Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Drops Of Venus]

Jamie Foxx to Return as Electro in MCU's Spider-man 3
https://comicbook.com/movies/news/sp...-foxx-electro/

Ugh... this is what I feared after J.K. Simmons' return as JJJ. In addition to the spin-off movies like Venom and Morbius (which no one knows how they fit into MCU continuity and might end up becoming another Marvel Television situation), I really don't want Sony messing up the MCU's organization.

[Ascended]

The stuff like Venom and Morbius I consider full on alt reality. I guess Fiege might've consulted on Venom, or something, but I'm pretty sure the only character that's actually shared between the studios and exists within the MCU (at least right now?) is Parker.

I figure Fox is playing the MCU version of Electro, not the one from the Garfield films, sort of like Simmons' MCU JJJ isn't the same one from the Maguire movies.

Or something. Yeah, at this point it's kinda weird.

[gurkle]

A theory I've heard is that the "multiverse" concept, which seems to be the overarching theme for the MCU now that Thanos is gone, could allow them to pull from previous Marvel movies if they need to. If there are many different realities, then Fox and Sony and Marvel Television are just different realities with similar but not identical characters.

If they went that route then they wouldn't have to worry how anything fits into MCU continuity (which is pretty loose anyway).

I have no idea if this is actually what they're planning. I wouldn't mind if they did that; I know others wouldn't like it though.

[Sutekh]

A theory I've heard is that the "multiverse" concept, which seems to be the overarching theme for the MCU now that Thanos is gone, could allow them to pull from previous Marvel movies if they need to. If there are many different realities, then Fox and Sony and Marvel Television are just different realities with similar but not identical characters.

If they went that route then they wouldn't have to worry how anything fits into MCU continuity (which is pretty loose anyway).

I have no idea if this is actually what they're planning. I wouldn't mind if they did that; I know others wouldn't like it though.

It's certainly an option that they could do with this multiverse business.

Say that, for instance, Agents of SHIELD happened in a universe that had the events of the first Avengers movie, and even Age of Ultron, but not necessarily the same universe as went on to have Infinity War and Endgame, or that the Netflix shows happened in a universe that had some similarities (again, the first Avengers movie), but didn't have mass fish-oil Inhuman outbreaks (as in Agents of SHIELD) or a 'five year blip' (as in Infinity War).

[Drops Of Venus]

The stuff like Venom and Morbius I consider full on alt reality. I guess Fiege might've consulted on Venom, or something, but I'm pretty sure the only character that's actually shared between the studios and exists within the MCU (at least right now?) is Parker.

Back when Venom came out, I definitely think it was supposed to be nothing but an AU. But I think things changed when Disney and Sony had to renegotiate their deal. Disney got something out of the new deal, but Sony must have gotten something too. I remember reading some reports that one of the things they negotiated was that Sony would have more liberty to use MCU stuff on their spin-off universe, and that's exactly what happened with Morbius, since they put Michael Keaton's Vulture in the movie, a character that was undeniably a part of the MCU. That definitely raises some questions about how connected those productions will be to the MCU and how Kevin Feige will or will not respond to them.

I figure Fox is playing the MCU version of Electro, not the one from the Garfield films, sort of like Simmons' MCU JJJ isn't the same one from the Maguire movies.

He actually posted on Instagram his Electro wouldn't be blue this time around, so yeah, it's definitely possible they're doing another version of the character, which I think it's good. But the whole thing is still weird to me. They had literally said they wanted MCU Spider-Man to stand out from the previous movies, and that definitely showed with how different the two solo films were, using new villains and completely reimagining his supporting cast like MJ, May, Flash Thompson, Ned... So for them to cast the same actor to play the same villain from a movie that bombed so hard that it led to Sony seek Disney for help in rebooting Spider-Man is just..... a choice they made for some reason. Like, I get J.K. Simmons returning because his performance as JJJ was so iconic and beloved and the character himself only had a small cameo in the film. That was them throwing a bone to the fans. But you can't really claim Jamie Foxx returning as Electro is fanservice because, let's be real... how many fans actually wanted that? Charlie Cox returning as Daredevil would be fanservice, not this. I feel like Sony had one hell of an ace up their sleeve to get Marvel to agree with this.

[Ascended]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Vulture showing up in Morbius. Or showed up. Did that movie come out yet? Yeah, that does point towards the Sony films being in the MCU, or at least the multiverse of the MCU.

Honestly I feel like this is a slippery slope. Marvel struggles enough with the continuity of its films already and I don't have a ton of faith that they'd be able to successful juggle the continuity of their own films, Sony's films, and a multiverse where half the same events occur but others didn't, with actors from unrelated projects coming in to play new versions of old characters they already played.

I mean, stuff like AoS and the Defenders, their position in MCU continuity is academic; you can say they're part of the same earth or not and it doesn't really impact or change anything, and that gives Marvel wiggle room. If they start saying "Oh this was earth-ABC and that was earth Netflix and over there was earth-Sony and oh, don't forget earth-Sony-2!" then they're locking themselves in awfully tight....and they can't even make the base films line up properly.

I'm all for multiverse adventures, don't get me wrong, but I'm less sure about a multiverse where the continuity of all those different worlds is a legit consideration.

But whatever, Marvel's earned my trust so I'll trust them until they screw up.

[TheRay]

I would like to see more of Iron Man's parents in the MCU.

[Albert1981]

My biggest beef with the MCU actually has nothing to do with the characters and/or the stories. Not even with the actors, actresses and directors. My problem is that the MUSIC of the MCU is just so bland. The MCU is now the biggest movie (and soon to be television) franchise in the world, and yet the scores and soundtracks have thus far been truly uninspiring. I get there are a lot of movies to write music for, but I just feel the scores and soundtracks are really inconsistent. They change from film to film. And I have a HUGE pet peeve of using pop songs from OTHER movies in the MCU. That is so UNORIGINAL. I don't even know if Iron Man, Captain America or the Hulk have themes devoted to them. And there is a real heavy reliance on synthesizers and electronic music in the pictures. I LOVE synth pop and electronic music myself, but the scores have been strangely soulless in my opinion thus far. And that's really disappointing considering the amount of musical talent the MCU composers have combined. I know it's not a pressing issue for Marvel Studios because their products have done so well, but I just think better music would elevate and enhance their movies and shows. Some emotional scenes could be even more powerful with better music. And Disney shouldn't be cheap. Hire more full orchestras and professional musicians to work on their projects. I guarantee it WILL serve them very well. But that's just my opinion. I doubt anybody in the CBR community really gives a **** about MCU music. LOL!

[chicago_bastard]

@Albert1981

I disagree. While your assertion may be correct for the first years of the franchise, the MCU scores clearly improved in recent years.

Ludwig Goransson's score for Black Panther is a perfect fit for the topic of Afrofuturism, Michael Giacchino's lighthearted tunes work well for the juvenile Spider-Man movies. And especially Alan Silvestri's Avengers scores are great. In Endgame he incorporated many themes and motifs from earlier movies, his style is just more subtle than that of composers like John Williams who by the way overdoes his Wagnerian leitmotifs quite a bit.

To give you an example: After Tony's sacrifice the same motif is played as when he flew the nuke through the wormhole in the battle of New York, thus giving us a connection between the two times he was ready to sacrifice himself. Or when Natasha died we hear the same motif that was played in the first Avengers movie during her dialogue with Loki when she talked about the red in her ledger, coming full circle with her finally having wiped it out. As I said it's rather subtle and surely doesn't appeal to the casual moviegoer like Williams going full Ride of the Valkyries every time Darth Vader shows up but that doesn't make it bad, quite the contrary.

Cap's theme is pretty memorable by the way, surprised you don't remember it. But then again it only appeared in the first movie and was ignored in the sequels only for Silvestri to bring it back in Endgame. So yeah, at the start of the MCU they made some poor choices (replacing Silvestri for the second Avengers movie being one of them) but it has clearly changed for the better.

[Albert1981]

@Albert1981

I disagree. While your assertion may be correct for the first years of the franchise, the MCU scores clearly improved in recent years.

Ludwig Goransson's score for Black Panther is a perfect fit for the topic of Afrofuturism, Michael Giacchino's lighthearted tunes work well for the juvenile Spider-Man movies. And especially Alan Silvestri's Avengers scores are great. In Endgame he incorporated many themes and motifs from earlier movies, his style is just more subtle than that of composers like John Williams who by the way overdoes his Wagnerian leitmotifs quite a bit.

To give you an example: After Tony's sacrifice the same motif is played as when he flew the nuke through the wormhole in the battle of New York, thus giving us a connection between the two times he was ready to sacrifice himself. Or when Natasha died we hear the same motif that was played in the first Avengers movie during her dialogue with Loki when she talked about the red in her ledger, coming full circle with her finally having wiped it out. As I said it's rather subtle and surely doesn't appeal to the casual moviegoer like Williams going full Ride of the Valkyries every time Darth Vader shows up but that doesn't make it bad, quite the contrary.

Cap's theme is pretty memorable by the way, surprised you don't remember it. But then again it only appeared in the first movie and was ignored in the sequels only for Silvestri to bring it back in Endgame. So yeah, at the start of the MCU they made some poor choices (replacing Silvestri for the second Avengers movie being one of them) but it has clearly changed for the better.

Can't believe I forgot about Cap's theme. It only lasted for that first film, so that's probably why I didn't remember it. That was a good theme, I agree. But the MCU should have stuck to that theme in future Cap movies. I just got so confused with his music mixing it up with the later Avengers films. I concur that Silvestri did a great job with the later Avengers movies. There was definitely a marked improvement there. They should have used him for more movies, that's for sure. But for some reason, the other music you mentioned just went in one of my ears and out the other. It didn't stick in my brain like the songs from Jurassic Park and the Lord of the Rings did. But maybe I'm in the minority here. I just want the songs to be more memorable. But you're right, the subtlety of the tracks might have been lost on me. Other composers like Williams and Zimmer are a little more "in your face and ears" and perhaps that's why I can recall them. Thanks for the input.

[Drops Of Venus]

Well, if there was any doubt Spider-Man 3 would be affected by the multiverse before....

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ange-exclusive

I can't help but feel like plans for this movie changed, 'cause I don't get the impression it was going to be this big before, honestly. I get the feeling that between WandaVision and Doctor Strange ITMOM being developed, they got ambitious and decided to expand the multiverse to include other projects as well. I imagine the basic premise of the film will still be the same: Peter has to run away from the authorities and villains while proving his innocence, but now we're probably getting a lot more supernatural stuff thrown in there. I can already imagine a classic villain chasing hero scene, but with dimension/universe hopping instead.

I also wonder how much Sam Raimi will be involved with this, since he is the guy in charge of Strange now. Will he have any say on how he's used on Spider-Man? And would he be interested in returning the favor and having Spidey guest on DS2? Both movies could certainly gain a lot from the hype of having Raimi involved with Spider-Man after all these years.

[Ascended]

Holland has one more solo film and....two?....guest appearances left in his contract right?

I could see him popping up in Strange 2, especially with Raimi behind the camera, and then doing some big Avengers style team up movie to finish things off.

And I'm sure Disney would like to stack the deck in their favor as much as possible too; the first Strange just did average by MCU standards right? Having Spidey in the sequel, especially with Raimi involved, might help get some more asses in theater seats and there's no doubt Disney wants as much box office as they can hustle, given the chaos 2020 has wrought.

But with Strange involved in Spidey 3, I feel like we can definitely forget about the friendly *neighborhood* Spider-Man and Parker's blue collar appeal. I mean, that's never really been a factor in the MCU films, between interning for Stark and fighting over a giant weaponized AI satellite, but it seems this aspect is most definitely off the table.

[Frontier]

Well, if there was any doubt Spider-Man 3 would be affected by the multiverse before....

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ange-exclusive

I can't help but feel like plans for this movie changed, 'cause I don't get the impression it was going to be this big before, honestly. I get the feeling that between WandaVision and Doctor Strange ITMOM being developed, they got ambitious and decided to expand the multiverse to include other projects as well. I imagine the basic premise of the film will still be the same: Peter has to run away from the authorities and villains while proving his innocence, but now we're probably getting a lot more supernatural stuff thrown in there. I can already imagine a classic villain chasing hero scene, but with dimension/universe hopping instead.

I also wonder how much Sam Raimi will be involved with this, since he is the guy in charge of Strange now. Will he have any say on how he's used on Spider-Man? And would he be interested in returning the favor and having Spidey guest on DS2? Both movies could certainly gain a lot from the hype of having Raimi involved with Spider-Man after all these years.

I know people are jumping at the Multiverse but I assume Peter just goes to Strange for help restoring his secret identity. His role isn't necessarily going to be any more involved than his appearance in Ragnarok.

But with Strange involved in Spidey 3, I feel like we can definitely forget about the friendly *neighborhood* Spider-Man and Parker's blue collar appeal. I mean, that's never really been a factor in the MCU films, between interning for Stark and fighting over a giant weaponized AI satellite, but it seems this aspect is most definitely off the table.

Ant-Man seems more down-to-Earth than MCU Spider-Man by comparison.

[Drops Of Venus]

I know people are jumping at the Multiverse but I assume Peter just goes to Strange for help restoring his secret identity. His role isn't necessarily going to be any more involved than his appearance in Ragnarok.

Well, unless they are just assuming this and not talking out of specific knowledge about the scoop, The Hollywood Reporter actually says he will have the same mentor role Robert Downey Jr. and Samuel L. Jackson had in the previous two Spider-Man films. That implies his role might be more than just a cameo a la Ragnarok.

[Witchfan]

Natalie Portman Seems to Reveal Her Marvel Character Has Cancer in Thor: Love and Thunder
https://thedirect.com/article/thor-l...-foster-marvel