Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[MindofShadow]

Problem with the twist is that fake Mandarin was so damn intimidating and different from other MCU villains that losing him was a gut punch. While the idea of a fake terrorist is brilliant and raised some interesting political themes .

The twist caught the blunt of the internet doing its over reaction thing but the "problems" with the movie wasn't the twist.

A movie called Iron Man but Tony was out of his suit a HUGE chunk and honestly watching MacGuyver Tony Stark isn't my idea of interesting. And the times he was in the armor featured an armor that sucked without any weapons.

PTSD plot line was thrown away as quickly as it came. And never touched on again. It was a great idea and concluded in an unsatisfactory way.

All those cool armors at the end and they were used for 12 seconds a piece and destroyed like paper mache.

Oh no pepper is dead, oh look she's not dead, oh look she has super powers and his gonna do some weird kick missile thign to kill the bad guy, oh no she still has exremis and might die, well nvm Tony Stark can figure out it off panel!

The conclusion of the movie was just stupid. Wrapped out pepper stuck with extremis, destorying all the suits, arc reactor in chest in... 45 seconds of montage. And none of it stuck anyway.

If you wanted to have an "iron man story" where you go from Iron Man to IM2 to Avengers to IM3 and this concluded the character as he retired, teh movie works a lot better lol

[Ascended]

If I remember correctly, RDJr's original contract ended with 3, and they weren't sure if he'd return. That's why 3 provided a viable jumping off point for him.

I could be wrong but that's what I recall reading back when the film came out anyway.

I suspect that if everyone had known Downy would be sticking around they would've played the finale differently.

And I liked seeing Tony without his armor, and the armor he did have not working properly. It was a nice change of pace. His suits did get destroyed easily, but the idea seems to be that Tony is splitting his attention so much, and is so distracted, that his work isn't up to standard. Instead of taking time to build a single, quality suit that he can get some miles out of, he's got dozens of halfassed gimmick suits on hand, shakily built, none of which can withstand too much punishment.

Definitely agree Killian and AIM were big let downs and it would've been cooler if....crap, what's her name.....had been the real villain. But alas, Ike.

They could have done better with the PTSD too. I thought it was handled relatively well in 3, it's the only film that actually addresses the emotional fallout of the Battle for New York, and I think there's a strong argument that the event still played a huge role in Tony's character arc going into stuff like Ultron and Civil War and the last two Avengers....but you're right that it could and should have perhaps played a more visible role in the character.

As I said, Iron Man 3 isn't one of my favorite MCU films but I think it's better than its reputation indicates. But that's just me.

[Sutekh]

The conclusion of the movie was just stupid. Wrapped out pepper stuck with extremis, destorying all the suits, arc reactor in chest in... 45 seconds of montage. And none of it stuck anyway.

Man, I so agree.

It's like the writer *hated* Tony Stark and everything about him, and wrote an 'ending' that got rid of all of it, the armors, the arc reactor, any sort of development he'd written *in his own movie,* and just sort of wrote out all the development he'd given Pepper and Tony and even Rhodey, and wrapped it all up with a shiny bow.

And then the next Marvel movie comes out and Tony's back in the armor like it never ****ing happened. Like Marvel sort of quietly retconned Iron Man 3 before the body was even cold. "Oh, ha ha. Shane Black said Tony blew up all the armors and retired. Such a joker, that guy..."

I loved the Mandarin twist though, because I grew up reading the comics and already knew that story, so something new, a twist I *didn't* expect? That's just pure joy for me. A by the numbers retread of some story I've already read? Boring! Give me something new!

I definitely would have preferred the Extremis inventor go on to be a major villain, instead of Killian. Maya? A lady villain? Sure!

Killed off because 'she wouldn't sell toys?' Oh, screw that noise.

Did *anyone* in the history of ever, buy up all those Aldrich Killian toys? Give me a break.

[MindofShadow]

If I remember correctly, RDJr's original contract ended with 3, and they weren't sure if he'd return. That's why 3 provided a viable jumping off point for him.

I thought that was for post Avengers 2. It was after AoU where Ike was starting to get cheap.

As I said, Iron Man 3 isn't one of my favorite MCU films but I think it's better than its reputation indicates. But that's just me.

Agreed. It isn't a bad movie, MCU just has way better ones lol.

Man, I so agree.

It's like the writer *hated* Tony Stark and everything about him, and wrote an 'ending' that got rid of all of it, the armors, the arc reactor, any sort of development he'd written *in his own movie,* and just sort of wrote out all the development he'd given Pepper and Tony and even Rhodey, and wrapped it all up with a shiny bow.

And then the next Marvel movie comes out and Tony's back in the armor like it never ****ing happened. Like Marvel sort of quietly retconned Iron Man 3 before the body was even cold. "Oh, ha ha. Shane Black said Tony blew up all the armors and retired. Such a joker, that guy..."

I did like that in Civil War they called back to that though and why pepper and stark weren't together

(of course they got together again off screen.

MCU has way too much happen off screen coughHULKcough)

[Frontier]

Pepper with Extremis was even dumber than Pepper with Rescue in Endgame. The IM movies had a surprising issue with not letting Tony finish off his own villains solo.

It def probably differs per person but the most interesting thing about Tony is his corporate and pro-war background. IIRC Stan Lee created him because he wanted to see if he could make someone like that likable. In that regard, I really like how the Iron Man movies all attempted to deal with that and IM3 in particular did so by showing how the industry Tony used to be part of using 'the Mandarin' as their cover to push for the same instability that Tony himself used to contribute to. Tony being a weapons manufacturer in the past is such a rich backstory ripe for great exploration for how these industries connect to the our country's politics. IMO it's a much better story than a standard hero fights bad guy and wins story. It's like Winter Soldier to me. Great movie (one of the best MCU movies) but very toothless and has no interest in exploring any of the questions it quickly brings up in the beginning since it becomes an action hero vs. Nazi movie with all political implications sidestepped and ignored once the Hydra reveal happens

I guess to me the Iron Man/Mandarin dynamic goes into their contrasting ideologies and familial dynasties and how that informs them as people and as adversaries.

MCU has way too much happen off screen coughHULKcough)

That's the problem with trying to tell a serialized Superhero story in a series of movies instead of a weekly thing (the cartoons tend to not have this problem unless you're Young Justice). It's part of the benefit of the Disney+ shows but even then it's still a problem.

[John Venus]

I also think there should have been more build up to Tony giving up the arc reactor. We know from IM2 that Tony is reluctant to get medical help. They should have made it a bigger part of his arc and showed him finally coming to a point where he is willing to ask for help.

PTSD plot line was thrown away as quickly as it came. And never touched on again. It was a great idea and concluded in an unsatisfactory way.

I agree with the rest of your post except for this part. His PTSD is a recurring thing in AoU, CW, IW and EG and influenced his actions in those movies. It's just not as bad as it was in IM3.

It's like the writer *hated* Tony Stark and everything about him, and wrote an 'ending' that got rid of all of it, the armors, the arc reactor, any sort of development he'd written *in his own movie,* and just sort of wrote out all the development he'd given Pepper and Tony and even Rhodey, and wrapped it all up with a shiny bow.

And then the next Marvel movie comes out and Tony's back in the armor like it never ****ing happened. Like Marvel sort of quietly retconned Iron Man 3 before the body was even cold. "Oh, ha ha. Shane Black said Tony blew up all the armors and retired. Such a joker, that guy...".

The writers didn't hate him, it was meant to be a send off. Albeit an imperfect one. They had no idea if RD Jr would come back for more after IM3.

Not mentioning why Tony suited up again is more on Whedon. At least the CW writers addressed it by having Tony mention that he came back because of Hydra's reemergence after Winter Soldier.

Pepper with Extremis was even dumber than Pepper with Rescue in Endgame. The IM movies had a surprising issue with not letting Tony finish off his own villains solo.

Pepper in Rescue armor in EG was much better than what they did with her in IM3.

[Frontier]

Pepper in Rescue armor in EG was much better than what they did with her in IM3.

Yeah, because at least then you can write off her combat capability as being the suit doing 99% of the work, although it's still pretty sudden that a civilian is suddenly piloting an Iron Man armor effortlessly out of nowhere.

[John Venus]

Tony didn't need much training to use the armor either. We only saw him training after he became Iron Man and blowing up terrorists multiple times. The suits are never shown to have a difficult to attain learning curve either. It's not like she was flinging the Cap shield and the AI does most of it's work anyway.

[Frontier]

Tony didn't need much training to use the armor either. We only saw him training after he became Iron Man and blowing up terrorists multiple times. The suits are never shown to have a difficult to attain learning curve either. It's not like she was flinging the Cap shield and the AI does most of it's work anyway.

He had an on-screen learning curve when he was building and using the Mark II. I know the AI was probably doing most of the work but it still felt a bit much seeing a civilian thrust into an end of the world scenario with very little build up.

Of course now we see Peter Parker thinking it's a great idea to bring his two high school friends to help him track down and contain a bunch of Multiversal villains. Guess it's not just an Arrowverse problem .

[John Venus]

That was a learning curve in building the suit. Not in using it.

I'm fine with Ned and MJ getting to be a part of Peter's adventures since they are rather underdeveloped and MCU Spider-Man movies rely too much on the spectacle of cross overs rather than build up on relationships between the main character and their supporting cast. As long as it doesn't reach Flash levels with the main character not being able to think for themselves, I'm fine.

[Frontier]

That was a learning curve in building the suit. Not in using it.

He learned how to fly with it at least, although I guess that's different than applying it to actual battle.

I'm fine with Ned and MJ getting to be a part of Peter's adventures since they are rather underdeveloped and MCU Spider-Man movies rely too much on the spectacle of cross overs rather than build up on relationships between the main character and their supporting cast. As long as it doesn't reach Flash levels with the main character not being able to think for themselves, I'm fine.

Peter's supporting cast definitely needs to be better developed but it once again shows an inability to divide his Peter Parker life from his Spider-Man life and there really isn't anything they've established with those two that has it make sense that Peter would bring them into this and possibly expose them to danger (and we see in the trailer that Michelle almost gets Gwen Stacy-ed).

[Arsenal]

If you trying to keep your people safe, leaving them with Strange while you hunt down the bad guys isn't necessarily an awful plan. Especially if Ned and MJ force themselves into helping Peter opposed to Peter bringing them in. Either way, odds are they'll be tucked away in Strange's compound while Peter does the real field work.

Odds are one (or both) gets captured when the villains break out of Strange's prison and that's how they end up at the statue of liberty.

[Frontier]

If you trying to keep your people safe, leaving them with Strange while you hunt down the bad guys isn't necessarily an awful plan. Especially if Ned and MJ force themselves into helping Peter opposed to Peter bringing them in. Either way, odds are they'll be tucked away in Strange's compound while Peter does the real field work.

Odds are one (or both) gets captured when the villains break out of Strange's prison and that's how they end up at the statue of liberty.

It looks like he willingly brings them into this for...reasons, although again putting them in close proximity to his hero work ends up getting them in danger one way or another .

[Witchfan]

Sony has committed itself to three more Spider-Man films with Tom Holland. Ticket sales began today and are great. I predict that No Way Home will have a $180 million opening weekend domestically, doubling Venom's opening.

[Kingdom X]

Sony has committed itself to three more Spider-Man films with Tom Holland. Ticket sales began today and are great. I predict that No Way Home will have a $180 million opening weekend domestically, doubling Venom's opening.

Has any other superhero had six solo movies in the same continuity? That’s a pretty huge commitment.