long-time fan favorite, but unlike some of the other fan favorites, he's an actual realistic choice for the character. He's young, talented, good looking and has good resume. I would be utterly disappointed if they don't cast him, he's just such an obvious choice.

[lemonpeace]

I saw Bird Box and if WB doesn't cast Trevante as John, they're fools. Obviously he's been a long-time fan favorite, but unlike some of the other fan favorites, he's an actual realistic choice for the character. He's young, talented, good looking and has good resume. I would be utterly disappointed if they don't cast him, he's just such an obvious choice.

100% and considering the impressive performances he's given, and with the trajectory he's on, I can see him being as well received if not more than Aquabro Momoa. Could easily be a star-turn if DC plays their cards right.