Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Hybrid]

To be fair, I wouldn’t say featuring the X-Men in the background to Wolverine is “covering” them. He probably means to use more of the wide lore and characters that Fox did badly.

[Force de Phenix]

Probably not for a decade or two. Enough time needs to pass for people to forget the Fox series which as yet they haven't. In the interim there needs to be a new crop of X-Men movies to reintroduce to the audiences what made them classic and special to start with. Kevin Feige said that when they do X-Men they will try and foreground obscure and underexposed characters. The problem is that Fox actually did cover a huge swathe of mutants across all eras. They even did Teenage Negasonic Warhead.

My advice would be to focus on Rogue and Gambit. Rogue was de-emphasized after the first 2 X-Men movies. And they never really introduced Gambit. Bring in Storm and so on, and have them face off Mr. Sinister and the Marauders. That would be a change of pace. Then bring in Kitty (barely in the Fox movies), Emma Frost (just one movie and not the Mean Girl Loves Prada X-Woman we all love to hate or hate to love)

The other problem is that they have to recast Wolverine after Hugh Jackman owned that role. That's as big a problem on their plate as replacing RDJ and Chris Evans. Wolverine is the biggest X-Men and eventually people will want that hairy runt, so they are gonna have to recast him. The easiest thing would be to keep Michael Fassbender as Magneto. Magneto is a character with some flexibility in that he can be young and old and Fassbender hasn't aged out yet. He was highly well-received as a successor to Ian McKellen and keeping an actor from an old series in a new continuity is a good idea. As for Xavier, you can keep McAvoy or recast him, my feeling is they should try and de-emphasize Xavier for a bit.



One way to do it is by adapting Secret Wars, in order to show how insane and crazy timelines are in Battleworld under God Doom you show the X-Men battling the Avengers, only it turns out it's the Fox X-Men including Jackman Wolverine fighting the Whedon Avengers crew. Do that there in one quick sequence of fanservice and that's it, they don't have to touch the series.

What audiences would want is the Fox X-Men or rather an X-Men led by Jackman's Wolverine and maybe McKellen's Magneto versus the Whedon Avengers...not X-Men with unfamiliar actors with Avenges with unfamiliar actors.

Feige doesn't allow anything from Marvel TV in his films. I doubt he'll even allow a second of the failed franchise that everyone hates except for fanboys.

[rpmaluki]

TV Jarvis made it into Endgame but that's probably due to the role being very, very, very small.

[Force de Phenix]

TV Jarvis made it into Endgame but that's probably due to the role being very, very, very small.

True, but Peggy was in the MCU before making it to ABC.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I doubt he'll even allow a second of the failed franchise that everyone hates except for fanboys.

Calling the Fox X-Men series a failed franchise is a huge stretch. This isn't like the Fantastic Four or the Amazing Series. There have been excellent films in the Fox X-Men film series -- X2, X-Men First Class, Days of Future Past, Deadpool 2, one great film -- Deadpool 1, and one masterpiece -- Logan.

Logan in fact was cited by Feige and others as an influence for Endgame and for the upcoming Black Widow. Only people who are fanboys would call that a "failed franchise". And besides Kevin Feige worked on the early X-Men films as a producer. He cut his teeth at Fox working on the X-Men and Daredevil (yeah, Feige was involved in the Affleck Daredevil movie) before he worked at MCU.

The Fox X-men series however is highly uneven. So along with movies you can think of as being good, you have outright clunkers and bad movies -- Last Stand, Origins Wolverine, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix.

And in any case, the Fox movies did do defining takes on some characters.
-- Their Quicksilver was better than the one Whedon whacked.
-- Magneto whether played by Ian McKellen or Fassbender is among the classiest villains you will ever come across. And indeed cited by both Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan as their influence for Killmonger.
-- Patrick Stewart IS Professor X (James McAvoy less so but he's still good).

and of course, Hugh Jackman's Wolverine which is a defining portrayal of any Marvel character.

[Hybrid]

TV Jarvis made it into Endgame but that's probably due to the role being very, very, very small.

Actually, Agent Carter was the only Marvel TV show Feige had any involvement with.

[Force de Phenix]

Calling the Fox X-Men series a failed franchise is a huge stretch. This isn't like the Fantastic Four or the Amazing Series. There have been excellent films in the Fox X-Men film series -- X2, X-Men First Class, Days of Future Past, Deadpool 2, one great film -- Deadpool 1, and one masterpiece -- Logan.

Logan in fact was cited by Feige and others as an influence for Endgame and for the upcoming Black Widow. Only people who are fanboys would call that a "failed franchise". And besides Kevin Feige worked on the early X-Men films as a producer. He cut his teeth at Fox working on the X-Men and Daredevil (yeah, Feige was involved in the Affleck Daredevil movie) before he worked at MCU.

The Fox X-men series however is highly uneven. So along with movies you can think of as being good, you have outright clunkers and bad movies -- Last Stand, Origins Wolverine, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix.

And in any case, the Fox movies did do defining takes on some characters.
-- Their Quicksilver was better than the one Whedon whacked.
-- Magneto whether played by Ian McKellen or Fassbender is among the classiest villains you will ever come across. And indeed cited by both Ryan Coogler and Michael B. Jordan as their influence for Killmonger.
-- Patrick Stewart IS Professor X (James McAvoy less so but he's still good).

and of course, Hugh Jackman's Wolverine which is a defining portrayal of any Marvel character.

Logan was good because it separated itself from the franchise. The actors who did Magneto were good. Deadpool isn't a part of the mess that went on. And they failed the Phoenix storyline so badly that Disney's probably not gonna touch it.

The actual X-Men movies were so weak that X-Men fans have been campaigning vociferously for their rights to return to Disney Studios for years. If it weren't failing, no one would have begged for them to escape from Fox.

Fox's Quicksilver was terrible. He was practically the Flash with teenage angst, and was reduced to fanservice and a gimmick.

[Hybrid]

Yeah, I agree Fox really failed the X-Men as a brand. It's telling how almost everyone celebrated the X-Men returning to Marvel, and the ones who were against it likely hated the X-Men. I think we're all looking forward to seeing more characters with more even dispersal of focus, more aspects of the wide lore, and more of the fantastical comic book elements that Fox openly despised, on top of the crossovers we'll see.

Plus, Logan was good specifically for not being tied to the mainline movies. It was so good, in fact, that continuing afterwards felt redundant. It was closure. Dark Phoenix was completely unneeded.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Logan was good because it separated itself from the franchise.

How could it separate itself from the franchise when it had the two big actors of the trilogy -- Jackman, Stewart? LOGAN may not be part of the continuity, but that continuity in Days of Future Past created branching timelines and altered futures which ret-conned and removed movies like Last Stand and so on. So it's very much in the same franchise.

And they failed the Phoenix storyline so badly that Disney's probably not gonna touch it.

Given X-Men Red showed that Jean Grey no longer has to be defined by being the arm candy that Scott and Logan fight for, or have to die for Scott's manpain or for him to shack up with Emma Frost...it might be a good thing to stay clear of the Phoenix stuff for a while.

The actual X-Men movies were so weak that X-Men fans have been campaigning vociferously for their rights to return to Disney Studios for years.

The main reason X-Men fans wanted the rights back is that Marvel Comics start treating it with real respect again rather than breaking the ballerina's leg with a crowbar in favor of Avengers and Inhumans. The anger was largely towards Disney/Marvel for what Quesada called a "moratorium" on expanding that corner.

Quite a few fans were ambivalent about the merger, following the lead of James Mangold director of LOGAN who pointed out that Disney would never allow a movie like Logan to be made since a R-Rated movie is not as easy to merchandise.

Fox's Quicksilver was terrible.

Still seen as better than MCU's.

[Force de Phenix]

How could it separate itself from the franchise when it had the two big actors of the trilogy -- Jackman, Stewart? LOGAN may not be part of the continuity, but that continuity in Days of Future Past created branching timelines and altered futures which ret-conned and removed movies like Last Stand and so on. So it's very much in the same franchise.



Given X-Men Red showed that Jean Grey no longer has to be defined by being the arm candy that Scott and Logan fight for, or have to die for Scott's manpain or for him to shack up with Emma Frost...it might be a good thing to stay clear of the Phoenix stuff for a while.



The main reason X-Men fans wanted the rights back is that Marvel Comics start treating it with real respect again rather than breaking the ballerina's leg with a crowbar in favor of Avengers and Inhumans. The anger was largely towards Disney/Marvel for what Quesada called a "moratorium" on expanding that corner.

Quite a few fans were ambivalent about the merger, following the lead of James Mangold director of LOGAN who pointed out that Disney would never allow a movie like Logan to be made since a R-Rated movie is not as easy to merchandise.

Still seen as better than MCU's.

Logan was in another universe and stood by itself. The other X-Men didn't appear for a reason.

Jean Grey as the Phoenix represented one of the weakest members of the team becoming the most powerful and showing that powers corrupt, but that we can take responsibility. It really had little to do with Scott or Logan and was all Jean. That story deserves respect that Fox denied.

Quesada killed them in E for Extinction before the first ever X-Men movie came out and House of M was also before Disney bought Marvel. It didn't anything to do with the Avengers or the inhumans. They repopulated the Earth with the mutants at the end of AVX before Infinity/Inhumanity.

A lot of people liked post AVX because Scott was taking a stand against humankind, like Hickman is doing now.

MCU Pietro is closer to what he is in the comics: arrogant, fast, but not "time-freezing", and he actually played a bigger role. Fox's was there just to sell that one scene over and over again, and im Dark Phoenix he was completely useless and forgotten.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Logan was in another universe and stood by itself. The other X-Men didn't appear for a reason.

Nonetheless it's part of the Fox X-Men series. Deal with it. It was made with Fox money and the MCU could never have done it. It says something that the most faithful and authentic take on Wolverine, complete with the violence of the claws, all those head-choppings and disemboweling and so on, will never be made by the MCU.

That story deserves respect that Fox denied.

The MCU alters and changes stuff in comics as it is. Like Infinity Gauntlet isn't faithfully adapted in the movies, only key moments and images. And in any case, things have changed in comics...Jean Grey has died and come back many times, the Phoenix is now established as something that doesn't have to be fixed to Jean forever. Jean in fact is no longer bonded with the Phoenix right now.

As it is The Dark Phoenix Saga only ended that way because of accident and writer-EIC disagreements and compromise. Claremont didn't want to make Jean Grey a permanent villain which is what Shooter wanted, Shooter didn't want Jean to go back to being a hero after killing a planet which is what Claremont wanted.

So there was never a real need for Jean Grey to die in that story. So there's no real need to do things that way.

A lot of people liked post AVX because Scott was taking a stand against humankind, like Hickman is doing now.

Hickman also made it clear that HOX/POX and DOX would not have been possible if the rights issues hadn't resolved allowing him to go all-in and bring the X-Men back to their prominent place as he has said multiple times.

[Force de Phenix]

Nonetheless it's part of the Fox X-Men series. Deal with it. It was made with Fox money and the MCU could never have done it. It says something that the most faithful and authentic take on Wolverine, complete with the violence of the claws, all those head-choppings and disemboweling and so on, will never be made by the MCU.



The MCU alters and changes stuff in comics as it is. Like Infinity Gauntlet isn't faithfully adapted in the movies, only key moments and images. And in any case, things have changed in comics...Jean Grey has died and come back many times, the Phoenix is now established as something that doesn't have to be fixed to Jean forever. Jean in fact is no longer bonded with the Phoenix right now.

As it is The Dark Phoenix Saga only ended that way because of accident and writer-EIC disagreements and compromise. Claremont didn't want to make Jean Grey a permanent villain which is what Shooter wanted, Shooter didn't want Jean to go back to being a hero after killing a planet which is what Claremont wanted.

So there was never a real need for Jean Grey to die in that story. So there's no real need to do things that way.



Hickman also made it clear that HOX/POX and DOX would not have been possible if the rights issues hadn't resolved allowing him to go all-in and bring the X-Men back to their prominent place as he has said multiple times.

The only films that were any good are the ones that stay cleared from team X-Men films, or rather "Mystique and the X-Men". I actually didn't mind The Wolverine.

I'm too much of a Phoenix fan to think that the changes in X3 and DP were justified or any good. I understand why they are considered the worst films in both generations of X-films. Infinity War and Endgame captured the essence, and so did Civil War. There was too much Mystique and Magneto, and not enough anything else.

I don't get what that has to do with people liking the X-Men these past years. They had, or were included, in major events and new comics these past years except for Secret Wars which was more Fantastic Four centered. If people didn't like it, it's because they like to complain. I get X-Men fanboys want the Avengers to go away, and have the X-Men replace them, and it's ironic.

[Frontier]

One way to do it is by adapting Secret Wars, in order to show how insane and crazy timelines are in Battleworld under God Doom you show the X-Men battling the Avengers, only it turns out it's the Fox X-Men including Jackman Wolverine fighting the Whedon Avengers crew. Do that there in one quick sequence of fanservice and that's it, they don't have to touch the series.

What audiences would want is the Fox X-Men or rather an X-Men led by Jackman's Wolverine and maybe McKellen's Magneto versus the Whedon Avengers...not X-Men with unfamiliar actors with Avenges with unfamiliar actors.

I don't see them touching the Fox X-Men beyond maybe a nod or two. I think the main impetus moving forward is starting fresh.

[Hybrid]

Do you guys think Doctor Doom could work well as the next big MCU villain after Thanos?

[Frontier]

Do you guys think Doctor Doom could work well as the next big MCU villain after Thanos?

I think he definitely has the potential for it, but a lot of villains do.