Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Gaastra]

Disney adds netflix shows to the canon timeline.

https://twitter.com/discussingfilm/s...21551202341263

[davetvs]

The last episode of Echo was gorgeous.

[Thirteen]

Clearest look at costumes from MADAME WEB yet...

[Ascended]

Do you think it's lame that studios and networks use the following tools in their storytelling:?

Time travel
Alternative Universes
Dreams/Visions
Clones/shapeshifter/LMDs

I mean, you just described half of science fiction, so......

[Frontier]

Clearest look at costumes from MADAME WEB yet...

She gets a suit!? Huh.

[Thirteen]

She gets a suit!? Huh.

I actually wonder if it's a dress or (more likely) a tight trenchcoat from the way the suit seems to be fitted. Either could be a reasonably faithful adaptation of the Madame Web look.

[Gaastra]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/new...2d2e16e2&ei=14

[Albert1981]

I mean, you just described half of science fiction, so......

Heh, yeah I know. I just think it would help Marvel if they simplified their sci-fi rules a bit. Like making it clear if you time travel to another dimension, you can NEVER come back to your main "timeline". That would add some stakes to these stories. I didn't enjoy the first season of the Loki series because people kept hanging around the TVA and talking about the nature time. Loki should be doing **** like inventing the Heimlich maneuver and teaching Michael Jackson how to Moonwalk as well trouncing the bad guys. That would have been really entertaining. Isn't that what time travel/multiverse stories are all about?

Look, I gave up on watching the MCU last year because I was getting bored with the storylines they were promoting. But I think a lot of the criticism of Echo is misguided and overblown (like it being unnecessary and pointless). I think that kind of criticism misses the point. I appreciate and respect Disney/Marvel pouring its considerable resources to promote characters from communities that have been marginalized in real-life. They don't have to do this. Sure, I had my problems with how Echo was introduced into the MCU and I thought it was unfair that Marvel execs put such a HUGE burden on an actress (who is basically a kid with no acting experience), but from my perspective, I feel their efforts are pretty sincere and well-meaning. And I also think it's actually touching to know that the groups that Marvel is targeting the show to appreciate and are inspired by what they are watching:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsess...ns-mcus-future

[Ascended]

Heh, yeah I know. I just think it would help Marvel if they simplified their sci-fi rules a bit

I guess? Feels like it's about as straight forward as time travel/multiverse theory gets, if you ask me. When you go left, a version of you breaks off into another timeline by going right. That new branch develops along its own path. If two branches start interacting too closely, with too much back-and-forth, they crash into each other and that's bad, that's an incursion. You don't want Kangs being born on the branches, because they'll start fighting each other.

The TVA monitor the timelines for threats (now) and keep an eye on Kangs, and Loki is holding all the branches in his Worlds Tree, providing stability. Time travel is moving up and down your branch, multiverse travel is going from one branch to another. It's the same rules the Ancient One explained in Endgame and Marvel hasn't broken them, at least that I've noticed.

Look, I gave up on watching the MCU last year because I was getting bored with the storylines they were promoting

.

Indeed, and I'm glad you're not supporting a product you weren't enjoying. Too many of us support this genre when we're unhappy with it, and all that does is tell publishers and their corporate overlords that you're satisfied enough with their output to pay them, so why should they change anything? I haven't loved all the MCU's stuff either, though that's always been the case with me and isn't some big new thing. In fact, the stuff I've enjoyed the least has been Strange 2 and Spidey 3, the big multiverse stories. But I didn't enjoy them because I felt like the plots we should've had (Mordo, no time Stone, Parker's revealed ID, friggin Daredevil!) were sacrificed for the greater saga, which should never be the case. A solo project shouldn't be derailed to tell 'big phase' stuff, the stories should naturally dovetail into and build on each other. I have the same problem with Civil War, honestly. I wanted a Cap movie, not an Avengers movie.

But I think a lot of the criticism of Echo is misguided and overblown (like it being unnecessary and pointless)

Haven't seen it yet, waiting for the weekend to binge it once the kids are in bed. Not surprised there's been excess negativity though, that's been the fashionable thing to do (not accusing you specifically of that). The MCU has absolutely tripped up lately and there's valid criticism to make and stuff Marvel needs to hear, but a lot of the time it just feels vindictive. Like the MCU used to be too popular to attack, but once the talking heads smelled a little blood in the water? Everything is awful and Marvel is dying!

That Wolverine mask does look damn good though. I never wanted to see that costume in live action but they pulled it off better than I thought anyone could.

[Albert1981]

I guess? Feels like it's about as straight forward as time travel/multiverse theory gets, if you ask me. When you go left, a version of you breaks off into another timeline by going right. That new branch develops along its own path. If two branches start interacting too closely, with too much back-and-forth, they crash into each other and that's bad, that's an incursion. You don't want Kangs being born on the branches, because they'll start fighting each other.

The TVA monitor the timelines for threats (now) and keep an eye on Kangs, and Loki is holding all the branches in his Worlds Tree, providing stability. Time travel is moving up and down your branch, multiverse travel is going from one branch to another. It's the same rules the Ancient One explained in Endgame and Marvel hasn't broken them, at least that I've noticed.

.

Indeed, and I'm glad you're not supporting a product you weren't enjoying. Too many of us support this genre when we're unhappy with it, and all that does is tell publishers and their corporate overlords that you're satisfied enough with their output to pay them, so why should they change anything? I haven't loved all the MCU's stuff either, though that's always been the case with me and isn't some big new thing. In fact, the stuff I've enjoyed the least has been Strange 2 and Spidey 3, the big multiverse stories. But I didn't enjoy them because I felt like the plots we should've had (Mordo, no time Stone, Parker's revealed ID, friggin Daredevil!) were sacrificed for the greater saga, which should never be the case. A solo project shouldn't be derailed to tell 'big phase' stuff, the stories should naturally dovetail into and build on each other. I have the same problem with Civil War, honestly. I wanted a Cap movie, not an Avengers movie.



Haven't seen it yet, waiting for the weekend to binge it once the kids are in bed. Not surprised there's been excess negativity though, that's been the fashionable thing to do (not accusing you specifically of that). The MCU has absolutely tripped up lately and there's valid criticism to make and stuff Marvel needs to hear, but a lot of the time it just feels vindictive. Like the MCU used to be too popular to attack, but once the talking heads smelled a little blood in the water? Everything is awful and Marvel is dying!

That Wolverine mask does look damn good though. I never wanted to see that costume in live action but they pulled it off better than I thought anyone could.

Your explanation of the rules of time travel/multiverses in the MCU make a lot of sense to me. You explained it quickly and succinctly in a way most folks would understand. I think the explanations in Endgame and Loki were WAY too long-winded and convoluted in my opinion. But wouldn't time travelling in your own timeline automatically create a parallel universe? You are not only going back in time, but actually going into another "dimension/reality". I thought Star Trek: Voyager (Timeless) did a really good job of describing this:



I haven't given up on the MCU entirely. I'm still indirectly supporting it by subscribing to Disney Plus (They have some awesome documentaries on there and I like the old MCU stuff). I wanna see any project that Rhodey or Banner get to star in. I think Cheadle and Ruffalo did a great job in their respective roles and I believe it's high time they have their own vehicles to star in. It's pointless to bitch about how the MCU is now "doomed". And without getting too political on here, a lot of the people doing the whining are proud members of the MAGAverse. And I frankly don't understand how they can whine about superhero fatigue but not say a WORD about MAGA fatigue. These specific critics keep saying they are getting tired of Marvel/DC movies (and how woke they've become), but at the same time still get boners when they hear people talk about "voter fraud" and "rigged elections"?! Like c'mon man. They have zero credibility here. Besides, nobody's forcing them to watch the MCU's projects. Do these people ENJOY being miserable? I was not a fan of Wakanda Forever and Loki Season One, but I don't think they were garbage. Recognizing the difference between a bad movie/show and a movie/show that just isn't really your jam is such a vital distinction that so few people seem to actually understand.

I probably will skip a lot of MCU stuff in the future, but I totally support Marvel's efforts to expand its roster to different kinds of demographics. I think it would be hilarious if they got the Silver Surfer to actually do some big wave surfing with Polynesian surfer bros in the Pacific. Cosmic Marvel meets Hawaii Five-0. How do you think Norrin Radd would look like in a grass skirt?

I love talking heads discussing the MCU. They are usually casual fans so I feel their perspectives can be really revealing. They are usually not nerds/geeks, and that portion of the fanbase needs more recognition from Marvel Studios in my opinion.

[Ascended]

Your explanation of the rules of time travel/multiverses in the MCU make a lot of sense to me. You explained it quickly and succinctly in a way most folks would understand.

Thanks.

But wouldn't time travelling in your own timeline automatically create a parallel universe? You are not only going back in time, but actually going into another "dimension/reality"

If you went back in time and started doing some crazy stuff, like killing hitler in his crib, then you'd be creating a bunch of new branches yes. But you'd have to intentionally be trying to change the history you know. The stuff that happened, that defined your branch, already had you in the past. As far as history is concerned you were supposed to be there. Go back in time and invest in Apple when it first goes public? No new branches, history remembers you as one of the early stock holders, and always has. Go back in time and try to get Steve Jobs to invent the iPod ten years early? Now you're creating branches. That's why Steve Rogers is able to live a whole life in the past with Peggy without creating branches and pulling the TVA down on him; he's not changing history as it happened (no saving JFK, no preventing 9/11), he's just living his life.

I haven't given up on the MCU entirely. I'm still indirectly supporting it by subscribing to Disney Plus (They have some awesome documentaries on there and I like the old MCU stuff). I wanna see any project that Rhodey or Banner get to star in.

If something looks good, watch it. If it doesn't look appealing, skip it. I wouldn't worry about doing 'the homework' and watching everything the MCU throws at you, any project you decide to watch should be able to drop the necessary exposition. You won't get all the context but you'll get whatever you need to understand the story you're watching.

I probably will skip a lot of MCU stuff in the future, but I totally support Marvel's efforts to expand its roster to different kinds of demographics.

And that's something I think we long term fans and nerds have to come to grips with. Not everything in the MCU is being made for us anymore. If it's poorly made that's one thing (like Strange 2), but if the problem is "Marvel made a young adult style show and I don't care for that genre" then it's a 'you' problem and not a Marvel problem; they're not trying to get you to watch that, they're trying to get your niece or daughter or little sister to.

How do you think Norrin Radd would look like in a grass skirt?

Better than I would, I'm sure.

[marhawkman]

Then you have the Terminator take. This is how it worked as of Sarah Conner Chronicles anyways.

Each time time travel happens the timeline gets over written like applying a coat of paint to a wall. There's just the one universe. No branching timelines. So you can't just return home. You can travel to the same year you left, but there's a strong chance it won't be the same place you left.

[Beantownbrown]

New Set Photos Emerge as Production on ‘Wonder Man’ Resumes

[Frontier]

New Set Photos Emerge as Production on ‘Wonder Man’ Resumes

So Simon ends up making a movie about himself? Is it before or after he gets his powers?

[Alan2099]

So Simon ends up making a movie about himself? Is it before or after he gets his powers?

It's possible he's making a movie about the fictional character Wonderman when he gets his powers and becomes Wonderman for real.