Dragonball M: A DBZ RPG Sign-Up and Discussion Thread II

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Umm, errr ahhh....

So began the Second War in Heaven.

Also. Ishtar's got questions now ... Asha'rah murdered a God and stole his Hakai, only got stripped of power and sealed. Hammer attempted to get ahold of Creation energy without murdering the God of Creation, Shima ... and was straight up murdered and sealed away.

That's some serious escalation for a much lesser 'crime'.

PLOT IS GETTIN' HEAVY MY DUDES.

[Miburo]

Umm, errr ahhh....

Falcon, apologize.

This is reminiscent of when no one gave Vegeta props for buying time for Goku to toss the Spirit bomb against Kid Buu.

....And now Chuthulu is off to carpet bomb my cave.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

So began the Second War in Heaven.

Also. Ishtar's got questions now ... Asha'rah murdered a God and stole his Hakai, only got stripped of power and sealed. Hammer attempted to get ahold of Creation energy without murdering the God of Creation, Shima ... and was straight up murdered and sealed away.

That's some serious escalation for a much lesser 'crime'.

PLOT IS GETTIN' HEAVY MY DUDES.

Sounds like Hammer discovered something he wasn't supposed to and got got to keep it quiet.

[Miburo]

Sounds like Hammer discovered something he wasn't supposed to and got got to keep it quiet.

He discovered how much damage a Namekian corpse can take before becoming ions this time around, and shared it with the entire group present.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Sounds like Hammer discovered something he wasn't supposed to and got got to keep it quiet.

So Hammer got nailed.

More importantly, it's making Ishtar leery of Asha'rah. She would've known about what Hammer did, but the way she reacted was ... hypocritical at best.

He discovered how much damage a Namekian corpse can take before becoming ions this time around, and shared it with the entire group present.

I mean, Ochazuke also showed us why he's not to be fucked with.

[Sub-Zero MKA]

He discovered how much damage a Namekian corpse can take before becoming ions this time around, and shared it with the entire group present.

Good on him, making sacrifices in the name of science. Now they don't need to kill Slak to find out.

So Hammer got nailed.

More importantly, it's making Ishtar leery of Asha'rah. She would've known about what Hammer did, but the way she reacted was ... hypocritical at best.

I mean, Ochazuke also showed us why he's not to be fucked with.

It is suspect, I'll admit that she got off with a lighter sentence for the worse crime. I'm interested in what the explanation for that is, as well as Asha'rah's reaction. If anything, she should have empathized with the guy or at least found out why he tried to do what she did.

[MrSandman]

So Hammer got nailed.

More importantly, it's making Ishtar leery of Asha'rah. She would've known about what Hammer did, but the way she reacted was ... hypocritical at best.



I mean, Ochazuke also showed us why he's not to be fucked with.

Etina: I’d like to think it was a team effort.

White Etrinacite: *on fire* yeah...team effort........anyone got a bucket of water...?

[Miburo]

Good on him, making sacrifices in the name of science. Now they don't need to kill Slak to find out.



It is suspect, I'll admit that she got off with a lighter sentence for the worse crime. I'm interested in what the explanation for that is, as well as Asha'rah's reaction. If anything, she should have empathized with the guy or at least found out why he tried to do what she did.

Do as I say, not as I do.

[Lord Falcon]

So Hammer got nailed.

More importantly, it's making Ishtar leery of Asha'rah. She would've known about what Hammer did, but the way she reacted was ... hypocritical at best.



I mean, Ochazuke also showed us why he's not to be fucked with.

Asha'rah was not in any way angry about Hammer trying to get power. She hated (or as just explained in-game, disdained) him for who he was, not what he did. Frankly, Asha'rah has no idea what method Hammer was attempting to use, merely that he was a cretin who would use whichever path was easiest for him. If it used less blood, it was not because of any moral scruples on his part.


Of course, this could all be retconned by Cleric. The deal with him is that I don't know everything, and Asha'rah doesn't know everything either due to how her mind was shattered. I'm just rolling with my interpretation of Cleric's punches.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Asha'rah was not in any way angry about Hammer trying to get power. She hated (or as just explained in-game, disdained) him for who he was, not what he did. Frankly, Asha'rah has no idea what method Hammer was attempting to use, merely that he was a cretin who would use whichever path was easiest for him. If it used less blood, it was not because of any moral scruples on his part.

The method is noteworthy.

Hammer, a GoD, opted away from murder to get what he wanted. Asha'rah, a GoC, opted into it. Asha'rah played into the system to get what she wanted, Hammer tried to play outside of it.

Yet ... the lesser crime was punished heaviest.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

Ultimately I'm sure this isn't meaningful beyond what I'm making of it, but like ... it's a neat little thread to tug on.

[Lord Falcon]

The method is noteworthy.

Hammer, a GoD, opted away from murder to get what he wanted. Asha'rah, a GoC, opted into it.

Yet the lesser crime was punished heaviest.

We have no idea what method Hammer was going to use, but my understanding/guess was that it had to do with why Cairn Yard is the way it is. And we really have no idea if Hammer was sealed away as punishment or because whichever god he faced lacked the strength to kill him.

Asha'rah killed someone in war time who was on the opposite side of the war. That she happened to cannibalize his power doesn't make it murder. Indar'en was offered a chance to join Asha'rah as the rebellion started, but he refused and attacked as Asha'rah knew he would. That's why she saved offering him the chance for last.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

We have no idea what method Hammer was going to use, but my understanding/guess was that it had to do with why Cairn Yard is the way it is. And we really have no idea if Hammer was sealed away as punishment or because whichever god he faced lacked the strength to kill him.

Asha'rah killed someone in war time who was on the opposite side of the war. That she happened to cannibalize his power doesn't make it murder. Indar'en was offered a chance to join Asha'rah as the rebellion started, but he refused and attacked as Asha'rah knew he would. That's why she saved offering him the chance for last.

Unless Hammer was lying, he was killed and then sealed away beneath the Carin Yard, so at the least it was already there when he was sealed. Regardless of his methods however, it didn't involve the -- at least blatant -- killing of another god.

Also in fairness, it was the opposite side of a war Asha'rah started because she didn't like the way things were being run. Which means Indar'en didn't pick a side so much so as attempt to do his job and y'know, that it later turned out that they'd all been deceived doesn't really make it all better.

Plus like ... Asha'rah baited him to a planet knowing he'd probably decline. That's some Constantine level friendship.

[Lord Falcon]

Unless Hammer was lying, he was killed and then sealed away beneath the Carin Yard, so at the least it was already there when he was sealed. Regardless of his methods however, it didn't involve the -- at least blatant -- killing of another god.

Also in fairness, it was the opposite side of a war Asha'rah started because she didn't like the way things were being run. He didn't pick a side so much so as attempt to do his job. That it later turned out that they'd all been deceived doesn't absolve the sin.

If you're right, that is weird.

As you say, the deception has got nothing to do with it. The question of whether killing Indar'en was murder hinges, from my perspective, on whether the leader of a rebellion fighting on the front lines murders the people they kill.

[Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh]

If you're right, that is weird.

Reason I think it might be, is pretty much that:

Asha'rah killing Indar'en, Ishtar being created by Shek'hinah, the Carin Yard's creation, and Hammer being sealed beneath it all happen in the year 100,000. Then Hammer says he tried to do what Asha'rah did, without the murder ... but it upset someone (who we don't know), so he was killed and sealed beneath the Carin Yard.

I'd say his ... shift in method is simply the result of being trapped, while dead and rotting, for 100,000 years.

It's certainly a working hypothesis, but whether or not it's true ? On Cleric knows for sure.

As you say, the deception has got nothing to do with it. The question of whether killing Indar'en was murder hinges, from my perspective, on whether the leader of a rebellion fighting on the front lines murders the people they kill.

Rebellion implies unjust rule. End of the day, Asha'rah didn't like the "might makes right" ethos. Indar'en didn't seem to care either way, but he was loyal to a fault, and suffered for it. On the whole, I'm not gonna say all those that died were murdered because they chose.

But at the absolute minimum, Indar'en didn't deserve what he got. He was baited to a planet designed to kill him, specifically, and then murdered* when he responded predictably.

*EDIT: Killed, I suppose.