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  1. #2881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I was being snarky but MCU Hawkeye is barely a character. He's boring with no personality. He's really the only MCU hero I dislike.

    I don't disagree with your othet point. If Beck was willing to kill and lie like this, he was never stable to begin with. Stark was just a trigger for him
    The fact you don't like Hawkeye doesn't mean he lacks a personality.
    That's a you thing.

  2. #2882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro View Post
    The fact you don't like Hawkeye doesn't mean he lacks a personality.
    That's a you thing.
    What personality does he have? What exactly defines him as a character? Literally every other MCU hero has more going for them

  3. #2883
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    What personality does he have? What exactly defines him as a character? Literally every other MCU hero has more going for them
    Well, talking MCU-wise, he's stoic, has a very sardonic sense of humor, and has a strong sense of responsibility that keeps him torn between his duty to his job as a hero and to his family.

    He's not an overtly warm person and can sometimes be a little prickly, but he does have a warmth to him for his loved ones.

  4. #2884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, talking MCU-wise, he's stoic, has a very sardonic sense of humor, and has a strong sense of responsibility that keeps him torn between his duty to his job as a hero and to his family.

    He's not an overtly warm person and can sometimes be a little prickly, but he does have a warmth to him for his loved ones.
    I never really got that from him. He just talked about it briefly but when did wea ctually see that? In AoU he gets a family out of nowhere instead of a real personality, then forgets them to join Cap in CW and backtalk Tony when Tony called him out for it. Then I'm supposed to care about him murdering people in Endgame. Where is what you described in any of that?

  5. #2885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I never really got that from him. He just talked about it briefly but when did wea ctually see that? In AoU he gets a family out of nowhere instead of a real personality, then forgets them to join Cap in CW and backtalk Tony when Tony called him out for it. Then I'm supposed to care about him murdering people in Endgame. Where is what you described in any of that?
    Those are present in every movie he shows up in, and in addition to what Frontier said the movies has also shown Hawkeye is vengeful, in the first Avengers his main priority is getting at Loki for controlling him, he has a subplot with Pietro where they keep one uping each other, and his rampage in Endgame clearly born of a misguided vengeance.
    Then he didn’t forget about his family, if Captain America was asking for Clint's help clearly it had to be serious.
    Again, you can dislike the character but that doesn't mean he has no personality.

  6. #2886
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, talking MCU-wise, he's stoic, has a very sardonic sense of humor, and has a strong sense of responsibility that keeps him torn between his duty to his job as a hero and to his family.

    He's not an overtly warm person and can sometimes be a little prickly, but he does have a warmth to him for his loved ones.

    Hawkeye's has more potential to be more than the safe bet characters they loved to give so much attention than like Star Lord and Iron Man, In short, Hawkeye reminds me of what Edward Norton Hulk was, those sort of characters can be quite restricted in MCU because these characters just dont work primarily well with the MCU tone,

    I feel the reason Hawkeye never got a solo film was because of this factor. His sardonic personality and sense of him taking everything more seriously than the rest just does not work much for the MCU, although they still keep him around but I doubt he can ever be the main center of attention without MCU changing his personality to more comedy-like as they did with Thor.
    Last edited by Castle; 07-05-2021 at 05:10 AM.

  7. #2887
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro View Post
    Those are present in every movie he shows up in, and in addition to what Frontier said the movies has also shown Hawkeye is vengeful, in the first Avengers his main priority is getting at Loki for controlling him, he has a subplot with Pietro where they keep one uping each other, and his rampage in Endgame clearly born of a misguided vengeance.
    Then he didn’t forget about his family, if Captain America was asking for Clint's help clearly it had to be serious.
    Again, you can dislike the character but that doesn't mean he has no personality.
    I dislike him because he didn't have much of a personality. Just having a family isn't a personality. Maybe saying he has none is too harsh. He did have something with Pietro and later with Wanda but it wasn't much. Most of this is just stuff that's said, not shown like with the other heroes we saw evolve across several movies. And he did forget about his family because he ran off with Cap on a wild goose chase that broke up the Avengers, then had the nerve to act smug to Iron Man. And his whole rampage in Endgame was pointless in the narrative and could've been cut. My problem with him is every attempt at giving characterization to him seems to be added in every installment in a piecemeal fashion, instead of in a logical gradual fashion.

  8. #2888
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I dislike him because he didn't have much of a personality. Just having a family isn't a personality. Maybe saying he has none is too harsh. He did have something with Pietro and later with Wanda but it wasn't much. Most of this is just stuff that's said, not shown like with the other heroes we saw evolve across several movies. And he did forget about his family because he ran off with Cap on a wild goose chase that broke up the Avengers, then had the nerve to act smug to Iron Man. And his whole rampage in Endgame was pointless in the narrative and could've been cut. My problem with him is every attempt at giving characterization to him seems to be added in every installment in a piecemeal fashion, instead of in a logical gradual fashion.
    You keep saying he has no personality but frankly this just begins and ends with the fact you don't like him and calling just about everything he does bad.

  9. #2889
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I never really got that from him. He just talked about it briefly but when did wea ctually see that? In AoU he gets a family out of nowhere instead of a real personality, then forgets them to join Cap in CW and backtalk Tony when Tony called him out for it. Then I'm supposed to care about him murdering people in Endgame. Where is what you described in any of that?
    In his interactions with Natasha and other characters in the movie? Like when he inspires Wanda and Pietro? And I think the family informs his personality to some extent.

    The whole thing with joining Team Cap was him acting on principal and loyalty to Cap, even if it did make him leave his family, but that's what makes it complicated.

  10. #2890
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro View Post
    You keep saying he has no personality but frankly this just begins and ends with the fact you don't like him and calling just about everything he does bad.
    Maybe I'm not explaining myself well. But my problem is I can identify characteristics of other heroes more easily than him. I thought the attempt in AoU of giving a family to him came out of nowhere. I though Pietro had more of an impact on me in one movie than Hawkeye in 4 so far

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    In his interactions with Natasha and other characters in the movie? Like when he inspires Wanda and Pietro? And I think the family informs his personality to some extent.

    The whole thing with joining Team Cap was him acting on principal and loyalty to Cap, even if it did make him leave his family, but that's what makes it complicated.
    I always thought his interactions with Natasha were underwhelming or mildly humorous at best. It's all just based on background stuff we never saw but with the other relationships we saw them evolve on screen. Even Clint and Wanda is barely much of anything because didn't communicate a lot with her like other heroes did

    Team loyalty isn't worth it when the team is wrong. And what before that movie indicated he ever was more loyal to Cap? I could go on about how the teams in that movie don't make enough sense
    Last edited by CosmiComic; 07-05-2021 at 08:26 AM.

  11. #2891
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I always thought his interactions with Natasha were underwhelming or mildly humorous at best. It's all just based on background stuff we never saw but with the other relationships we saw them evolve on screen. Even Clint and Wanda is barely much of anything because didn't communicate a lot with her like other heroes did
    Well, sometimes fully-formed relationships by the time we see them can still be endearing. I mean, that's actually a lot of relationship dynamics in fiction...but Clint had probably one of the most impactful moments with Wanda save for Vision.
    Team loyalty isn't worth it when the team is wrong. And what before that movie indicated he ever was more loyal to Cap? I could go on about how the teams in that movie don't make enough sense
    But Team Cap wasn't really wrong? In the sense they were trying to expose how Bucky was framed?

    He'd been led by Cap for a while now so I think it would be easy to infer loyalty from that.

  12. #2892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, sometimes fully-formed relationships by the time we see them can still be endearing. I mean, that's actually a lot of relationship dynamics in fiction...but Clint had probably one of the most impactful moments with Wanda save for Vision.
    He did have an impact on Scarlet Witch, but IMO her interactions with Cap seemed more meaningful. hawkeye gives one speech to SW and then "rescues" her after appearing out of nowhere in the next movie

    Fully-formed relationships can have an impact, but they're relationship always seemed like more of an afterthought in the script. At least, that's what I got from the first 2 Avengers movies

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But Team Cap wasn't really wrong? In the sense they were trying to expose how Bucky was framed?

    He'd been led by Cap for a while now so I think it would be easy to infer loyalty from that.
    Cap broke up the Avengers because he didn't want to listen to people. he was right to defend Bucky but Zemo's planned only worked because Cap was stubborn and didn't listen.

    And all the Avengers have been led by Cap. What's different with Hawkeye?

  13. #2893
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    He did have an impact on Scarlet Witch, but IMO her interactions with Cap seemed more meaningful. hawkeye gives one speech to SW and then "rescues" her after appearing out of nowhere in the next movie

    Fully-formed relationships can have an impact, but they're relationship always seemed like more of an afterthought in the script. At least, that's what I got from the first 2 Avengers movies
    He helped inspire her and her brother to be heroes and fight. I don't think Steve actually did that. And that built into their scene in CW.

    If we're talking Natasha, I think their relationship informed a lot about them in the movies and helped expand on both characters, but to each their own.
    Cap broke up the Avengers because he didn't want to listen to people. he was right to defend Bucky but Zemo's planned only worked because Cap was stubborn and didn't listen.

    And all the Avengers have been led by Cap. What's different with Hawkeye?
    Well, Cap didn't really break up The Avengers. He had misgivings about the government overseeing the Avengers and would probably have left quietly if not for the Bucky situation which put him at odds with the authorities.

    Doesn't the fact that Hawkeye acted the way he did show the difference?

  14. #2894
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    He helped inspire her and her brother to be heroes and fight. I don't think Steve actually did that. And that built into their scene in CW.

    If we're talking Natasha, I think their relationship informed a lot about them in the movies and helped expand on both characters, but to each their own.
    Pietro seemed more inspired by SHIELD than Clint. As for Natasha, I have similar qualms about her, but at least I saw her develop connections with other heroes. Clint's development is too intermittent. I don't see a continuously development of his character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Well, Cap didn't really break up The Avengers. He had misgivings about the government overseeing the Avengers and would probably have left quietly if not for the Bucky situation which put him at odds with the authorities.

    Doesn't the fact that Hawkeye acted the way he did show the difference?
    He absolutely did break up the Avengers. He couldn't stand the world telling him he couldn't go and do whatever he wanted wherever he wanted. He had reasonable arguments in the beginning about not wanting be turned into a government strike force, but in the end he just wanted to do things as usual without any level of introspection. And in the end the mission he went on was a bust. Despite previously opposing SHIELD doing the same thing in CA:WS

    And Hawkeye joining his side only shows the difference after the fact. Where was the build-up to it?

  15. #2895

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    I'm not the biggest MCU Hawkeye fan but to say he doesn't have a personality or standout moments or character arcs in the MCU is patently false. Just because you didn't like what he got doesn't mean it wasn't there.

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