Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[jwatson]

I'm not against the idea of a Black Widow movie but it's not really the most interesting concept to being with. The whole "no powers" type heroes only can be so interesting IMO. But it probably should've come earlier.



Weren't people only asking for this movie around Phase 3? I remember her getting plenty of hate in earlier phases, some of it being excessive IMO



Is it possible to be less interested in the Hawkeye show?

I think it's just the whole concept for me. How many spy movies are there. so in a world of super powers and the fantastical the whole premise just seems done. Now what would have been a great movie imo if your going to do a non power super hero spy movie the spy should not know their partner has super powers and be dead ass serious they out there saving the world until hey realize they aren't and then their humanity comes into play and they are. lol. i mean something with a hook. Or like a movie about Thor sidekick from the promos and commercials, i could so see a bill and ted type movie with him lol. Like he gets completely in over his head and in the final scene when theres no hope Thor shows up and just trashes everyone in seconds and like "Bro, where's my CAPE!?" lol. and he can be all "oh yeah, i forgot to tell you i do thor's dry cleaning." lol

I guess i'm just not that interested in traditional movies in a super hero world setting.

Touche on Hawkeye. LMAO.

[Panic]

I think it made sense to make the film, but it was not a good idea to kill the character off first. My sister said to me that it's difficult to get enthused about a character you know is already dead, and I guess a lot of people had that issue. I was quite enthusiastic about the film, especially knowing Florence Pugh was going to be in it, because she's always very good, plus Rachel Weis and David Harbour... along with Scarlett Johansson that's quite a cast; plus, I thought it made sense for Marvel to continue to shift to other genres, even if it's genres not far from super-heroes. The film serves a double-purpose in that it gives Scarlett her Widow movie, but also uses it to introduce Yelena, who is obviously going to be used in upcoming movies (you can see them starting to put together a kind of Dark Avengers, what with both Yelena and Walker working for the Contessa... I assume that is going to be a thing).

Overall I thought it was as good as your average Marvel movie, and I had a good time watching it.

[jwatson]

I think it made sense to make the film, but it was not a good idea to kill the character off first. My sister said to me that it's difficult to get enthused about a character you know is already dead, and I guess a lot of people had that issue. I was quite enthusiastic about the film, especially knowing Florence Pugh was going to be in it, because she's always very good, plus Rachel Weis and David Harbour... along with Scarlett Johansson that's quite a cast; plus, I thought it made sense for Marvel to continue to shift to other genres, even if it's genres not far from super-heroes. The film serves a double-purpose in that it gives Scarlett her Widow movie, but also uses it to introduce Yelena, who is obviously going to be used in upcoming movies (you can see them starting to put together a kind of Dark Avengers, what with both Yelena and Walker working for the Contessa... I assume that is going to be a thing).

Overall I thought it was as good as your average Marvel movie, and I had a good time watching it.

This also makes a lot of sense. I remember seeing an article or something in passing about Scarlet Johansen apparently saying she is done playing black widow and i remember thinking. "well why should someone care about a movie your promoting as your never playing the character again."

[Albert1981]

I think spy movies and shows work (sometimes brilliantly), when there is actual espionage, intrigue and subterfuge. And when the characters in them have NOTHING to do with superheroes. Why do you think Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy, the Quiet American and the Man from U.N.C.L.E. were greeted so enthusiastically by readers and watchers alike? Espionage thrillers work best in the context of the Cold War. The ideological and geopolitical conflicts during that era were things very rooted in the real world and definitely not in the superhero vein. It also makes it harder for characters like the Black Widow(s) to work when the Soviet Union no longer exists. It's been gone for thirty years for Pete's sake!

[Oberon]

Women don't age worse than man on the face, this is no sense. Men are allowed to age and women don't.

Due to the constant pressure of our society for women to be sexy at any age, most women are good with moisturising. Some guys do it too.

But the emphasis on eternal youth causes this and the subsequent women losing certain roles as they get older until someone says

We need a hagggish Witch (or whatever)

Men can be aged Sages or Wizards.

Women can only be old toothless crones.

[CosmiComic]

I think it's just the whole concept for me. How many spy movies are there. so in a world of super powers and the fantastical the whole premise just seems done. Now what would have been a great movie imo if your going to do a non power super hero spy movie the spy should not know their partner has super powers and be dead ass serious they out there saving the world until hey realize they aren't and then their humanity comes into play and they are. lol. i mean something with a hook. Or like a movie about Thor sidekick from the promos and commercials, i could so see a bill and ted type movie with him lol. Like he gets completely in over his head and in the final scene when theres no hope Thor shows up and just trashes everyone in seconds and like "Bro, where's my CAPE!?" lol. and he can be all "oh yeah, i forgot to tell you i do thor's dry cleaning." lol

I guess i'm just not that interested in traditional movies in a super hero world setting.

Touche on Hawkeye. LMAO.

I kind of feel the same way about MCU spy stuff. It's just basically the same as most other spy stuff, which is underwhelming in the MCU. Probably the only less exciting thing would be a bow and arrow guy

Due to the constant pressure of our society for women to be sexy at any age, most women are good with moisturising. Some guys do it too.

But the emphasis on eternal youth causes this and the subsequent women losing certain roles as they get older until someone says

We need a hagggish Witch (or whatever)

Men can be aged Sages or Wizards.

Women can only be old toothless crones.

Yeah, or doting mother figures existing to prop up the main male hero.

[Oberon]

You said: I'm just using lingo the MCU itself used in its movies.

So that is what makes it right? Sorry it doesn't cut it for me. I tend to agree with a lot of your ideas and observations though.

[Albert1981]

I think it made sense to make the film, but it was not a good idea to kill the character off first. My sister said to me that it's difficult to get enthused about a character you know is already dead, and I guess a lot of people had that issue. I was quite enthusiastic about the film, especially knowing Florence Pugh was going to be in it, because she's always very good, plus Rachel Weis and David Harbour... along with Scarlett Johansson that's quite a cast; plus, I thought it made sense for Marvel to continue to shift to other genres, even if it's genres not far from super-heroes. The film serves a double-purpose in that it gives Scarlett her Widow movie, but also uses it to introduce Yelena, who is obviously going to be used in upcoming movies (you can see them starting to put together a kind of Dark Avengers, what with both Yelena and Walker working for the Contessa... I assume that is going to be a thing).

Overall I thought it was as good as your average Marvel movie, and I had a good time watching it.

Yep. Making a prequel about a character who has already died in another movie removes ALL STAKES in the prequel. We already KNOW Natasha's character arc. We KNOW she will survive this film. So I think that definitely hurt the appeal of the movie. I think Feige and company sat on making a Black Widow film for TOO long. Scarlett was the first major female superhero in the MCU. She deserved SO much better. It would have been great to make this movie actually happen between CW and IW, but it is what it is.

[Albert1981]

You said: I'm just using lingo the MCU itself used in its movies.

So that is what makes it right? Sorry it doesn't cut it for me. I tend to agree with a lot of your ideas and observations though.

Speaking of "aging", I think we tend to agree because we're old. I like using words like "chick", "broad", "dame", "mac", "fella", "dude" because I've always loved "informal" prose. I apologize if some folks think it's offensive. But most of the girls I know, don't seem to mind it.

[inisideguy]

I don't know. For me as a viewer I didn't care if the BW character had died. And the idea of well we knew she wouldn't die in this movie cause she hadn't died yet seems silly to me. I knew Iron Man wasn't going to die in Iron Man 1. And I knew Captain America wasn't going to die in his movies. And I know Shang Chi isn't going to die in his movie.

[Dipter]

I disagree with this idea that Black Widow would have somehow been better had it been made sooner, especially considering that the supporting cast is the best part. David Harbour and Florence Pugh didn’t become famous until a few years ago, so had the film come any earlier they most likely wouldn’t have been cast.

[Albert1981]

I don't know. For me as a viewer I didn't care if the BW character had died. And the idea of well we knew she wouldn't die in this movie cause she hadn't died yet seems silly to me. I knew Iron Man wasn't going to die in Iron Man 1. And I knew Captain America wasn't going to die in his movies. And I know Shang Chi isn't going to die in his movie.

Yeah, but her arc had already been completed. We've seen this movie before (figuratively speaking). Hans Solo died in the Force Awakens, then he gets a prequel in Solo almost immediately thereafter. And we know how that turned out. I think audiences view things in a linear fashion. To go back and forth on "timelines" can cause audiences to lose interest (particularly when the main characters in those movies/shows have ALREADY died onscreen). Subconsciously a lot of folks think when somebody dies, that's the end of their story. Because that's how it is in real life. That's why I don't think the MCU should make too many prequels starring characters who have already passed.

[inisideguy]

Yeah, but her arc had already been completed. We've seen this movie before (figuratively speaking). Hans Solo died in the Force Awakens, then he gets a prequel in Solo almost immediately thereafter. And we know how that turned out. I think audiences view things in a linear fashion. To go back and forth on "timelines" can cause audiences to lose interest (particularly when the main characters in those movies/shows have ALREADY died onscreen). I think that really hurt Black Widow unfortunately.

I guess. Not how my brain works. I like solo too lol. I mean shoot I watched the clone wars tv show and I knew that Darth Vader and Yoda die.

[inisideguy]

I disagree with this idea that Black Widow would have somehow been better had it been made sooner, especially considering that the supporting cast is the best part. David Harbour and Florence Pugh didn’t become famous until a few years ago, so had the film come any earlier they most likely wouldn’t have been cast.

I am on your side. Should it have been made sooner? Yea I guess. But it was a good movie so thats all that matters to me.

[Albert1981]

I guess. Not how my brain works. I like solo too lol. I mean shoot I watched the clone wars tv show and I knew that Darth Vader and Yoda die.

LOL. You must literally be one of ten people on this planet. Yeah, like I said, when people die on screen, SOME folks tend to think that's the end. At least that's how I view it. I haven't watched Black Widow, but I was shocked at how disappointing the box office/streaming results were. I have to be honest, after watching the first three MCU Disney Plus shows, I felt something I never felt before when I watched the movies: Fatigue.