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  1. #4291
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, I don't really see why they need to go full Multiverse. It isn't like there's some kind of film or franchise anniversary this movie is building on anyways that would justify it.

    The one thing the MCU films could've accomplished is building up his Rogues Gallery and they can't even do that right.
    I do think studio politics between Disney and Sony had something to do with that, so I can't blame Marvel Studios too much there.

  2. #4292
    Ultimate Member MindofShadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    To be fair, I do think Marvel has done a pretty good job of building up to the multiverse. They've been teasing it for YEARS now. And the Loki series finally set things in motion. So I appreciate Feige taking his time in getting here. But yeah, I don't remember reading Spider-Man being in any major multiverse stories (I was not a heavy reader of comics, but I DID like the Sinister Six story). I think your idea of Scorpion creating them could be very fun and entertaining. I think why I'm a bit down on the Spider-Man 3 is because I wasn't just a fan of the original Sony Spider-Man movies. Nostalgia? I prefer AMNESIA when it comes to them. I guess I'm sorta happy that Tobey and Andrew will be able to finish their character arcs on a high note? But Feige's involvement is keeping me interested. I DO think that people will be psyched for the Spider-Man/Daredevil meet-up (should it happen). It's sort of like seeing Iron Man, Captain America, Thor and the Hulk together on screen in live-action (in Avengers 1) for the first time (albeit on a smaller scale) I think.
    I literally hate the tobey films and even did in my youth when I first saw them and I like the first garfield one a little.

    So yeah, this nostalgia bait is the opposite for me lol.
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  3. #4293
    Ultimate Member Wiccan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I do think studio politics between Disney and Sony had something to do with that, so I can't blame Marvel Studios too much there.
    Yeah, I think the multiverse was the way they found of keeping Spider-Man in the MCU while still crossing over with the Venom/Morbius/etc Sonyverse.

  4. #4294
    MYTH SMITH ∞ !!! G. Boney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackClaw View Post
    Admittedly I wouldn’t mind it if this happens with T’Challa but with a different actor obviously. Assuming he gets killed off in BP2.
    My preference would be for them to simply recast.
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  5. #4295
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    I literally hate the tobey films and even did in my youth when I first saw them and I like the first garfield one a little.

    So yeah, this nostalgia bait is the opposite for me lol.
    I used to like the Tobey movies more back in the day. But I don't think they hold up today. I mean, the third one in the trilogy was pretty so I kinda liked that one. I couldn't stand the Andrew movies. I actually stopped watching superhero films for several years after watching them. And my love of Spider-Man was dramatically reduced as a result. What I didn't like in particular was the constant crying. Spider-Man cried a lot in those Sony movies. I was not happy Loki cried so much in his own series. I didn't mind Vision crying in WandaVision because that was paying tribute to a classic Avengers story. I don't like superheroes indulging in self-pity and self-doubt. That's why I love MCU Tony Stark and Nick Fury. They don't take no mess.

  6. #4296
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiccan View Post
    Yeah, I think the multiverse was the way they found of keeping Spider-Man in the MCU while still crossing over with the Venom/Morbius/etc Sonyverse.
    Could definitely cause some confusion in the future.

  7. #4297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I used to like the Tobey movies more back in the day. But I don't think they hold up today. I mean, the third one in the trilogy was pretty so I kinda liked that one. I couldn't stand the Andrew movies. I actually stopped watching superhero films for several years after watching them. And my love of Spider-Man was dramatically reduced as a result. What I didn't like in particular was the constant crying. Spider-Man cried a lot in those Sony movies. I was not happy Loki cried so much in his own series. I didn't mind Vision crying in WandaVision because that was paying tribute to a classic Avengers story. I don't like superheroes indulging in self-pity and self-doubt. That's why I love MCU Tony Stark and Nick Fury. They don't take no mess.
    What's wrong with self-doubt? Not every hero is some big macho man. And even Tony Stark doubted himself a lot.

  8. #4298
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    What's wrong with self-doubt? Not every hero is some big macho man. And even Tony Stark doubted himself a lot.
    No problem with self-doubt. But when Thor cried in Endgame I was laughing. The way Spider-Man cried in the Sony movies was just too much. Every now and then is fine. But they were leaking like faucets after a while, and I thought it was terribly overwrought. At least Black Panther had some dignity when he shed his tears. Just my opinion though.

  9. #4299
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    No problem with self-doubt. But when Thor cried in Endgame I was laughing. The way Spider-Man cried in the Sony movies was just too much. Every now and then is fine. But they were leaking like faucets after a while, and I thought it was terribly overwrought. At least Black Panther had some dignity when he shed his tears. Just my opinion though.
    Uh, there was nothing wrong with Thor crying. He felt responsible for failing everyone and became depressed. I think characters should show a wide range of emptions

    Maguire as Spider-Man cried a lot but IMO the problem was more Maguire's odd facial expressions.

  10. #4300
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    To be honest it was jarring to me if only because they didn't emphasize the consequences of this version of Thor as much as I felt they could have in favor of the comedy, but I guess they felt audiences needed a breather.
    I for one greatly enjoyed the return to comedy. I liked the darker episodes, but I've enjoyed the "fun" ones a lot more.

    Thor vs. Captain Marvel was fun.
    Arguably one of the best Thor fights in the MCU, I thought. He and Carol were punching each other across oceans, and that's the kind of power I expect from a Thor, and the MCU has rarely given me that.

    I guess I am also concerned that this is just doubling down on the dude bro characterization of Hemsworth's Thor.
    I think as long as Hemsworth is playing him, Thor's going to have a strong comedic bent to him now. Hemsworth is good at it, Ragnarok was the biggest Thor film yet, and they've still done more serious work with the character in Infinity War and, on certain levels, Endgame, which shows Thor still has some range and isn't "just" a comedy character. But I don't think we'll see a truly, properly (solely) Shakespearean Thor in the MCU again.

    My only issue is his mask being the most blatant moment of comic book winking I've ever seen where he brings his mask for seemingly no reason, puts it on for no reason, and then takes it off after five seconds.
    That annoyed the hell out of me. Why even bother, if he's only gonna randomly wear it for one random scene? I feel like Marvel is ashamed of Zemo; they want the name recognition but don't want to use the actual character. I feel like F&tWS inched Zemo a tiny bit closer to what he should be, and if he continues to show up, maybe each new appearance will do the same and we'll reach a "proper" Zemo before it's done. But Zemo is easily one of the worst villain adaptations in the MCU.

    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    It was eye rolling enough that he was randomly a baron and then the 5 second mask thing was.... a lot lol
    I mean, Civil War does such a poor job of exploring Zemo, I feel like his being a baron is viable. It fits around the scant details we have concerning his background in CW without contradicting anything. Royals in Britain serve in their military (though I don't believe they become death commandos) and being a royal helps explain where Zemo's resources came from (even high ranking soldiers don't usually have access to stuff like EMP's).

    Granted, it's a weird thing to omit in Civil War and you'd expect that someone would have mentioned it. But with Sokovia dead and gone, you can make allowances for it not being mentioned; his training was more important to the plot than the position he held in a nation that no longer exists. I guess. Think this is just one of those things where fans gotta just smile and nod and say "Okay Marvel" and ignore the obvious problems behind it all.
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  11. #4301
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Uh, there was nothing wrong with Thor crying. He felt responsible for failing everyone and became depressed. I think characters should show a wide range of emptions

    Maguire as Spider-Man cried a lot but IMO the problem was more Maguire's odd facial expressions.
    Oh, I didn't say it was wrong. I just thought Hemsworth was hilarious. He CLEARLY excels at comedy. I wasn't supposed to laugh but I did. I dunno man, I understand crying after Uncle Ben dying was appropriate. But didn't cry a lot afterwards? And as I recall so did Garfield? I just vaguely recall they were crying over a lot of nothing. But I could be misremembering.

  12. #4302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    Oh, I didn't say it was wrong. I just thought Hemsworth was hilarious. He CLEARLY excels at comedy. I wasn't supposed to laugh but I did. I dunno man, I understand crying after Uncle Ben dying was appropriate. But didn't cry a lot afterwards? And as I recall so did Garfield? I just vaguely recall they were crying over a lot of nothing. But I could be misremembering.
    I don't recall Garfield crying except when people he knew died. I didn't laugh at Thor while he was sad, though

  13. #4303
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    IMO, the reason for the changes in the characterizations of the the villains, is this need for the writers to make SYMPATHETIC villains. You can't do that with the older versions of, let's say, Baron Zemo, Task Master, Flag Smasher or Killmonger. Or even "Gorilla Man" (aka "M'Baku"). Heck, John Walker was portrayed sympathetically, even though he is supposed to be the antagonist in TF&TWS.

    As for Thor's portrayal in the MCU: yes, Shakespearean Thor is best, but it wasn't selling well to the general audience. Throw in some comedy into the mix, you hit box office gold. Ergo, that's the direction the Thor series will go for, for the time being.

  14. #4304
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    IMO, the reason for the changes in the characterizations of the the villains, is this need for the writers to make SYMPATHETIC villains. You can't do that with the older versions of, let's say, Baron Zemo, Task Master, Flag Smasher or Killmonger. Or even "Gorilla Man" (aka "M'Baku"). Heck, John Walker was portrayed sympathetically, even though he is supposed to be the antagonist in TF&TWS.

    As for Thor's portrayal in the MCU: yes, Shakespearean Thor is best, but it wasn't selling well to the general audience. Throw in some comedy into the mix, you hit box office gold. Ergo, that's the direction the Thor series will go for, for the time being.
    Eh, a lot of these 'sympathetic villains' aren't really done well. I don't need to cry for these villains to enjoy them or believe them. I think the older version of Zemo would've worked fine, because at least it's not 'superheroes should be accountable' as a villain motif. Villainizing good ideals doesn't really make me sympathize

    I think the problem with Shakespearean Thor is he can come off too odd. Like he doesn't feel as much.

  15. #4305
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't recall Garfield crying except when people he knew died. I didn't laugh at Thor while he was sad, though
    For ME, it looks like Hemsworth is actually laughing when he's crying. I dunno why I feel this way, but that's my impression of his acting. He's a naturally funny dude. I just vaguely remember Garfield crying and I was like dude, WHY?!
    Last edited by Albert1981; 09-25-2021 at 10:30 AM.

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