Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Force de Phenix]

Race (and gender, etc...) is all part of a characters identity. And you know that if a POC character...no matter how minor...was white washed people would lose their **** over it.

We get people are losing their **** right now over making characters not white because they don't shut up about it on social media, but they can't hide minorities or make them irrelevant characters anymore.
What reason would they have to make Blade, Storm, or Blue Marvel white? Which comic character's story suffered because of bending?

[Albert1981]

He was a Young Avenger but it didn't last long. But the MCU could do it differently.

Oh, thank you kindly for that answer.

[Albert1981]

Anybody else getting a bit annoyed at Disney's excessive reliance on "hype culture" in their Marvel properties lately?



https://screenrant.com/hawkeye-kingp...ed-kazi-twist/

By introducing Kingpin and Echo the way that they did, I think Hawkeye REALLY suffered as a show. There was just too much **** going on there for my liking.

I also read thus:

"Had there been no pandemic and six month of hiatus during the production, we would not have seen Kang in the series (we wouldn't have seen more romance either. The director had a lot of Sylvie stuff added during the shutdown). The writers said Marvel didn't greenlight the Kang thing until late during the production and the ending was changed hastily. I think it's after DS2 was rewritten by the same writer they decided to go for the Kang reveal."

It's okay to change things mid-stream, but Marvel is NOT doing it in the right way to me. I used to trash Warner Brothers and Sony for rushing their productions while praising Disney's more deliberate approach to making their movies in the past. But I actually think WB and Sony have learned their lessons by DELAYING their projects. They're giving more time for VFX houses to do their thing and I think that's a great way to improve products as well as fighting off superhero fatigue. I totally disagree with Disney's approach. They're putting WAY too much pressure on their VFX people by rushing them to meet tight deadlines, and my doubts about the She-Hulk series have only grown as a result. Which is a shame because it's one of my most anticipated MCU projects.

https://www.gamesradar.com/black-ada...ate-delay-vfx/

https://www.cartoonbrew.com/feature-...ay-215421.html

[Chris0013]

We get people are losing their **** right now over making characters not white because they don't shut up about it on social media, but they can't hide minorities or make them irrelevant characters anymore.
What reason would they have to make Blade, Storm, or Blue Marvel white? Which comic character's story suffered because of bending?

I am not saying they should hide them or make them irrelevant. In fact I am saying the opposite. That Marvel should create and promote content with their historically diverse characters.

And my comment about making Storm, et al...white is about the stupidity of any sort of race swapping. It shouldn't be done at all. Hell...I would be at the front of the torch and pitchfork weilding mob if they did that.

[Albert1981]

I am not saying they should hide them or make them irrelevant. In fact I am saying the opposite. That Marvel should create and promote content with their historically diverse characters.

And my comment about making Storm, et al...white is about the stupidity of any sort of race swapping. It shouldn't be done at all. Hell...I would be at the front of the torch and pitchfork weilding mob if they did that.

I'm not a huge fan of gender or race swapping. But if it's done in a reasonable way then I'm okay with it. I think Sam Jackson's Fury is fine. I was okay with Elba's Heimdall too. The Taskmaster was a dude before we found out she had a vagina at the end of the Black Widow movie, so I'm not even sure if that was a gender swap.

[Chris0013]

I'm not a huge fan of gender or race swapping. But if it's done in a reasonable way then I'm okay with it. I think Sam Jackson's Fury is fine. I was okay with Elba's Heimdall too. The Taskmaster was a dude before we found out she had a vagina at the end of the Black Widow movie, so I'm not even sure if that was a gender swap.

Taskmaster was one of my 2 issues with BW. The other being Red Guardian's portrayal.

[Albert1981]

Taskmaster was one of my 2 issues with BW. The other being Red Guardian's portrayal.

I don't mind the Taskmaster's gender swap. I minded her entire introduction in BW. She had like one sentence of dialogue in that movie. Such a boring portrayal of a villain (or misguided hero). And let's be honest, most MCU viewers have COMPLETELY forgotten the names of Nat's parents by now. I thought it was lame to retcon Natasha's "family" into the MCU. Yelena's introduction was good, but Weisz looked bored and Harbour acted like a buffoon. I REALLY wanted to enjoy BW, but I was so disappointed in it.

[Rincewind]

I am not saying they should hide them or make them irrelevant. In fact I am saying the opposite. That Marvel should create and promote content with their historically diverse characters.

And my comment about making Storm, et al...white is about the stupidity of any sort of race swapping. It shouldn't be done at all. Hell...I would be at the front of the torch and pitchfork weilding mob if they did that.

I disagree. Most minority characters were created with their race as a vital part of their identity and backstory. Most white characters are white because that was the default. Changing T'Challa to a white guy doesn't make sense because he is a king in an African kingdom isolated from the Western world.

If you change (a minor character chosen at random) Paladin to be Latino, is there any reason why that makes the character no longer work?

Also, Marvel did introduce new diverse characters and promote existing diverse characters. And people complained that the classic characters were being ignored or diminished. The fact is that some people will complain no matter what when non white characters appear.

[Chris0013]

I don't mind the Taskmaster's gender swap. I minded her entire introduction in BW. She had like one sentence of dialogue in that movie. Such a boring portrayal of a villain (or misguided hero). And let's be honest, most MCU viewers have COMPLETELY forgotten the names of Nat's parents by now. I thought it was lame to retcon Natasha's "family" into the MCU. Yelena's introduction was good, but Weisz looked bored and Harbour acted like a buffoon. I REALLY wanted to enjoy BW, but I was so disappointed in it.

That was my problem with RG. They made a highly competent soldier into a fat, drunken moron.

[Frontier]

My problem with Taskmaster:

A. They robbed all personality from the character. Even if they gender-flipped it, Taskmasters' personality is a big part of the characters' appeal outside the costume and skills.

B. All the instances of Taskmaster copying other heroes were in the trailer and marketing. The characters' one gimmick and they don't even do much with it.

C. The actual "reveal" was comical because of how out of place the actress' face looked in that suit.

D. There was no real need for the character to actually be Taskmaster aside from branding and name recognition.

E. No memorable final fight with Taskmaster.

[Albert1981]

That was my problem with RG. They made a highly competent soldier into a fat, drunken moron.

I like the humor in MCU stuff, but I think they took it too far in BW. Like making jokes about uteruses and stuff. But I guess that was a disastrous legacy of AoU. Apparently women who can't be mothers in the MCU are "monsters". To be fair, Red Guardian WAS competent in BW...In the first ten minutes of the movie. Once we heard his Russian accent, it was just downhill from there. I really hated Nat's sendoff in that movie. ScarJo was acting her ass off in that film, and I feel like it was such a waste.

[Kingdom X]

I like the humor in MCU stuff, but I think they took it too far in BW. Like making jokes about uteruses and stuff. But I guess that was a disastrous legacy of AoU. Apparently women who can't be mothers in the MCU are "monsters". To be fair, Red Guardian WAS competent in BW...In the first ten minutes of the movie. Once we heard his Russian accent, it was just downhill from there. I really hated Nat's sendoff in that movie. ScarJo was acting her ass off in that film, and I feel like it was such a waste.

BW was tonally all over the place. It starts out as this very serious movie highlighting the sad reality of how human trafficking impacts women. And then by the end we’re doing big CGI fests and forgiving the two “parents” who played active roles in getting Natasha and Yelena trafficked, abused, and mutilated.

[Frontier]

The giant skybase really didn't feel earned. Like the movie couldn't make up its mind whether it wanted to be Bourne or Bond.

[Chris0013]

The giant skybase really didn't feel earned. Like the movie couldn't make up its mind whether it wanted to be Bourne or Bond.

I see that as no different than SHIELD's heli-carrier.

[Frontier]

I see that as no different than SHIELD's heli-carrier.

But at least with SHIELD they had a bunch of in-universe build up to that and it was a staple of the MCU for a bit.

Dreykov somehow has a giant fortress in the sky with virtually no setup.