Is CBR hinting that Captain America may have made a Deal with the DEVIL ?!?

[Cmbmool]

I wasn't a great fan of the end of Secret Empire, but if this CBR article is anything to go by, then we maybe in for a sense of Deja vu again...if you know Spider-man mythos or Ghost Rider mythos... https://www.cbr.com/captain-america-...obik-stronger/

As fans of the character: What is your take on this ?

[tliscord]

I read the article and then went back to the issue. My sense of Coates’ theme here is more related to Cap’s guilt at choosing to lead again as the hero, a choice with unintended consequences .... Kobik’s Hydra Stevil. I thought that opening page weaving his origin with that of the Nukes’ was poignant.

I didn’t really appreciate a “deal with the devil” scenario. But it is Marvel....

[tliscord]

I think Coates will focus on Cap’s psychological struggles with the outcome of Secret Empire ... not seeing a Mephisto here.

I’m more interested in a give and take with Stevil frankly.

[Michael Watkins]

it's nothing like that. Kobik acted on Steve's desire to be in fighting shape and her own twisted upbringing by the Red Skull. there was no faustian deal. Steve was taken advantage of.

[tliscord]

it's nothing like that. Kobik acted on Steve's desire to be in fighting shape and her own twisted upbringing by the Red Skull. there was no faustian deal. Steve was taken advantage of.

.. and then there is this too. I agree. That decision which made him a super soldier... and hero, was in itself a character flaw. Directly leading to Stevil. At least I think 2 issues in that’s where they are heading.

[tliscord]

it's nothing like that. Kobik acted on Steve's desire to be in fighting shape and her own twisted upbringing by the Red Skull. there was no faustian deal. Steve was taken advantage of.

.. and then there is this too. I agree. That decision which made him a super soldier... and hero, was in itself a character flaw. Directly leading to Stevil. At least I think 2 issues in that’s where they are heading.

[jackolover]

Let’s see...Steve Rogers was an old man in Avengers Standoff. He was being beat to death by Crossbones and unable to fight back because he lost all his vitality as a nonogenerian.

Along comes Kobik, in a sort of a dream, because Steve was basically unconscious from the beating he was getting from Crossbones. She offers Steve his power back and we are to believe he took this offer, but Nick Spencer the writer never elaborates on what went on. Steve is split into two people - Stevil, and the essence of the once noble Steve Rogers, now stuck in the Cosmic Cube. Now stuck in the COSMIC CUBE. Does this tell anybody that Steve was inside Kobik?

So, as time goes by, the heroes are fighting Stevil in Secret Empire, and somehow wangle a situation where the real Steve Rogers, the noble one, suddenly jumps out of Kobik, in the flesh, and defeats Stevil. Now this returned noble Steve is standing there, and he has to figure out how he got out of Kobik. Is Steve Kobik now?

[Cmbmool]

it's nothing like that. Kobik acted on Steve's desire to be in fighting shape and her own twisted upbringing by the Red Skull. there was no faustian deal. Steve was taken advantage of.

And what was Spider-man's situation in OMD or Johnny Blaze's situation in his life ? Weren't they taken advantage of too ?

[tliscord]

And what was Spider-man's situation in OMD or Johnny Blaze's situation in his life ? Weren't they taken advantage of too ?

Steve never saw the Hydra twist. Never made a choice. Peter did know the consequences of his choice. That would be my read on it.

[theoneandonly]

like every other marvel hero Steve has fallen from the pedestal and the cosmic cube or kobik is responsible for it and to a extent he himself is as he gave in to his understandable desire to become a super soldier again to fight the never ending fight instead of accepting his mortality and succumbing to death. Also it's funny how agent hill has always been present or precipitated a scenario where cap becomes a renegade. it will be a while before the fallout of the secret empire will be put in the past and heroes will have lost the blind trust they had in him perhaps permanently.

[jackolover]

like every other marvel hero Steve has fallen from the pedestal and the cosmic cube or kobik is responsible for it and to a extent he himself is as he gave in to his understandable desire to become a super soldier again to fight the never ending fight instead of accepting his mortality and succumbing to death. Also it's funny how agent hill has always been present or precipitated a scenario where cap becomes a renegade. it will be a while before the fallout of the secret empire will be put in the past and heroes will have lost the blind trust they had in him perhaps permanently.

I know Hill made Cap a renegade in CW#1, but where else did she cause Cap to go renegade?

And it is an interesting concept you suggest that Steve Rogers must remain immortal to help fight the good fight as long as he can.

[jackolover]

.. and then there is this too. I agree. That decision which made him a super soldier... and hero, was in itself a character flaw. Directly leading to Stevil. At least I think 2 issues in that’s where they are heading.

Wow, Steve had a character flaw and it was that he desired to be a hero? I’m not sure if you mean Steve’s character flaw was accepting to join the program to be a super soldier, or, that Steve was supremely depressed at being impotent as a man?

To me, I see Steve as a man born with physical frailty, but with the heart and resolve of someone heroic and unable to show it. The Marvel or Atlas story has this great heart given the opportunity to act on his desires, rather than, this man with a psychosis gets power and he can’t live life unless he is punching a bad guy. I don’t know if super soldier Steve could live a normal life if it was idyllic and safe, or, he would be too restless and go where the fight was. My feeling is that the world never reaches that idyllic state where there is no danger or threats, so that question is acedemic.

[theoneandonly]

I know Hill made Cap a renegade in CW#1, but where else did she cause Cap to go renegade?

And it is an interesting concept you suggest that Steve Rogers must remain immortal to help fight the good fight as long as he can.

"pleasant hill". was her brainchild.

[jackolover]

"pleasant hill". was her brainchild.

Steve Rogers was some aged and powerless super hero when Maria Hill invited him to inspect Pleasant Hill, and it was there that Kobik made Steve young Captain America, the “Hydra Cap”. Is that what you mean by making Cap a renegade? If so, I suppose that does qualify. I never thought of it that way. In the CW case, I saw Cap as a renegade only because that’s how he was labelled by Tony Stark and the press. In the Secret Empire case, I saw Cap manipulated into an imagi-Hydra, something Kobik should have got rid of after the real Steve Rogers reappeared.

You may be hinting that the real Steve Rogers (who returned at the end of SE) is also a renegade, considering the suggestion of the “bargain” being something of a character flaw in Rogers. If Steve Rogers sees that his return has been a bargain, will Steve go back to Kobik and ask her to change him back, seeing as Steve wants to see himself as honorable and above board?