Why are they no new Iconic characters at Marvel?(or in comics)

[jackolover]

In looking for modern takes on the Superhero genre I came across what isn't a very big secret. They aren't many if any modern heroes that stand on the same level as the best of the past. The modern era in comics hasn't created one character you can say stands on the same level as Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Wonder Woman, Captian America,etc. Iron Man and Wolverine have pushed their way into convo and Deadpool, Black Panther and say Harley Quinn are creeping into the picture . Nothing seems to be close to obvious big ones in comics. Now Manga has some huge stars in Naturo and Goku who have some of the elements but don't have reach as the iconic silver and gold age characters.


So what do think is the cause of this because classic heroism always sticks around imo stories of Heracles, Robin Hood, King Arthur still stick out. Shouldn't there be modern stories and heroes that resonate in this era like those in past?
Is the focus on old heroes blocking the new heroes? When they revamp some older characters are we missing out on original characters? Because some revamp are so extreme if they didn't have a similar look you would think they are different characters.

Or I am missing something and they are heroes that are approaching those iconic guys when they get a little more exposure in this nerd friendly media hero heavy era and they will blow up after older hero crush is over. Who do you think is next hero that could make the leap if they were given the right push?

***

You need a break from super heroes of like 10 years, like in the 1950’s during the Wertham crisis. Then people have to come up with something different in a vacuum.

As it is today, creating a new character in a landscape filled with similar themes makes it too difficult to come up with something unique, because it reminds you of one of the icons who already exist.

I think your next iconic hero comes from a similar layoff period as the Wertham era. Like some crash, or world war, and you have to be encouraged by someone who comes out of that crisis. Generally, a really big iconic hero emerges in a landscape of chaos/crisis, like it was in the 1930’s where Democracy was under threat in the US by fascists and communist voices everywhere. Capitalism failed because of the 1929 crash, so Americans were toying with other creeds. You had to get the country back on track, and to do that you had to get iconic figures that resonated with the people.

Superman was the first icon because people felt powerless to do anything in the 1930’s. Superman came along like a breath of fresh air, because there was the answer, all in one package. How to help people, rescue people who were feeling paralysed, by doing good acts, because Superman was powerful. Bullets couldn’t hurt him, he could fly, but most of all he was inclined to save the helpless. That triggered something in the human spirit that needed that kick of inspiration that was holy. Goodness.

[Crazy Diamond]

Most of the characters considered iconic right now are anything but. Some fans may speak of them and worship at their altar but if it weren't for the spinoffs most people wouldn't know who they are. Even then, outside of the US superheroes weren't a big deal till relatively recently and even that depends on the country.

As superhero comics become more known through movie and TV, the views of fans coming from that background will conflict with the long-term readers and there's more of the former than the latter if the numbers are any indication. So what is considered iconic on here may be different than what you would hear on the street.

[Triniking1234]

The two's stories are pretty similar. Both comic book nerds who become hero's because they wanted to be hero's rather than some sad back story.

Its not hard to see why people compair the two.

Virgil Hawkins (the more popular cartoon version) and Kamala Khan have a similar story for how they get their powers. Virgil becomes Static because most of the evil Bang Babies are people he was running with so he feels responsible and he doesn't innocent people to die like his mum (no sad back-story. oof). Kamala becomes a superhero because most of her role models are heroes. Virgil was an passable science student but he becomes more interested in it to help understand his powers. Kamala's interest in science varies with the plot.

[dkrook]

I don't see why this isn't obvious, comic readers tamp down any attempt at it. Comic book writers get tunnel vision on the same few characters. Editorial tries to be kingmakers. That's before we even touch the cultural/ political elements that are present more often than not. We have the beaten dead horse of Moon Knight still being dragged up, but potential clean slate character of Blue Marvel being buried and written off. Why? This is touching the tip of the iceberg.

[skyvolt2000]

Virgil Hawkins (the more popular cartoon version) and Kamala Khan have a similar story for how they get their powers. Virgil becomes Static because most of the evil Bang Babies are people he was running with so he feels responsible and he doesn't innocent people to die like his mum (no sad back-story. oof). Kamala becomes a superhero because most of her role models are heroes. Virgil was an passable science student but he becomes more interested in it to help understand his powers. Kamala's interest in science varies with the plot.

Comic book Virgil went to that fight/gang meeting to KILL his bully-Hotstreak. He chickened out and then came the Big Bang gas. He got his powers and went from there. Yet when he faced Hotstreak-his fear of being bullied came back and he lost that fight. He overcame that in the second fight. So if you were trying to sell him now-what version would you use? Comic book one is more of a commentary of the gun shootings in schools that we have seen. Yet he got powers and NEVER went after his bullies in revenge.

Unlike Kamala, Static has a unique backstory, flaws, a complex personality, struggles, and wasn’t stealing the mantle from an unrelated superhero to boost his popularity or is linked to another group of established heroes. He’s wholly unique and a great character.

You mean like Dick Grayson?
Conner Kent?
Tim Drake?
Bart Allen?
Cassandra Cain?
Michael Holt?
Starfire
I do remember others having the names linked to those guys.

[skyvolt2000]

On the topic of staying power, Mark Gruenwald once stated in the 90s that Squirrel Girl (who used as an example rather than specifically) is a nothing character that wont last long. She's actually has a lot more staying power than a lot of 90s creations.

She has staying powering because there are not a LEGION of cooks in the kitchen trying to goal post once another in whoa can toss out the iconic story.
When you have that FREEDOM to try what you want with something-you can get higher success.

Unlike Kamala, Static has a unique backstory, flaws, a complex personality, struggles, and wasn’t stealing the mantle from an unrelated superhero to boost his popularity or is linked to another group of established heroes. He’s wholly unique and a great character.

I guess you don't bother with Batman or Superman universe.

How many Robins & Batgirls have we seen? Along with Supergirls? Lets not forget Superboys and other Supermen.

Nightwing was someone ELSE'S name before Dick got it.
Harlequin was someone ELSE's name before you know who got it.
Let not forget Alan Scott and that green ring of his.

Sure, if we were taking about side characters without any real significance to the plot, that is not really uncommon, but that's not representation. Given how these discussions tend to revolve exclusively around main characters, that argument doesn't actually hold.

Because those who complain are NOT reading the books in question. Ms Marvel does NOT fit Kurt's complaint. I would say the last Black Lightning mini fits it WAY more. A case could be made for Nighthawk too.
I say Ms Marvel reads more like Static's first series-race or religion is the LAST thing I think about when reading those books.


In fact look at the majority of the race stories-whose the general target? If the only time I see a POC in a book like Spider-Man or others is a race or ABC After School Special story-I might have an issue with it because all I am seeing is that in books that get more placement in stores versus Static's first series or Blue Marvel's minis.

[comicscollector]

Most of the characters considered iconic right now are anything but. Some fans may speak of them and worship at their altar but if it weren't for the spinoffs most people wouldn't know who they are. Even then, outside of the US superheroes weren't a big deal till relatively recently and even that depends on the country.

As superhero comics become more known through movie and TV, the views of fans coming from that background will conflict with the long-term readers and there's more of the former than the latter if the numbers are any indication. So what is considered iconic on here may be different than what you would hear on the street.

I have been Reading and collecting comic books since i was a kid,and i can say that in Portugal,Brasil,Germany,Ireland and United Kingdom the iconic super heroes have been available in newsagents shops since decades now.
I started Reading and collecting comic books almost thirty years ago,and in Portugal there have always been comic books of Spider-Man,Batman,Captain America and so on.In Portugal many times the comic books available were imported from Brasil and translated to Portuguese,more in pocket comic books format.But the imported original American comic books were available in bigger newsagents shops as well in Portugal.All though those shops with imported American comic books were more difficult to find but there have always been shops like that as long as i can remember.
As i mentioned in Portugal for the majority of time the super heroes comic books that were available to sell were from Brasil,so i always thought the market there for comic books was something else.So when i went to Brasil i could see many places selling comic books and many shops that sold second hand comic books.
I used to live in Germany when i was a kid,and there were comic books of super heroes translated to Germn,and there are still available to sell there as i noticed recently when i went there in vacations.
In Ireland,super heroes comics are imported from England,and there are many shops that sell comic books as well.
In England considerating that they even made their own version of Marvel comics (Marvel UK) decades ago and that there are publishers there that re-publish Marvel comics i guess is the same in England.
So in many countries in Europe and others as Brasil,super hero comic books are not a new thing at all.

[mathew101281]

Being an iconic character is about more then being popular.

1. Most modern Superheroes would never be able to exist independent of shared universe they exist in. If the DC universe folded tomorrow Batman and Superman would be just fine, because the worlds built around them are so developed that they don’t need the shared universe notion to prop them up. That can’t be said for a lot of the newer characters who don’t really have any villains supporting characters or locations that are unique to them.

2. You can only go so far without good villains. Heroes that don’t have villains of their own tend to have popularity that is tranistory by nature. Most of the major players in a hero’s rogue’s gallery tend to be introduced relatively early in the heroes history. Their aren’t many cases of heroes that started off with a weak gallery then suddenly got a good one. You can always tell when a heroes creator didn’t put enough effort into the villains and supporting cast, and now later writers are trying to jumble together some semblance of villain list by pilfering b and c list villains from other galleries. This might work for one or two characters, but you can’t really make a gallery that way.

3. To me an iconic hero isn’t a character, but an ecosystem that can sustain itself independently from other franchises.

4. Most of these new heroes are add ons or derivatives of existing franchises, and that will always limit them to some degree.

[Username taken]

Plenty of possible names have been mentioned that may become iconic, but "New" & "Iconic" don't go together. These possible names aren't well established yet. Takes time. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, etc weren't considered iconic until many years after they premiered. Super popular, sure. Kamala may fit that bill. She will have to retain that popularity and continue to grow for quite awhile longer. New characters are also fighting against the amount of comics that can be put out on shelves vs the amount they can sell. There are already too many comics being pushed out that don't deserve their own monthly title. Kind of a catch-22. To get the masses to notice a new character you almost have to debut them in a major title, but then they become a secondary character more often than not. Who knows, 25 years from now, Moon Girl may be the biggest name around.

Exactly.

New and Iconic don't actually work together.

That being said, a lot of characters that might not get the shine might become iconic in later year for a number of reasons. As someone mentioned, Squirrel Girl was a joke character when created but against all odds has somehow outlasted the "kewl" characters from the 90s.

[kilderkin]

Being an iconic character is about more then being popular.

1. Most modern Superheroes would never be able to exist independent of shared universe they exist in. If the DC universe folded tomorrow Batman and Superman would be just fine, because the worlds built around them are so developed that they don’t need the shared universe notion to prop them up. That can’t be said for a lot of the newer characters who don’t really have any villains supporting characters or locations that are unique to them.

2. You can only go so far without good villains. Heroes that don’t have villains of their own tend to have popularity that is tranistory by nature. Most of the major players in a hero’s rogue’s gallery tend to be introduced relatively early in the heroes history. Their aren’t many cases of heroes that started off with a weak gallery then suddenly got a good one. You can always tell when a heroes creator didn’t put enough effort into the villains and supporting cast, and now later writers are trying to jumble together some semblance of villain list by pilfering b and c list villains from other galleries. This might work for one or two characters, but you can’t really make a gallery that way.

3. To me an iconic hero isn’t a character, but an ecosystem that can sustain itself independently from other franchises.

4. Most of these new heroes are add ons or derivatives of existing franchises, and that will always limit them to some degree.

This is a very interesting point

Iconic hero characters often have their own, personal iconic villains attached

how many great new villains have been created in say, the last decade

People I know not into comics, have still heard of joker, Luther, Dr octopus from tv shows or cartoons

the films are adding recognition to Loki, thanos, but not many new characters are in these films yet

Panther and wonder woman have imo had the biggest impact but neither are new, Deadpool did well too

Maybe Groot and rocket did well but they didn't sustain books coz they were only in lcs and few non comic book fans visit them from a movie

Deadpool trades are all over book and music stores in the uk, but I haven't seen any bought when I've been in them, I think it's a price point thing there, marvel trades are not cheap and even licensed reprints can be a pricey choice compared to a film disc or download

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

The most recent characters to become iconic were Jessica jones and the Runaways. Both came out over a decade ago so maybe check back in a decade?

Usage also plays a role as newer characters tend to be discarded faster and used as cannon fodder.

[mathew101281]

This is a very interesting point

Iconic hero characters often have their own, personal iconic villains attached

how many great new villains have been created in say, the last decade

People I know not into comics, have still heard of joker, Luther, Dr octopus from tv shows or cartoons

the films are adding recognition to Loki, thanos, but not many new characters are in these films yet

Panther and wonder woman have imo had the biggest impact but neither are new, Deadpool did well too

Maybe Groot and rocket did well but they didn't sustain books coz they were only in lcs and few non comic book fans visit them from a movie

Deadpool trades are all over book and music stores in the uk, but I haven't seen any bought when I've been in them, I think it's a price point thing there, marvel trades are not cheap and even licensed reprints can be a pricey choice compared to a film disc or download

It’s like the publishers go through all this effort to show how diverse their characters are but then don’t do the hard work of making sure that diversity is sustainable.

[Triniking1234]

Comic book Virgil went to that fight/gang meeting to KILL his bully-Hotstreak. He chickened out and then came the Big Bang gas. He got his powers and went from there. Yet when he faced Hotstreak-his fear of being bullied came back and he lost that fight. He overcame that in the second fight. So if you were trying to sell him now-what version would you use? Comic book one is more of a commentary of the gun shootings in schools that we have seen. Yet he got powers and NEVER went after his bullies in revenge.

This actually helps the Static's origin is better than Kamala's origin I was responding to so thanks very much.

[Colt Cape]

I feel that this is called that instead of coming up with creative new designs, writers tend to instead reuse old ones or give pre-existing titles to new characters.

[skyvolt2000]

It’s like the publishers go through all this effort to show how diverse their characters are but then don’t do the hard work of making sure that diversity is sustainable.

For the most part no one wants to go through the battles that it takes.

Just throwing diverse folks in books and calling it a day is not going to cut it.

Look at where Miles is after 7 years.

Had his own book. STAYED IN HIS OWN BOOK for 3 years.

Did stuff in minis and a few events.

Joined some teams and got some merchandise.

Now look at Duke Thomas. BARELY in Batman books. Doing nothing in Detective Comics stealth Outsider pitch. Despite a well received mini.

Yet folks are not given a reason to invest because nothing else of significance is being done with him.