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  1. #16
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Disciple of Redd View Post
    Those stories of her being a clone still happened, they still inform who she is, and now there is a strong disincentive to repeat those stories.

    Now there has to be a new angle on X-23. This could lead to an evolution.
    Not really. It retcons the other stories as lies. Taylor’s take on X-23 has already shown disregard for the original KY version by making her perversely become the new Wolverine to “honor” Logan, even though his greatest wish for her was literally to not follow in his footsteps and live a normal life. She also had struggles in the KY stories. Not so much anymore. Now she’s perfect all the time. Today the final nail was hammered into the coffin by retconning her into not being Logan’s clone anymore. The core concept of the character. (When someone asks who X-23 is, you tell them “Wolverine’s female clone.” Not Wolverine’s daughter.) Gone. Just like that. And for what?
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  2. #17
    Mutant Avenger Psi-Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    One of the X-Men isn't a mutant but has been genetically altered to look like a mutant! That means the X-Men might have a sleeper agent in their ranks!!!!
    Not this again.

  3. #18
    Mutant Avenger Psi-Lord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hush View Post
    One of the X-Men isn't a mutant but has been genetically altered to look like a mutant! That means the X-Men might have a sleeper agent in their ranks!!!!
    Not this again.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Not really. It retcons the other stories as lies. Taylor’s take on X-23 has already shown disregard for the original KY version by making her perversely become the new Wolverine to “honor” Logan, even though his greatest wish for her was literally to not follow in his footsteps and live a normal life. She also had struggles in the KY stories. Not so much anymore. Now she’s perfect all the time. Today the final nail was hammered into the coffin by retconning her into not being Logan’s clone anymore. The core concept of the character. (When someone asks who X-23 is, you tell them “Wolverine’s female clone.” Not Wolverine’s daughter.) Gone. Just like that. And for what?
    How does it make them lies? Kimura still abused her for giggles. People still insulted her. She still went through all that pain of learning to value her own existence. Laura learning she wasn't a true clone all along and that she ACTUALLY carries some of Sarah's DNA inside her doesn't mean that it never happened. It doesn't magically wipe away all of her struggles with self-worth, or remove all of her doubts. As I said, it actually gives her even MORE to struggle.

  5. #20
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambaryerno View Post
    She's still the product of genetic experimentation and engineering rather than "natural" birth, and that won't change her sense of "otherness."
    So is every kid in the real world conceived through in vitro fertilization. Something extremely common. Laura is now in the same boat as all of them. This retcon makes her no longer a clone. Unless you consider all of the real IVF kids to be clones.
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    The fake mutant is Psylocke right? She's in a recreated body that was copied from Kwannon, that just so happened to have powers similar to her original body

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckystar. View Post
    X-23’s revelation was just unnecessary and dumb. It changes nothing really and just takes away from Laura’s origin and struggles in the beginning. Just like Gentle, Tom Taylor just can’t help himself retconning characteds to be more uninteresting.

    Now I’m really curious about the fake mutant.
    I agree that the retcon to Laura's origin is unnecessary, but I didn't mind the retcon to Gentle's. Making his seizures psychosomatic and then curing them in one issue was a bit messy but at least he's not constantly under threat of dying anymore.

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member davetvs's Avatar
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    How are people even surprised by the Laura reveal? It was obvious since Target X; she was drawn to look exactly like Sarah Kinney. It also doesn't invalidate her origin since she is still a clone with someone else's DNA spliced in with Logan's. She's still not "a real person" by the standard definition.

  8. #23
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    I wonder if they are further going to retcon Sarah as being a undercover shield agent superhero which will impart secondary mutation abilities to Laura.
    Last edited by theoneandonly; 08-08-2018 at 11:42 AM.

  9. #24
    Astonishing Member Knives's Avatar
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    For me it does not make any difference I always thought of Logan and Laura as father and daughter as I think of Laura and Gabby as sisters. On the other hand I understand that some are not happy is always complicated to change the history of the origins of heroes.

    Now about the issue itself Stark at least this time did what was correct even though he hesitated. And I'm pretty damn sure if he was alone he would have picked up the data for himself.

    Now about the alleged infiltrator or sleeping agent this is not exactly the first time and will not be the last just hope it is not one of the main characters we still have problems with Madelyne Pryor and Spider because of it.

  10. #25
    BAMF!!!!! KurtW95's Avatar
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    Posting here the poll I made and put in the X-23 Appreciation Thread. What do people prefer? Female clone of Logan (with Sarah Kinney as surrogate) or IVF daughter of Logan and Sarah Kinney.

    https://www.strawpoll.me/16234247
    Good Marvel characters- Bring Them Back!!!

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Cyke is Slim's Avatar
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    I like that she is Logan's daughter now, it opens more arcs & storylines for her but wouldn't Wolverine have smelled it?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyke is Slim View Post
    I like that she is Logan's daughter now, it opens more arcs & storylines for her but wouldn't Wolverine have smelled it?
    Why? He never knew Sarah to be able to pick out her scent.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    Posting here the poll I made and put in the X-23 Appreciation Thread. What do people prefer? Female clone of Logan (with Sarah Kinney as surrogate) or IVF daughter of Logan and Sarah Kinney.

    https://www.strawpoll.me/16234247
    all this dose in confirm that the replacement for the damage chromosome was from Sarah(some thing most people suspected),it dose confirm that she is a IVF daughter.

  14. #29
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    As i said about Laura's reveal i the Wolverine thread, i'm neutral about it, but for another side this mean that Logan has a biological child that i don't dislike, f#$% then frankly .

    As for the mini itself, this is middle of the road for me, not good but not bad exactly, this is what happens when you overhype things Taylor.

    As for the traitor, is either Firestar because i don't get why he was even in the funeral or Kitty posessed by Ogun in his last attemp to troll Logan lol. The rest don't see that likely, for another side Soule mentioned that Ororo was going to play a part in Return of Wolverine, maybe she know something that others don't .

  15. #30
    Northern Lights Beaubier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davetvs View Post
    How are people even surprised by the Laura reveal? It was obvious since Target X; she was drawn to look exactly like Sarah Kinney. It also doesn't invalidate her origin since she is still a clone with someone else's DNA spliced in with Logan's. She's still not "a real person" by the standard definition.
    It was never her creators' intention that Sarah Kinney spliced her own DNA into Laura. That was always a fan theory, which Taylor has now inserted into the book. Personally, I am not a fan of this reframing of Laura to be SK and Logan's biological daughter. It pretty much tosses out a lot of her past stories as unnecessary struggles, due to a failure on Sarah Kinney's part of not revealing the truth to her (or Logan) in her letters.

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