Hal Jordan Appreciation 2018

[HAN9000]

It will be a little expensive to buy them both...

[Anthony Shaw]

Ugh. Comments like this about Hal's character kind of irk me a little. Especially when people compare him to Kyle and Guy (who were both given a lot of Hal's characteristics)

A lot of people seem to forget that before Kyle came along Hal was the calm, cool, laid back, level-headed, altruistic one with a sense of humour out of him, Guy and John (John was young, smart and somewhat brash while Guy, well... I'll get to him lower down)



When Guy was brought back during CoIE and was brought out of his coma before his brain fully healed (for the second time as Sinestro also brought Guy out of his coma before his brain fully healed contributing to his brain damage even more before that) by a rogue faction of the Guardians, he was literally brought back to be "Hal without the restraint and tactfulness" as Wolfman, Wein, Moore, Englehart, Giffen, DeMatteis, Jones and others who were integral to bringing Guy back from the coma O'Neil put him in so John could be Hal's backup at the beginning of the Bronze Age during HTH have all said in various interviews over the years.

This is why I don't think Hal has ever really been judged fairly by a lot of the comic book fans that make up the current fanbase since they brought him back. If he acts humorously or sometimes stubborn other people instantly start comparing him to Kyle and Guy without even realizing that for a while there Kyle took over Hal's place as the calm, cool, laid back, level-headed, altruistic one with a sense of humour and that post-CoIE Guy literally is Hal in a lot of ways, just ramped up times 1000.

It's almost like the character has to constantly justify its own existence among fans.

I'm...not sure why you chose my post to respond to. I might be missing something here. Everything you said (which I agree with) has nothing to do with what I posted. You are talking about the comics while I'm talking about the CW TV network.

I can easily see CW making Kyle the hearthrob snowflake while Guy would be the over the top jerk with a heart of gold. It is easy (and lazy) to go barebones with them.

Like I said, Hal is a character full of nuance (I think you would agree with that), and I doubt CW would even attempt to exploit that.

I like to think that most folks familiar with the Bronze Age know that Guy was re-imagined as a foil for Hal.

If Hal was Ravishing Rick Rude (RIP), then Guy was Gigolo Jimmy Del Rey (RIP). Look up their pictures, and you will know what I mean.

IMO, it was Geoff Johns that whittled Hal's character in favor of putting him in one big event after another during his run.

[Johnny]

Geoff probably wanted to make Hal more "main stream" so to speak, so he decided that the "funny guy" was more accessible to new fans and the masses than a character that's full of nuance. Still, he did write Hal in an excellent fashion in Rebirth 2004.

[Anthony Shaw]

Geoff probably wanted to make Hal more "main stream" so to speak, so he decided that the "funny guy" was more accessible to new fans and the masses than a character that's full of nuance. Still, he did write Hal in an excellent fashion in Rebirth 2004.

Hal was just great in Rebirth. All the fab five GLs were in top form during Rebirth (I hated that Kilowog was separated from the group afterwards). That is still my favorite GL story from Geoff.

[Johnny]

[Anthony Shaw]

I loved that scene. The crazy part of that stand-off is that if both sides came to blows, it would be tough to take down the GLC.

Too bad Alan & Jade were on the wrong side.

[docmidnite]

I'm...not sure why you chose my post to respond to. I might be missing something here. Everything you said (which I agree with) has nothing to do with what I posted. You are talking about the comics while I'm talking about the CW TV network.

I can easily see CW making Kyle the hearthrob snowflake while Guy would be the over the top jerk with a heart of gold. It is easy (and lazy) to go barebones with them.

Like I said, Hal is a character full of nuance (I think you would agree with that), and I doubt CW would even attempt to exploit that.

I like to think that most folks familiar with the Bronze Age know that Guy was re-imagined as a foil for Hal.

If Hal was Ravishing Rick Rude (RIP), then Guy was Gigolo Jimmy Del Rey (RIP). Look up their pictures, and you will know what I mean.

Actually, I didn't mean your comment in particular irked me. Just that the comments (which your original comment reminded me of with the "frat boy" remark) about Hal being written too much like Guy or Kyle irk me because they ended up with a lot of Hal's character traits/characteristics. I also don't think Hal's sense of humour needs a lot of nuance, just a little more maturity to it than the beginning of the New 52 JL and Venditti's New 52 run (although the New 52 version was still 10 years younger than pre-Flashpoint Hal even after the 5 year gap and closer to the Emerald Dawn version of a young Hal)

IMO, it was Geoff Johns that whittled Hal's character in favor of putting him in one big event after another during his run.

I kind of disagree with that. Geoff's Hal was really layered coming out of Rebirth and more like the Hal of Showcase #22, the beginning of Vol. 2 and as written under writers like Wolfman, Wein, Englehart, etc.

The Hal that he brought back was an experienced man who had been through the craziness of being a superhero for over 15 years that was just given a second chance at life, and was not only having to start his life over from absolute scratch (which is why he was forced to start his career again back in the Air Force in order to earn his way back to being a test pilot for an aeronautical engineering firm like Ferris because he had been away for so long and why the Guardians had Hal busted down to a beat cop on Earth again because he wasn’t welcome back on Oa by a lot of the veteran alien GL’s who returned to active duty when the GLC was brought back again) but was also making up for past mistakes that he never got to make up for before (like some of the mistakes he made while he was in the United States Air Force the first time and some of the consequences that stemmed from that, the mistake he made by not burying Abin's spacecraft well enough that nobody would find it, and the consequences that stemmed from that, or not returning Abin's body back to his family and the consequences that stemmed from that, or leaving the lost lanterns in space and the consequences that stemmed from that, his original falling out with Sinestro and some of the consequences that stemmed from that, etc, etc.)

He was also a man of two worlds with responsibilities to both the United States Air Force and the GLC (like he was with both Ferris and the GLC) who was trying his best to build a new life for himself by trying to re-establish his past relationships with his family, friends and co-workers/other heroes while also establishing new relationships and trying to patrol a sector that includes a planet/Earth that is very difficult to patrol because it was/ still stuck in the mindset of international borders.

It wasn't until Brighest Day that I felt that Geoff started to dumb Hal down.

Before that, Geoff wrote a great Hal with a good sense of humour and a lot of experience who could more than hold his own against anybody (even Ollie and Bruce)...

[docmidnite]

[liwanag]

[Johnny]

I wish Johns developed the Hal/Bruce relationship more. Guess he kind of did in Darkseid War, but did Bruce really think the ring was the hero until Hal saved him without his ring? lol

[Anthony Shaw]

Actually, I didn't mean your comment in particular irked me. Just that the comments (which your original comment reminded me of with the "frat boy" remark) about Hal being written too much like Guy or Kyle irk me because they ended up with a lot of Hal's character traits/characteristics. I also don't think Hal's sense of humour needs a lot of nuance, just a little more maturity to it than the beginning of the New 52 JL and Venditti's New 52 run (although the New 52 version was still 10 years younger than pre-Flashpoint Hal even after the 5 year gap and closer to the Emerald Dawn version of a young Hal)

I kind of disagree with that. Geoff's Hal was really layered coming out of Rebirth and more like the Hal of Showcase #22, the beginning of Vol. 2 and as written under writers like Wolfman, Wein, Englehart, etc.

The Hal that he brought back was an experienced man who had been through the craziness of being a superhero for over 15 years that was just given a second chance at life, and was not only having to start his life over from absolute scratch (which is why he was forced to start his career again back in the Air Force in order to earn his way back to being a test pilot for an aeronautical engineering firm like Ferris because he had been away for so long and why the Guardians had Hal busted down to a beat cop on Earth again because he wasn’t welcome back on Oa by a lot of the veteran alien GL’s who returned to active duty when the GLC was brought back again) but was also making up for past mistakes that he never got to make up for before (like some of the mistakes he made while he was in the United States Air Force the first time and some of the consequences that stemmed from that, the mistake he made by not burying Abin's spacecraft well enough that nobody would find it, and the consequences that stemmed from that, or not returning Abin's body back to his family and the consequences that stemmed from that, or leaving the lost lanterns in space and the consequences that stemmed from that, his original falling out with Sinestro and some of the consequences that stemmed from that, etc, etc.)

He was also a man of two worlds with responsibilities to both the United States Air Force and the GLC (like he was with both Ferris and the GLC) who was trying his best to build a new life for himself by trying to re-establish his past relationships with his family, friends and co-workers/other heroes while also establishing new relationships and trying to patrol a sector that includes a planet/Earth that is very difficult to patrol because it was/ still stuck in the mindset of international borders.

It wasn't until Brighest Day that I felt that Geoff started to dumb Hal down.

Before that, Geoff wrote a great Hal with a good sense of humour and a lot of experience who could more than hold his own against anybody (even Ollie and Bruce)...

I see. I liked what Geoff was doing with Hal in the early stories. I just feel that around the SCW, I stopped seeing Hal being fleshed out. More focus was put into making Sinestro an anti-hero. No hero is perfect, but the POW story was PIS, poor Rocket Man. Some ramifications with Rocket Man should have gone down. It would have been interesting if Rocket Man found out Hal was GL, and was given a red ring. Too much time was spent in space, and not enough balance on Earth with friends & family. The Earth-bound rouges were forgotten.

One example of what I mean about nuance is Hal's understated sense of compassion. When given god-like powers, he used it to help his friends, as opposed to ruling/subjugating/seeking vengeance. It is worth noting that different writers, not just Geoff, have shown Hal doing this.

IMO, he's the most fearless in the JL & GLC, but quietly has the biggest heart (which is why the Parallax retcon was genius to me). It is a very interesting dichotomy to me.

But yeah, you are preaching to the choir with me.

I'm glad Grant to using the nonsense, highly competent Hal Jordan.

[Anthony Shaw]

Geoff showing them as different, yet totally equal was great. A lot of great stuff should have been mined out of them due to their unique perspectives on fear. But the other interactions since then were meh, imo. I did like how Brad Meltzer wrote them during his JLA run.

[Anthony Shaw]

He opened a can of whup-culo on a violent Kryptonian.

[Johnny]

The GLC going against villains like Zod and Brainiac was a nice breath of fresh air after years of rainbow Corps.

[docmidnite]

I wish Johns developed the Hal/Bruce relationship more. Guess he kind of did in Darkseid War, but did Bruce really think the ring was the hero until Hal saved him without his ring? lol

Ugh. Albeit, I think that was the Morbius Chair influencing Bruce in the story when he said that, I still think the New 52 versions of Hal and Bruce (although 10 years younger after the 5 year gap than their pre-Flashpoint versions were) were lacking compared to what came before.

Geoff showing them as different, yet totally equal was great. A lot of great stuff should have been mined out of them due to their unique perspectives on fear. But the other interactions since then were meh, imo. I did like how Brad Meltzer wrote them during his JLA run.

Other than Meltzer's JLA and Waid's first arc of the post-Infinite Crisis Brave and The Bold series, I don't think Hal and Bruce were shown together until the New 52 JL. There was the flashback scene of the 2 of them talking on the JLA Satellite (see below) during Blackest Night but unfortunately, I think that was it. That's why I said this earlier...

I wish DC would use Hal and Bruce the way they were used before Flashpoint/The New 52.

Two guys with different views but are both really alike in certain ways and respect each other deep down because of their similarities.