Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[CosmiComic]

Nothing is canon or non-canon unless the studio outright says it or shows it in the movie/show.

[Ascended]

I've never understood the determination of some fans to retcon AGENTS OF S.H.I.E.L.D when its not hard to keep the series relevant

I honestly think a lot of it just comes down to people not liking AoS (whether they actually watched it or not) and looking for any excuse to jettison it from the MCU. Like that regular network show was some insult that didn't deserve to be counted as part of the big budget films. Same with the Netflix stuff. Plenty of things crossed over between all those shows, but because the films were (very) low key about it, fans like to try and put a wedge in there. Always seemed odd to me, the hoops they would jump through to "prove" AoS wasn't happening in the same continuity.

But all that said, now that Disney has their own streaming service I think AoS and all the other shows that weren't produced by Fiege have been discarded. They cast Ali as Blade even though he was in Luke Cage, which goes against their old rule of actors only playing one MCU role (though Gemma Chan, I think, is breaking that already by being in Captain Marvel and Eternals), and this thing with the Darkhold is just more proof that, while the tv stuff *was* part of the MCU at one point, the Studio doesn't feel beholden to any of it in a post-Disney+ world.

Personally, I'm not overly bothered by the shows being thrown out. The shows were connected, but the connection wasn't what Marvel advertised. I think in their heads (and our's) they wanted something like the new D+ shows, but what they got was something produced by a completely different set of people, actor contracts that got in the way of crossovers, logistical problems lining things up, and Fiege had little or no control over the direction ABC and Netflix took the IP's. Those shows are still good. AoS wasn't fun simply because it was tied to the MCU, Daredevil wasn't a great show because it mentioned the battle of New York, and Iron Fist would've been a disappointment with or without the MCU. Whether the shows are officially MCU canon anymore or not doesn't change my enjoyment of them.

[CosmiComic]

I honestly think a lot of it just comes down to people not liking AoS (whether they actually watched it or not) and looking for any excuse to jettison it from the MCU. Like that regular network show was some insult that didn't deserve to be counted as part of the big budget films. Same with the Netflix stuff. Plenty of things crossed over between all those shows, but because the films were (very) low key about it, fans like to try and put a wedge in there. Always seemed odd to me, the hoops they would jump through to "prove" AoS wasn't happening in the same continuity.

But all that said, now that Disney has their own streaming service I think AoS and all the other shows that weren't produced by Fiege have been discarded. They cast Ali as Blade even though he was in Luke Cage, which goes against their old rule of actors only playing one MCU role (though Gemma Chan, I think, is breaking that already by being in Captain Marvel and Eternals), and this thing with the Darkhold is just more proof that, while the tv stuff *was* part of the MCU at one point, the Studio doesn't feel beholden to any of it in a post-Disney+ world.

Personally, I'm not overly bothered by the shows being thrown out. The shows were connected, but the connection wasn't what Marvel advertised. I think in their heads (and our's) they wanted something like the new D+ shows, but what they got was something produced by a completely different set of people, actor contracts that got in the way of crossovers, logistical problems lining things up, and Fiege had little or no control over the direction ABC and Netflix took the IP's. Those shows are still good. AoS wasn't fun simply because it was tied to the MCU, Daredevil wasn't a great show because it mentioned the battle of New York, and Iron Fist would've been a disappointment with or without the MCU. Whether the shows are officially MCU canon anymore or not doesn't change my enjoyment of them.

Wasn't Ali's character minor, though? And didn't he die?

I feel the problem sometimes with dumping all those characters is, they're part of Marvel Comics (except for most of AoS) and many would like to see them interact with Spidey, Iron man and so forth. However, decanonizing doesn't preclude those characters returning in some way, and if news about NWH is true, Daredevil is coming (although after WandaVision I don't put my trust into anything unless it's 100% confirmed!)

[Ascended]

Ali played Cottonmouth, the first major villain in Luke Cage, and was killed, I dunno, halfway, 2/3rds of the way through season 1. So not a minor character, but not exactly a huge one either.

And there's no doubt that Disney/Marvel will use Daredevil, Luke, Ghost Rider, and the other characters Netflix and ABC had control of, just like there's no doubt Disney is gonna use the FF and mutants, now that they're home from Fox. It's just a matter of whether Disney will keep the actors and/or the character history from those previous shows/films. I don't see it happening, personally. I think Disney will start from scratch with new actors. It's a shame, since most of those actors were perfect in their roles, but it is what it is.

[CosmiComic]

Ali played Cottonmouth, the first major villain in Luke Cage, and was killed, I dunno, halfway, 2/3rds of the way through season 1. So not a minor character, but not exactly a huge one either.

And there's no doubt that Disney/Marvel will use Daredevil, Luke, Ghost Rider, and the other characters Netflix and ABC had control of, just like there's no doubt Disney is gonna use the FF and mutants, now that they're home from Fox. It's just a matter of whether Disney will keep the actors and/or the character history from those previous shows/films. I don't see it happening, personally. I think Disney will start from scratch with new actors. It's a shame, since most of those actors were perfect in their roles, but it is what it is.

If they bring back Cox, they could bring back the other actors. They were hired by Marvel, unlike the FF and X-Men actors

[mace11]

This was posted before.

Anyway if the mcu past shows were canon because of ike,then they are not canon anymore have not been since kevin got his independence and more so now that kevin is in charge of the tv side of marvel.
I will post links about this below.

DO YOU STILL CONSIDER THE TV SHOWS CANON
https://forums.superherohype.com/thr...-canon.554107/
THREAD: MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE DISCUSSION PART II
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...Part-II/page70
and
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...Part-II/page71
and
https://community.cbr.com/showthread...Part-II/page81

KEVIN FEIGE ADDS MARVEL CHIEF CREATIVE OFFICER TITLE; HE’LL OVERSEE ALL CREATIVE & STORY INITIATIVES

https://forums.superherohype.com/thr...552676/page-10

[mace11]

DOES EVERYTHING HAVE TO BE CONNECTED ALWAYS
https://forums.superherohype.com/thr...always.552933/

https://forums.superherohype.com/thr...s-back.555189/

[CosmiComic]

I can't say for sure how much of Daredevil's show will remain if he's in NWH.

[mace11]

If charlie cox comes to the canon mcu he will be a rebooted character.
Just like what they did with james jonah jameson.
It will be the same thing with jessica jones or any other character in marvel tv under jeph loeb.

[CosmiComic]

If charlie cox comes to the canon mcu he will be a rebooted character.
Just like what they did with james jonah jameson.
It will be the same thing with jessica jones or any other character in marvel tv under jeph loeb.

Seems likely, but after WandaVision, I'm going to be cautious about speculating

[BlackClaw]

If charlie cox comes to the canon mcu he will be a rebooted character.
Just like what they did with james jonah jameson.
It will be the same thing with jessica jones or any other character in marvel tv under jeph loeb.

How much you willing to bet that Iron Fist is the only defender that they’ll recast? But joking aside, I wonder if this means that they’ll recast Robbie Reyes with a younger actor so that he can be a teen like he is in the comics.

[CosmiComic]

I'm curious. What confirmed projects are you most or least anticipating in the MCU?

For me I'm most excited about Love and Thunder, Multiverse of Madness, and Legend of the Ten Rings. I'm least excited about Hawkeye, and have no interest in F4. What's everyone else's thoughts?

[Drops Of Venus]

Personally, I'm not overly bothered by the shows being thrown out. The shows were connected, but the connection wasn't what Marvel advertised. I think in their heads (and our's) they wanted something like the new D+ shows, but what they got was something produced by a completely different set of people, actor contracts that got in the way of crossovers, logistical problems lining things up, and Fiege had little or no control over the direction ABC and Netflix took the IP's. Those shows are still good. AoS wasn't fun simply because it was tied to the MCU, Daredevil wasn't a great show because it mentioned the battle of New York, and Iron Fist would've been a disappointment with or without the MCU. Whether the shows are officially MCU canon anymore or not doesn't change my enjoyment of them.

That's where I'm at right now. I used to be the one of those people who would fight tooth and nail to defend the existence of Marvel TV within MCU, but at this point I just don't care anymore. Kevin Feige recently literally compared the Marvel TV shows to the FOX/Sony movies that he couldn't control, so I think that's a pretty good indication of how he feels about those properties. If it's not something he genuinely wants to continue, then I don't think he should be forced to. We've all seen what studio interference can do to a franchise, so.... I don't want that for the MCU. They should do what they feel like it's the best thing for the world they've created.

How much you willing to bet that Iron Fist is the only defender that they’ll recast? But joking aside, I wonder if this means that they’ll recast Robbie Reyes with a younger actor so that he can be a teen like he is in the comics.

I feel really bad for Gabriel Luna, but it's what they should do. That casting for Robbie was just wrong. There was no reason to cast a man in his 30s to play the character. And now that he's pushing 40.... it just doesn't work for the character. It's pretty clear to me the show just wanted a Johnny Blaze type of character but was probably not allowed to use him, so they decided to age up Robbie to tell a story that would've obviously fit an older Ghost Rider a lot more. And now that I suspect Marvel will go with Johnny/Danny for the ''real'' MCU, that just makes AOS's Robbie even more redundant. If we ever see Robbie again, he should be a teenager like in the comics.

[CosmiComic]

That's where I'm at right now. I used to be the one of those people who would fight tooth and nail to defend the existence of Marvel TV within MCU, but at this point I just don't care anymore. Kevin Feige recently literally compared the Marvel TV shows to the FOX/Sony movies that he couldn't control, so I think that's a pretty good indication of how he feels about those properties. If it's not something he genuinely wants to continue, then I don't think he should be forced to. We've all seen what studio interference can do to a franchise, so.... I don't want that for the MCU. They should do what they feel like it's the best thing for the world they've created.



I feel really bad for Gabriel Luna, but it's what they should do. That casting for Robbie was just wrong. There was no reason to cast a man in his 30s to play the character. And now that he's pushing 40.... it just doesn't work for the character. It's pretty clear to me the show just wanted a Johnny Blaze type of character but were probably not allowed to use him, so they decided to age up Robbie to tell a story that would've obviously fit an older Ghost Rider a lot more. And now that I suspect the MCU will go with Johnny/Danny for the ''real'' MCU, that just makes AOS's Robbie even more redundant. If we ever see Robbie again, he should be a teenager like in the comics.

Couldn't he play Blaze or Ketch?

[Sutekh]

How much you willing to bet that Iron Fist is the only defender that they’ll recast? But joking aside,

I wouldn't even mean that as a joke. I thought the other three Netflix Defenders were excellent, with Cox really owning the role, in particular.