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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    That's a ridiculously easy thing to work around.

    Instead of being inspired by a Zorro movie, he's inspired by Zorro news reports. Bam. Done.
    LOL nobody argued it wasn't an easy thing to work if they wanted to explore it, especially for an elseworld.
    There is so many ways they can easily do it.
    It's probably more a mater of working out licensing rights.

    As far in continuity your changing it to a news report, you kind of miss the whole point of it being used as the specific movie they saw the night his parents were killed. And using that character he saw in the same movie that robed him of his parents, as the means to reinvent himself.
    Your changing it to a random "news reports. Bam. Done" kind of loses that significant movie connection, which is why it's there.

    As far as elseworld, by all means, there are so many ways to go.
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-10-2018 at 04:07 PM.

  2. #32
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    LOL nobody argued it wasn't an easy thing to work if they wanted to explore it, especially for an elseworld.

    As far in continuity your changing it to a news report, you kind of miss the whole point of it being used as the movie they saw the night his parents were killed.
    Your changing it to a "news reports. Bam. Done" doesn't work.
    I don't see how it changes it that much. Bruce was inspire by a heroic figure he saw right before his parents died.

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I don't see how it changes it that much. Bruce was inspire by a heroic figure he saw right before his parents died.
    They go to the movies, that night.
    The whole point of the nod was in naming the movie they saw, and that's how it's become often referenced as Zorro.
    If in the origin the reference was they were listening to the Radio that night, it could just as easily have been the Shadow.
    Or reading the comic strips, it could have been the Phantom.
    Or it could have been a Dracula movie.
    Any of those and others could work as nods, since Kane and Finger drew inspiration from many sources of the time.
    As per the origin however they went to the movies.
    So naming the movie became the thing. I believe the first to do so was Miller in TDKR, although there is apparently a letter column where a fan asks, and Bob Rozakis firsts suggested Zorro.

    Since Both Kane and finger reference Fairbanks who played Zorro in the movie, as inspiration, the point of the nod, was to reference the movie.
    No it's not essential to the story or character (as I said), it's just the reason for the nod is; naming the movie that inspired them.
    Which seems to be completely lost on you.

    I'm not saying it can't be changed to a news report, I'm saying doing so changes the whole reason for the nod. ...which is to name the movie.

    As far as an elseworld, by all means there is many ways to go.

    Making Zorro a real in-world character, would absolutely work.
    Zorro has been a legacy character almost from the start, see Fairbank's Son of Zorro.
    And in fact Zorro was a modern character, fighting mobsters with tommy-guns, swinging from city roof tops, and riding off in a black sedan, before Batman even existed.


    (1937)(1939)

    So Batman could have easilly met a contemporary Zorro.
    Or inspired by one from the past.
    Or suggest the movie they saw was inspired by an in-world real Zorro.
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-10-2018 at 04:09 PM.

  4. #34
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    No it's not essential to the story or character, it's just the reason for the nod; naming the movie that inspired them.
    Which seems to be completely lost on you.
    It's not lost on me, but like you said It's not important to the story or character.

    You seem to be treating a nod like it's important. It's a nod. It isn't important at all. It's flavor. If you want to give the story a different feel, you change it, and nothing of value is lost.

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    ^ I would love to see it!


    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    It's not lost on me, but like you said It's not important to the story or character.

    You seem to be treating a nod like it's important. It's a nod. It isn't important at all. It's flavor. If you want to give the story a different feel, you change it, and nothing of value is lost.
    LOL! The nod is not important, it's just that; a nod to one of the characters that inspired Batman.
    Who it's important to, probably depends on the creators, some who reference it others who don't, and to the individual reader, who like to see Zorro referenced, or not.
    If anything you are giving it to much importance by thinking it needs to be switched to a news report.
    The only reason for the nod is to make it the movie which is already part of the story. We know They were walking home from a movie.

    It's not really important to the Batman character, you could replace the movie with an opera about a Bat if you want.



    You know what else isn't that import, is having Batman crossover with Zorro.
    And while I would love to see it, that may just be certain readers who would want to see it.
    So what.

    I'm not saying any one is more important than the other. Neither are that important. LOL!
    You wondered why we haven't had a Zorro crossover?
    Right now referencing Zorro as the in-story film, has become somewhat a recurring tradition, and that is how he exists in the DCU.
    Just acknowledging that.

    -

    That said I would still love to see them crossover.
    Probably the biggest obstacle is the time discrepancy if you want to use the traditional Zorro, you have to invoke time travel, which isn't a big deal (it occurs in the DCU)
    Or you just use a Legacy Zorro character, which have already been established (see my previous post).
    It all works.

    -

    One place that shared universe was somewhat implied was when Adam West played a character called Dr. Wayne, an eccentric inventor in the New world Zorro series. .
    The unspoken implication being he was the great ancestor of Bruce Wayne, inspired by Zorro's methods, theme, lair, etc... who might pass down the knowledge to his descendant:
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-08-2018 at 04:12 AM.

  6. #36
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    I heard about Dracula before know batman existence.

    More famous? Maybe Batman..

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    That's a ridiculously easy thing to work around.

    Instead of being inspired by a Zorro movie, he's inspired by Zorro news reports. Bam. Done.
    Or a movie based on the life of Zorro. Even if they DID make Zorro 'real' in whatever elseworlds they had, he'd still have to be set back in the past to still be Zorro. Horses, swords, fighting the Spanish. Don Diego would have some kind of legendary status like Davy Crockett or Abraham Lincoln. Probably a ton of movies about him.

  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post

    Making Zorro a real in-world character, would absolutely work.....

    .... suggest the movie they saw was inspired by an in-world real Zorro.
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Or a movie based on the life of Zorro. Even if they DID make Zorro 'real' in whatever elseworlds they had, he'd still have to be set back in the past to still be Zorro. Horses, swords, fighting the Spanish. Don Diego would have some kind of legendary status like Davy Crockett or Abraham Lincoln. Probably a ton of movies about him.
    Yep, suggested it too, that ^ totally works.
    Keeps the fun in-universe nod to the movie they saw, and allows for an in-world "real" Zorro, crossover.

    You just have to determine if the Zorro that Batman meets is:

    - The classic(the one who actually inspired the movie he saw), Who he'd have to meet by way of a time-displacement story.
    What's great if you have the Joker time-displaced too, you can have Batman's permanently scarred nemesis the Joker, team of with Zorro's permanently scarred nemesis; Captain Ramón whose face Zorro marked with a horrible "Z".
    Both scarred for life and consumed on revenge, working together.

    -Or if it's a legacy "modern" descendant of Zorro, which as indicated already existed in the Zorro franchise - https://community.cbr.com/showthread...=1#post1633947
    The best (and most fun to me)^ I think would be James (Santiago) Vega version, who already existed and can meet with a Batman set in the pulp era.
    (1937)(1939)


    -Dynamite also created a Zorro set in that era , for their pulp era crossover which included Zorro, Shadow, Green Hornet, the Spider and more
    Dynamite's Shadow recently crossed over with Batman, so there is no reason their Zorro couldn't as well.



    -Or just create an all new contemporary Legacy descendant Zorro, to best go along with the most current and contemporary incarnation of Batman.
    Batman inspired by the movie. The contemporary Zorro inspired by his own great-great ancestor.
    They all work.
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-02-2018 at 03:59 AM.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Who truly owns the Night?

    Count Dracula or his literary offspring (via Sherlock Holmes and Zorro) the Batman?

    Who is more famous in real life?....


    Another significant literary ancestor, besides the already listed Sherlock Holmes, Dracula, Zorro, The Shadow... that I'd love to see crossover with Batman is Lee Falk's' The Phantom, who as far as I know also hasn't happened yet.

    The Phantom also at one point was incredibly famous, and obviously helped inspire Batman. He had a very popular comic strip series. Both launched their first movie serials about the same time. Phantom has since had movies, cartoons, and on-going comics.
    Yet today is nowhere near as popular as Batman.
    Strangely I think The Phantom has had a stronger ongoing public presence in the European zeitgeist, then in the country where he was created.


    Another subtle DC/WB nod to the Phantom as one of Batman's literary predecessors, was Batman Animated Series Gray Ghost character.

    While more obviously a visual and thematic nod to the Shadow.
    More subtle was the nod to Lee Falk's original Phantom.
    Which was originally an all black and white comic strips, before they switched to the color Sunday, he was conceived of and implicitly referred to as a gray costumed character.
    As well as called the "Ghost who Walks", one of his original names was the "Gray Ghost" (hence the homage in Batman Animated).



    http://www.deepwoods.org/trivia/purple_d26.gif
    http://www.deepwoods.org/trivia/purple_d31.gif


    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    ....More Famous IRL?
    Again not sure how kids see it today, or how you measure this, I don't think the Phantom will ever be as "famous" as Batman has become.
    Yet I don't separate them. To me the Phantom like those others listed Holmes, Dracula, Zorro, The Shadow, Batman just represents the current most recognizable modern synthesis of those.
    I don't separate or see Batman, without always recognizing and acknowledging those others.
    Last edited by Güicho; 08-29-2018 at 07:22 AM.

  10. #40
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    Batman would be overall more popular than the Phantom in certain parts of the world but I`m not sure the character is more popular in others. Phantom is/was big in Northen Europe, Australia, India and Latin America. In some of these countries his comic continues to be published with original stories (Scandinavia for instances).

    I would venture that Batman`s signal (the bat) is perhaps of faster recognization than the skull ring at this point. The lack of movies post `96 doesn`t help either.

    Oh and another nod is the oath. Bruce`s oath as a young boy to fight injustice is lifted from the Phantom`s.
    Last edited by Aioros22; 09-01-2018 at 03:33 AM.

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post
    Batman would be overall more popular than the Phantom in certain parts of the world but I`m not sure the character is more popular in others. Phantom is/was big in Northen Europe, Australia, India and Latin America. In some of these countries his comic continues to be published with original stories (Scandinavia for instances).

    I would venture that Batman`s signal (the bat) is perhaps of faster recognization than the skull ring at this point. The lack of movies post `96 doesn`t help either.

    Oh and another nod is the oath. Bruce`s oath as a young boy to fight injustice is lifted from the Phantom`s.
    .....


    Amongst other visual an thematic aspects, nice call with the classic "oath" being an inspiration, even revisited with Robin similarly passing down the legacy.
    As indicated the young Kane and Finger pulled from al the most popular sources of their time.

    It really is telling how much Falk's Phantom has contributed to the whole visual look and narrative of the Superhero genre, from the more obvious Batman, to more subtle influence on even Black Panther, to the Punisher, and more. Although some seem to want to deny it.
    While he has sadly become more and more obscure in the county of origin, The Phantom as you indicate has remained somewhat more in the public conscious in other countries, where the strip has continued in publication.

    Again as to how to measure who is more "popular" today, measuring box office, the incredible amount of cartoons, merchandise from comics, toys, games etc, sales that seems easy enough, it's beyond a doubt Batman.
    As to how you measure who is more "famous" today with kids it's Batman, yet I personally can never see or separate Batman, without always recognizing and acknowledging those others through him, so to me they are just as current and present, they always will be. .
    Quote Originally Posted by Aioros22 View Post

    I would venture that Batman`s signal (the bat) is perhaps of faster recognization than the skull ring at this point. ....
    Absolutely, on the other hand a bit OT, but speaking on the crossovers above, I'd love to see a villain created who bore the mark of Zorro "Z" scar, the "imprint" of the Phantoms skull-ring, and a the "branding" of the Bat, all in one!. LOL!
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-06-2018 at 01:26 PM.

  12. #42
    Amazing Member lauraP's Avatar
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    I think they're incomparable, but my vote goes to Batman. I just want GOOD to win
    Last edited by lauraP; 09-24-2018 at 11:14 AM.
    Hey! Wanna get A's for all that boring essays, then contact custom writer from Copycrafter and forget assignment stress.

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