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  1. #3331
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I thought they were just friends in the present day, they dated in the past but they were just friends now.
    That's exactly how it was, but I think Stephen still carried a torch for her (it just wasn't mutual).
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I guess that's possible, but by that point I was just tired of cliche Hollywood romances and I didn't find it believable
    I think for the role it served in the film it made sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I like the actress enough to appreciate her presence and the backstory, but

    I guess I don't see where she fits in with # 2, unless there is something new or revealed about her character.
    If the plot concerns multi-universal events, maybe her or a variant is explored in that context. A 'verse where Doc doesn't become a Wizard might have them married or still involved.
    Otherwise I think it could be a different setup or reveal ( Someone else from Dormmammu's dimension who always knew he would be come a sorcerer?)
    Either that or Strange visits her before all the multiverse shenanigans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Really? I don't think it's impossible for two people of the opposite sex to never have a romantic connection.

    But maybe I'd buy it if I thought they actually looked like a couple. But the MCU isn't great at romance IMO
    Well, the point was they weren't a couple anymore by the time of the movie.

  2. #3332
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's exactly how it was, but I think Stephen still carried a torch for her (it just wasn't mutual).

    I think for the role it served in the film it made sense.

    Either that or Strange visits her before all the multiverse shenanigans.

    Well, the point was they weren't a couple anymore by the time of the movie.
    Yeah, but they didn't seem believable as an ex-couple either. At least to me, that is. I guess I just got annoyed with it because it seemed cliche

  3. #3333
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, but they didn't seem believable as an ex-couple either. At least to me, that is. I guess I just got annoyed with it because it seemed cliche
    Really? I immediately got that sense from their interaction. But to each their own .

  4. #3334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Really? I immediately got that sense from their interaction. But to each their own .
    I sensed that's what they were going for, but mostly they just looked like two colleagues.

  5. #3335
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I sensed that's what they were going for, but mostly they just looked like two colleagues.
    Well, they were that too .

  6. #3336
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, they were that too .
    Maybe it was just me. But it seemed more tell, less show

  7. #3337
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    No movie is going to do great in this environment. I am not sure why you are having a hard time grasping that.
    I agree no movie is gonna do great for a while. Maybe for the rest of 2021. So you won't get any argument from my end there. I like the Fast & Furious franchise. The ones I've seen with the Rock and Statham were great. I just felt whatever the circumstances (pandemic or not), F9 would struggle. In regards to Black Widow, I was just surprised that Space Jam: A New Legacy overtook it in week two. Natasha's movie had FAR more positive and glowing reviews than Space Jam. I mean the reviews for the new Space Jam movie were absolutely atrocious. So I thought Black Widow would have held on a little bit longer (because the competition was so weak). Maybe Space Jam 2 is a better film than has been advertised!

    I don't like prequels for the most part. Rogue One was successful to ME because the three main characters in it were not shown in earlier movies further along the timeline. They debuted in that movie so it was kind of like an origin story and they felt NEW to ME. And unlike a lot of MCU films, it actually had a beginning, middle and end for them. No more movies for those characters. Total standalone. And most importantly, this prequel was highly successful because it didn't undermine the canon and continuity of a series (which often sabotages the ORIGINAL series). Look at Fantastic Beasts 2. I think Minerva's cameo in that movie made the original Harry Potter series look kinda dumb. How is it possible Professor McGonagall was giving students a hard time at Hogwarts in the early 20th century if she was born in 1935 and was confirmed to have started teaching there in the 1950s? Or Wonder Woman 1984. According to that film, the ENTIRE world experienced a global catastrophe in 1984, and audiences are to expected to believe that Batman only found about her in 2016? LOL! I think prequels can be dangerous that way.

    I plan on watching Black Widow in October. Besides Tony, I thought Natasha was the best part of Endgame. I wasn't too thrilled with how the movie treated Hulk and Hawkeye, and how Marvel's "time travel" rules affected Captain America. I was very sorry to see her character die. Because she wasn't just a "badass" lady anymore.

  8. #3338
    Astonishing Member Albert1981's Avatar
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    And yes, I do believe Natasha's death negatively affected the Black Widow film. Look, people read reviews for movies and shows. And a HUGE percentage of the ones I read (and the overwhelming majority of them were positive by the way), sort of failed Natasha. Not because it was a bad movie. But because fans have moved on from her character because she DIED. That it should have been released five years ago. Many of them asked why did Marvel make this movie NOW, after the events of Endgame? All this talk hurt the film in my opinion. I talked to my brother about this yesterday as we were getting some lunch and I mentioned how I felt bad for Johansson because Widow was being released during these challenging times (thereby preventing more people from watching it). My bro has not watched a single SECOND of any of the MCU movies and/or shows, and he told me: "Well, she's dead now. So it doesn't matter." He can't be the only person who thinks this way. That's why I'm not a huge fan of prequels. Often times if a character reaches his/her natural end after series of movies/shows, a lot of folks don't wanna look back. Obviously not everybody feels this way, but I think a lot of them do.

  9. #3339
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    It has negative effects now but later on people watch it after Civil War so Nat's character arc flows more smoothly.

    Maybe in the future, they can have built in watch orders for the movies instead of just listing them chronologically. The order being Civil War --> Black Panther --> Black Widow (no end credits). The end credits with Val can be placed after Endgame.

  10. #3340
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albert1981 View Post
    I agree no movie is gonna do great for a while. Maybe for the rest of 2021. So you won't get any argument from my end there. I like the Fast & Furious franchise. The ones I've seen with the Rock and Statham were great. I just felt whatever the circumstances (pandemic or not), F9 would struggle. In regards to Black Widow, I was just surprised that Space Jam: A New Legacy overtook it in week two. Natasha's movie had FAR more positive and glowing reviews than Space Jam. I mean the reviews for the new Space Jam movie were absolutely atrocious. So I thought Black Widow would have held on a little bit longer (because the competition was so weak). Maybe Space Jam 2 is a better film than has been advertised!

    I don't like prequels for the most part. Rogue One was successful to ME because the three main characters in it were not shown in earlier movies further along the timeline. They debuted in that movie so it was kind of like an origin story and they felt NEW to ME. And unlike a lot of MCU films, it actually had a beginning, middle and end for them. No more movies for those characters. Total standalone. And most importantly, this prequel was highly successful because it didn't undermine the canon and continuity of a series (which often sabotages the ORIGINAL series). Look at Fantastic Beasts 2. I think Minerva's cameo in that movie made the original Harry Potter series look kinda dumb. How is it possible Professor McGonagall was giving students a hard time at Hogwarts in the early 20th century if she was born in 1935 and was confirmed to have started teaching there in the 1950s? Or Wonder Woman 1984. According to that film, the ENTIRE world experienced a global catastrophe in 1984, and audiences are to expected to believe that Batman only found about her in 2016? LOL! I think prequels can be dangerous that way.

    I plan on watching Black Widow in October. Besides Tony, I thought Natasha was the best part of Endgame. I wasn't too thrilled with how the movie treated Hulk and Hawkeye, and how Marvel's "time travel" rules affected Captain America. I was very sorry to see her character die. Because she wasn't just a "badass" lady anymore.

    I think you being surprised that Space Jam had a better weekend than BW last weekend is you having a fundamentally wrong view of the movie market now. And you are discounting streaming. BW has already passed Space Jam 2 in dailies again. I honestly think you are trying in your mind to compare this to other years. And you keep going over the same territory. Nothing is doing well. Wether she died in a previous movie or not wasn't going to make this movie make a ton more than it did in this environment. So again its going to have the highest domestic gross so far this year. Not including streaming into that. That is a success in this environment. Whether you think so or not.

  11. #3341
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, but they didn't seem believable as an ex-couple either. At least to me, that is. I guess I just got annoyed with it because it seemed cliche
    I definitely don't think they had chemistry like, say, Evans and Atwell. But in a way I think that kinda works too; they're ex's for a reason yknow? And MCU Strange is bad with people as a general rule.

    It used to annoy me that they included Christine as a semi-kinda-sorta love interest in the film. It felt largely unnecessary and trite. But I think now that this tells us a good deal more about who Strange is before his accident in ways you can't easily achieve otherwise, and while Christine is a character I don't need to ever see again I'm glad that she was there in the first film. Seeing how Strange handled close relationships and how he prioritized them helps us understand his journey better.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #3342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I definitely don't think they had chemistry like, say, Evans and Atwell. But in a way I think that kinda works too; they're ex's for a reason yknow? And MCU Strange is bad with people as a general rule.

    It used to annoy me that they included Christine as a semi-kinda-sorta love interest in the film. It felt largely unnecessary and trite. But I think now that this tells us a good deal more about who Strange is before his accident in ways you can't easily achieve otherwise, and while Christine is a character I don't need to ever see again I'm glad that she was there in the first film. Seeing how Strange handled close relationships and how he prioritized them helps us understand his journey better.
    I see what you mean, but I still feel like it could've been done just with them being friends. I'm just not a fan of forced romances.

  13. #3343
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    To a point, sure. But a platonic friendship isn't romantic love and the possibility of a family. Christine being an ex tells us that Strange puts his career first, and everything else isn't even a factor. He views his love interests as accolades and awards and trophies, something impressive to decorate his arm just like how his awards decorate his wall.

    You can establish that kind of prioritization without a "Christine" in the narrative, but it takes longer. An ex girlfriend who's still a little salty at their poor treatment is a much quicker, efficient way to get the point across.

    I don't disagree with you entirely tho, I found this whole dynamic to be the weakest part of an already average MCU movie, but I do think it told us stuff about Strange that helps us better understand the character. Maybe we didn't need to know it, but it told us anyway.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #3344
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    Wouldn't him being single tell that more effectively? If he put his work first, he wouldn't really have much of a love life

  15. #3345
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Yeah, but they didn't seem believable as an ex-couple either. At least to me, that is. I guess I just got annoyed with it because it seemed cliche
    I don't feel they're unbelievable as a couple, not at all. I just want a payoff with this actress that takes her beyond ex-GF. Like she was / has some important role.
    I know most people think the long lost brother/relation or sleeper-spy (from another dimension or whatever)

    are too cliche, but I don't see any point in her appearance, unless she ends up collateral damage, wringing out some sorrow or angst from Strange. I would hate that.
    ~ Oberon ~
    Comic-book reading Witch and Pagan since 1970
    I came for Kate, I stayed for Bette Love Fantastic Four, Namor, Batwoman, Dr.Strange.... i love them all

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