Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[CosmiComic]

Except when we saw him kill in Endgame, it was in the middle of a battle and there were no indication that he had harmed innocent lives or killed anybody who wasn't a bad guy.

The point is, it is weird to go 'why should we care about Clint the murderer' when literally every MCU hero except Spider-Man has killed and Clint's show involves him being held accountable for that.

Didn't he attack them?

And why exactly shouldn't heroes be held accountable? Why's that silly? I'm not sure why we're supposed to be ok with heroes murdering people but then act like villains are bad for doing it

[GenericUsername]

Let's digress from all the talk of murder and death for a while and focus on the best takeaway from the trailer:

Who wants to see an actual Rogers the Musical?

Do it, Marvel and Disney+.

I definitely want to see that now. Very curious!

[rpmaluki]

Let's digress from all the talk of murder and death for a while and focus on the best takeaway from the trailer:

Who wants to see an actual Rogers the Musical?

Do it, Marvel and Disney+.

Apparently Twitter thinks Chris Evans is playing "Thor" in the Rogers Musical, the man does look like him so I'm inclined to agree.

[MindofShadow]

Eh, murder in comic books is always defined differently.

All but like two heroes have killed human bad guys outside of war. Unless Ant-Man killed someo fthise Cross goons. Then it pretty much just leaves Spider-Man, who is like 16 years old lol.

Clint killed Cartel and Yakuza... aka bad guys.

Just like Tony went into a sovereign nation by himself and killed terrorists... aka bad guys.

Just like when T'challa went into a sovereign nation with bodyguards to kill arms dealers... aka bad guys.

The only time they do the "you can't kill! Justice system!!!" is when it is the Punisher and even then every just kinda gets over it lol. They give the big speech after Punisher shoots someone in the face in front of the "good" hero and then.... "oh well don't do it again frank, cya later!"

[Drops Of Venus]

I was not expecting Hawkeye to be so.... Holiday Special. Like, I knew there would be a Christmas setting based on set pictures, but I didn't expect them to actually lean hard on that to the point where they are promoting the show as an actual Christmas production. Not that I'm complaining. I actually think it's cool we're getting something like that in the MCU.

[Derek Metaltron]

So this appears to confirm:

- Captain Marvel is back for one episode.
- T-Challa is appearing in the Killmonger episode as Black Panther and again as Star Lord in the final episode.
- Stark Industries is invading Wakanda in the Killmonger episode. Stark or Obadiah Stane team up with Klaw?
- Black Widow and Hawkeye appear to be the last survivors of the Ultron-Vision reality.
- Iron Man's sacrifice in Avengers Endgame is getting a mention.
- The Multiverse Avengers/Guardians includes Captain Carter, Ultron Black Widow, Empress Gamora, T'Challa Star Lord, Party Thor and Supreme Strange.
- The Zombies are coming back!
- Captain Carter is super arrogant. XD
- Grandmaster and Korg are back and it's a party. Looks like this confirms the Tony Stark on Sakaar episode? Korg is also surrounded by numerous races including Asgardians, Skrulls and the yellow aliens from GOTG2.
- Pepper Potts is teaming up with a younger Shuri in the Killmonger episode! Pepper has a great big gun. XD
- Ego is seen absorbing Peter Quill! :O Looks like we're getting a follow up to Episode 2 after all.

Getting the impression the final episode will be deluxe sized and will tip a hand to every episode previous, whether that's with a character from that universe or appearances of elements from it.

[CosmiComic]

Pepper Potts in in this?

Also, it looks like T'Challa as Star-Lord won't be completely ideal after all.

[MindofShadow]

Getting the impression the final episode will be deluxe sized and will tip a hand to every episode previous, whether that's with a character from that universe or appearances of elements from it.

So basically... UltraVision (or Ego? or both?) is such a threat it threatens more than one universe and The Watcher intervenes?

[Chris0013]

I think they mean because of the Snap. It would be weird for him to say he'll be home for Christmas if they divorced and it seems like he's texting his wife in one scene.

Sounds like he was talking to her on the phone and said he would be back in a day or two....and refers to her as babe. I don't think exes refer to each other that way.

[Derek Metaltron]

Episode 6 tomorrow is confirmed to be ‘What If Killmonger Saved Tony Stark?’ Definitely interested to see this Iron Man/Black Panther fusion.

[CosmiComic]

Iron Panther?

[John Venus]

Do we count all those aliens he killed in Endgame?

He's also the one who came up with the plan that killed Ebony Maw.

If those aliens count then he is committing murder every time he eats a chicken sandwich. :P

In both cases, he didn't directly take a life. The suit did the work in EG and Stark is the one who pulled the trigger on Maw. Plus the latter is an alien, who knows if he is even dead for real?

Let's digress from all the talk of murder and death for a while and focus on the best takeaway from the trailer:

Who wants to see an actual Rogers the Musical?

Do it, Marvel and Disney+.

lol, Hawkeye can't catch a break. I've seen comment sections where people are talking more about this than anything else in the trailer. The YT comment section was 60% about the Rogers musical. Cap stole his thunder with barely a mention.

Didn't he attack them?

And why exactly shouldn't heroes be held accountable? Why's that silly? I'm not sure why we're supposed to be ok with heroes murdering people but then act like villains are bad for doing it

We don't see how the fight started.

I never said they shouldn't be held accountable. Civil War already addressed the accountability idea. My point is, why single out Hawkeye as a murderer when literally every MCU hero has a body count?

[CosmiComic]

I've said several times that he doesn't count in the same way because killing someone in the midst of combat is different than killing someone outside of combat. Yes, we don't know who started the fight, but Rhodey's dialogue with Nat, and even Clint's dialogue indicates, though not definitively, he sought out and killed those people. So that's murder, not just killing. That's my point.

And Civil War barely addressed accountability. It villainized the pro-accountability side because Marvel doesn't have the strength to actually criticize vigilantism outside of extreme examples like the Punisher. And even Rhodey, who was on Tony's side in CA:CW, somehow handwaved Clint's actions in Endgame because the victims were bad guys.

Why would you be surprised Cap stole Hawkeye's thunder? We have actual reason to like Steve in the MCU, unlike Clint, IMO

[Frontier]

So basically... UltraVision (or Ego? or both?) is such a threat it threatens more than one universe and The Watcher intervenes?

Ultron Vision is supposed to get the Infinity Stones, I think, so that might be a bigger cause for alarm.

I think Ego absorbing Peter is the sign that Star-Lord T'Challa's universe is doomed right before Uatu plucks him out of it and saves him.

[Ascended]

Really digging on that Hawkeye trailer. Exactly what I expected/hoped; a healthy, but not obscene, Fraction influence, the family, and a more light hearted vibe than the likes of Winter Soldier or Black Widow. Surprised by how xmas-y it is, I wasn't expecting them to go all holiday special (as Venus said).

I don't buy the idea that Clint and his wife split up. She's not seen at dinner. There's a *lot* of things that could be other than "divorce." Plus he seems to be talking to her on the phone. Maybe Clint took the kids for some Dad time. But who knows, maybe they did split up. We'll find out in a few months.

Glad that we'll see some fallout from Ronin. It's not that Clint killed enemy combatants in the process of saving lives. Almost all the MCU heroes have killed people like that. But Clint didn't just kill enemy combatants; he went full Predator on them; hunting them down and leaving such a mess that Rhodes, a career soldier who has seen his fair share of awful things, was disturbed by it. Let's not pretend Clint's actions here are the same as Cap throwing a Hydra soldier out of a plane while that soldier is trying to blow up NYC. I don't want Clint to go to jail or anything, I'm not overly bothered by mob bosses dying, but still, what Clint did was neither the behavior of a SHIELD agent or a (Avengers sanctioned) hero, and that's gotta be addressed.

Loving that What If teaser. This show. What a fun breathe of fresh air. This is everything I love about comics and superheroes and I like how easily digestible each episode is. Nice change of pace from the MCU's long-form narrative.