Quote Originally Posted by penthotal View Post
Actually, the fact that they choose to use their biggest brands to tell these stories shows how serious they are about it. A Thor or Iron Man book will always sell more than a New Character one, so the run will last longer and more readers will be exposed to the character, helping it acquire a larger fanbase. Also, media wouldn't care the same way for New Black / Female Character while they talk extensively about a black Cap or female Thor, this way the 259.700.000 americans that don't read comic books get to know of the existence of these characters, and someone maybe even start buying them. From a commercial and communication point of view it's the most solid plan they could have come up with, and no company is allowed to make their business plans without thinking about economics and communication, it's just how the world works.It's not even true they don't believe in original diverse characters, there are pushing a lot of them. Black Panther, Power Man & Iron Fist, Nighthawk, Moongirl and Devil Dinosaur, Ms. Marvel, Squirrel Girl, Hellcat, Mockingbird etc.
I think forum readers are a bit exaggerated in their reactions to this matter, honestly. So we had a year and half of Sam Cap before having both of them. We will have a couple of years of Jane as Thor before having both of them. Peter and Miles always coexisted and nobody has been left without their favorite hero. The same will happen with Tony Stark and Riri. The two Wolverine book have both good sales, while the original Wolverine was burn out as a character and failed three relaunch in a row, when it will come back it will it will probably able to make decent sales again.
In the long run, Marvel strategy seems to be more sensible than the one proposed by fans and it's not like it will take decades to have both original and legacy characters coexist, we are almost already there. And nobody is forcing anyone, everyone remains free of buying the book they like and ignore the others.
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Quote Originally Posted by nnelg View Post
It is because it is? That is funny. So its okay to complain about a character being replaced as long as you don't mention the reason for the change? Considering the real problem is with the people complaining about the lack of diversity NOT BUYING the books they claim they want. Guess who are buying Wolverine, Thor, Hulk, Captain America and soon the new Ironman books? The fans of Logan, Thor, Bruce Banner, Steve Rogers and Tony Stark. Where was this support for diversity when Storm, Warmachine! Sif and all of the other "non white males" titles that Marvel kept trying to sell for years? It obviously wasn't there otherwise those books wouldn't have been canceled. How many times did Warmachine get canceled? I guess if Marvel would've renamed him Ironman people would have been on the bandwagon. So if I am to understand you correctly we(fans of Marvels most popular characters) are supposed to prop the diversity agenda up with our wallets but not complain about things we do not like? Have you ever been to a comic shop? If you had you would know the people complaining are the ones buying the books they are complaining about. The only titles that I mentioned that I am not buying are Thor(shit writing) and Ironman(always hated Stark).
I said it before fans complained when Dick(white) replaced Bruce as Batman. They complained when Eric Masterson(white) replaced Thor. They complained when Bucky(white) replaced Steve as Captain America. Go to a Comic shop an look through the stack of the person complaining the most and loudest. 9 times out of 10 you'll find the books that he/she's complaining about. I stopped complaining about Thor when I stopped buying it. Go look at my post and you will see. I miss reading Thor.I think some Jurgens or Simonson is in order. So get off your high horse everything isn't about race. And there is obviously a diversity agenda. One of the best books Marvel is publishing is Sam Wilson: Captain America. Why can't it be called Falcon? I think it is so they can brag about a male black character in a ongoing. I also think the book wouldn't last a year without the words Captain America on the cover. Oddly enough one of the worst books is Steve Rogers. Nazi-Cap?
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Quote Originally Posted by leo619 View Post
And that's the entire point, the comic book readers have been having a stranglehold when it comes to minority representation. They were preventing new characters from being given success, which kept the comic book superhero appearing towards one demographic, like it was back to the 1940's. So marvel was stuck with a dilemna, have their comic book field continue to look like we were back in the 1940's, or do something about it to reflect modern society. Combine that with the fact that Marvel is making visual media of television and movies, where diversity is not only encourage, but almost expected, and you have the problem that marvel was is.
So Marvel found a loophole, they realized that legacy diverse characters based off of mainstream franchises has a greater degree of success then new characters, due to the familiarity of the franchise. So Marvel decided to use that loophole, and now we have the greatest degree of diversity in the MU since the MU debuted. This not only allows them to reflect the modern world like they want, it allows them to be more future proof as the American demographic landscape continues to shift to a non-white demographic. In the end, it's no different than any other company attempting to adapt to a quickly changing landscape.
So you can't say it isn't about race, and then say it's a diversity agenda. If it's a diversity agenda then it is about race (not just race but race is included), and if it isn't a diversity agenda then it isn't about race. But you can't have both. It's like saying isn't about race, but it's obviously a Affirmative Action. They are intertwined, and can't be separated.
With that said, no one is disputing that they are pushing towards diversity. But people want to put a negative spin on it as if only with "diversity" is it an agenda. Everything Marvel created is an Agenda, it's a marketing aspect to reach different audiences as much as possible to guarantee success as a business. I put it to you this way, if the MU was created just now, and not in 1940s plus you best believe all the characters would not be looking the way they do now. Why was pretty much all characters white males? Because the demographic of that time was primarily white males with many containing racist attitudes. The chance of Captain America being the success he is now if he was created at that time as a non white male would be slim to none. So what did Marvel do? Marvel had an "agenda" the agenda to reach the white demographic.
So everything marvel does, is pandering. Everything marvel does, is agenda based. They are a business. Period. So to be mad that the current agenda that they have doesn't fully reflect your taste shows the privilege that people enjoy.
As the common statement goes
"To those who are privilege, equality starts to look like oppression."
So as mentioned before, it's perfectly fine to be mad at your character being removed. That's understandable, but to be mad over the fact that Marvel is trying to even the playing field by not having almost all white characters literally dominating the mainstream marvel atmosphere shows it's bigotry.
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by mathew101281
All superhero comics are pandering on some level, always have been. Pandering is why Batman has like ten books on the shelves at any given time. Pandering is why fishnets are suddenly adequate attire for crime fighting.
Pandering is how an ordinary human in a flying rodent costume can stand up to gods and demigods on a consistant basis and regularly come out on top. Pandering is why Hulk is a monster, but She-Hulk is a fitness model.