Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[John Venus]

I know how big Spider-man is. It's just people really didn't care for The Amazing Spider-man series and the first MCU Spider-man was big but not that big.

The last one hit big and cleaned out at the box office (I believe it made over a billion) but I'm surprised at the hype around this one.

I mean, even Kevin Feige said the movie getting "Avengers Endgame-level" attention which is interesting to say the least.

Basically, all the people who loved the previous Spider-Man movies are coming back to watch this. There are people who liked those movies but may not care for the MCU as a whole plus your regular MCU fans. Then there is the crossover appeal of two characters as dissimilar as Strange and Spider-Man being in one movie plus the appeal of seeing all three movie Spider-men on screen together.

We might gripe about details but a movie like this actually happening and with a strong possibility of being descent and entertaining is like something out of a wild dream.

Cumberbatch's comments around Multiverse of Madness are interesting and somewhat troubling.

It sounds like a lot of stuff going on and the worst thing that could happen would be a protagonist that is reactive to the plot.

But isn't Raimi still directing the movie? I thought it was supposed to be horror-tinged?

Strange has been more of a plot device since his first movie ended. His appearances in Thor Ragnarok, Infinity War, Endgame and No Way Home all seem to hinge on him making stuff happen for the sake of the story while Strange himself remained static as a character. That's got to get boring for someone like Cumberbatch after a while.

Nobody said it's not going to be horror tinged just that Strange himself seems to be getting lost in the mix in his own solo movie:

This movie is going to have to:
-follow up Wanda's plot about searching for her kids.
-introduced and get people to like America Chavez and unlike Hawkeye, this is a 2hr movie and not a 6 episode show.
-follow up Mordo's plot about wanting to kill all the magicians.
-introduce and set up a plausible threat like Shuma Gorath or Cthon or whatever they name the Lovecraftian horror they are going to fight.
-do right by fan favorite characters like Wong.

(I'll refrain from talking about any unconfirmed rumors about Professor X, Captain Carter or Wolverine showing up in the movie)

I should note that Winter Soldier and Ragnarok also had this many characters in their movies but managed to balance every one out. It helps that the titular character was the 'center' around which they built the story around. Ragnarok also had pretty extensive reshoots prior to it's release. Dr Strange 2 also had to deal with the pandemic which prevented them from shooting stuff they wanted hence the grueling six week reshoots. Hell, maybe Cumberbatch changes his mind after seeing the latest cut of the movie and we're all getting worried over nothing-that's also a possibility.

It's really depends on who is going to be moving the plot of the movie: Wanda searching for her kids? Mordo trying to murder all the magicians? Plucky new superhero America Chavez with her newly discovered super powers?

[charliehustle415]

Strange has been more of a plot device since his first movie ended. His appearances in Thor Ragnarok, Infinity War, Endgame and No Way Home all seem to hinge on him making stuff happen for the sake of the story while Strange himself remained static as a character. That's got to get boring for someone like Cumberbatch after a while.

This is a really great point, he is basically a new Fury for this phase.

He is basically doing everything to put the pieces together, the most character development that Strange ever got was in What If? and it was a variant Strange.

[GenericUsername]

At this point I'm hoping the plot to ITMOM makes any sense at all. Strange deserves his own film, with his own story. Especially since he hasn't even officially become the SS yet. They haven't gone into the Vishanti. A lot of his lore is just not there.

[chamber-music]

My worry about the strange sequel was always that the character and his supporting cast would get lost in the mix. With all these other characters and subplots being added to the movie I would not be surprised if some characters are short changed.

[MindofShadow]

At this point I'm hoping the plot to ITMOM makes any sense at all. Strange deserves his own film, with his own story. Especially since he hasn't even officially become the SS yet. They haven't gone into the Vishanti. A lot of his lore is just not there.

Which sucks because he is an easy character to spin away from the others and let him do his own thing. He has his own lore and villains and stuff. There is no reason for his second movie to be an ensemble thing.

Hell, we barely even got any real magic in his own first movie lol. It was weapons, artifacts, and a stone.

[John Venus]

I initially really liked the idea of Wanda co-starring with him in his second movie. It's the fact that they suddenly threw in America Chavez into the plot that's confusing me. Same with the fact that Riri is going to be in BP2.

Why did the solo movies turn into a launch pad for YA? Why can't they introduce them in Disney Plus shows?

[Frontier]

Strange has been more of a plot device since his first movie ended. His appearances in Thor Ragnarok, Infinity War, Endgame and No Way Home all seem to
hinge on him making stuff happen for the sake of the story while Strange himself remained static as a character. That's got to get boring for someone like Cumberbatch after a while.

Kind of sounds like how Strange usually works in guest appearances .

Although in all seriousness I think at least in IW/EG we saw how much more confident and capable he had become as a sorcerer, so there was development on that front, whereas NWH shows that he still has some of that arrogance that hasn't been completely kicked to the curb.

At this point I'm hoping the plot to ITMOM makes any sense at all. Strange deserves his own film, with his own story. Especially since he hasn't even officially become the SS yet. They haven't gone into the Vishanti. A lot of his lore is just not there.

My worry about the strange sequel was always that the character and his supporting cast would get lost in the mix. With all these other characters and subplots being added to the movie I would not be surprised if some characters are short changed.

It does feel kind of weird that they're promoting Wanda as the main female and female lead without even properly introducing Clea yet.

Kind of reminds me of how Black Widow took screentime that could've gone to Sharon Carter in the later Cap movies.

I initially really liked the idea of Wanda co-starring with him in his second movie. It's the fact that they suddenly threw in America Chavez into the plot that's confusing me. Same with the fact that Riri is going to be in BP2.

Why did the solo movies turn into a launch pad for YA? Why can't they introduce them in Disney Plus shows?

America makes sense because of the Multiverse aspect since that's part of her character. I guess the only other place to introduce her may have been Loki.

At this point the solo films are as much about promoting other characters and possible spinoffs as they are actually being solo movies. Like Carol's solo just got revamped into a trio movie to showcase Monica and Kamala, and she was the MCU's only female-led solo film star.

[Chris0013]

I wish that spoilers:

Yelena

end of spoilers had a little more presence in this episode.

[Gnostic]

Kevin Feige suggests that the Marvel films from the past 20+ years are canon to the MCU via multiverse.

One that now with the 80-year history of the comics, now we have a 20 plus history of the movies, and there are enough characters that we can start playing with it that way.

https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-fei...men-mcu-canon/

[Ascended]

Potentially an excellent tool in the narrative toolbox. Audiences love a multiverse these days, and this opens some fun doors.

There's just a sharp margin for error; finding the right balance between using the multiverse to enrich your story, and having it derail your story....seems like a tougher gig.

But until they screw it up, they got my support.

[Frontier]

I mean, it's all well and good to say that because they've established the Raimi films exist within the Multiverse but that doesn't mean they'll do anything with it past stuff like NWH or MoM.

Unless we get like a Crisis-level Secret Wars story.

[BlackClaw]

Kevin Feige suggests that the Marvel films from the past 20+ years are canon to the MCU via multiverse.



https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-fei...men-mcu-canon/

On one hand, this means that the Raimi films and FoX-Men films are canon via multiverse. But then you have those awful Fantastic Four movies from the past…

[Gnostic]

On one hand, this means that the Raimi films and FoX-Men films are canon via multiverse. But then you have those awful Fantastic Four movies from the past…

Ioan Gruffudd as The Maker would be pretty cool. He even said that he wanted to play a MCU villain a few years back.

[John Venus]

On one hand, this means that the Raimi films and FoX-Men films are canon via multiverse. But then you have those awful Fantastic Four movies from the past…

Hey, if they can make Hydra!Cap one of the funniest moments in a movie....

I mean, it's all well and good to say that because they've established the Raimi films exist within the Multiverse but that doesn't mean they'll do anything with it past stuff like NWH or MoM.

Unless we get like a Crisis-level Secret Wars story.

They are definitely going to do Secret Wars at some point.

Kevin Feige suggests that the Marvel films from the past 20+ years are canon to the MCU via multiverse.



https://www.cbr.com/marvel-kevin-fei...men-mcu-canon/

Good to know. That said, I am starting to get sick of the Multiverse. Can't wait for Secret Invasion and the Thunderbolts to show up.

Kind of sounds like how Strange usually works in guest appearances .

Although in all seriousness I think at least in IW/EG we saw how much more confident and capable he had become as a sorcerer, so there was development on that front, whereas NWH shows that he still has some of that arrogance that hasn't been completely kicked to the curb.

IW and EG at least showed us how far he's come in his skill set and made him closer to his comic book iteration. Thus far, nothing we've seen of him in NWH has made him look good. Even Ragnarok made him enigmatic like his comic book counterpart.

It does feel kind of weird that they're promoting Wanda as the main female and female lead without even properly introducing Clea yet.

Kind of reminds me of how Black Widow took screentime that could've gone to Sharon Carter in the later Cap movies.

America makes sense because of the Multiverse aspect since that's part of her character. I guess the only other place to introduce her may have been Loki.

Wanda in Dr Strange 2 is more like Hulk in Rangarok that Widow in TWS. As for Clea, at this point, it would probably make more sense to introduce her as Strange's successor rather than his love interest/fellow sorcerer in the MCU.

Widow has always been a Cap adjacent character especially in the Brubaker run and she served as a good foil for Steve. It's not Natasha's fault that she is more interesting than Sharon Carter. Sharon is so bland she probably thinks vanilla ice cream is too spicy.

At this point the solo films are as much about promoting other characters and possible spinoffs as they are actually being solo movies. Like Carol's solo just got revamped into a trio movie to showcase Monica and Kamala, and she was the MCU's only female-led solo film star.

Carol doesn't count as an example. Since Carol, Monica and Kamala are all part of the same franchise. Like how Cap, Bucky and Falcon are.

[GenericUsername]

It's not Natasha's fault that she is more interesting than Sharon Carter. Sharon is so bland she probably thinks vanilla ice cream is too spicy.

The MCU has not done right by Sharon. At all. It's annoying. I don't think they let Natasha live up to her potential either though. Even in her own movie, Yelena outshone her.