Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Chris0013]

Well the last Steve wasn't hers. Her Steve is basically gone.

The end of the episode where Steve flew the Hydra Stomper into the Red Room implied he might still be out there.

[Frontier]

The end of the episode where Steve flew the Hydra Stomper into the Red Room implied he might still be out there.

I kind of hope he bought it just to differentiate her from Steve and also to finally give us an episode with a more tragic ending.

[Albert1981]

Do you think it's lame that studios and networks use the following tools in their storytelling:?

Time travel
Alternative Universes
Dreams/Visions
Clones/shapeshifter/LMDs

I personally think it's NOT lame if there are CLEAR and DEFINITIVE rules on WHEN they CAN or CANNOT be used (MOST OF THE TIME). I think the MCU is doing that annoying comic book thing of differentiating between "timelines", "universes", "realities" and "dimensions". It's amazing that Marvel Studios has spent SO much time discussing how this shit works, and lots of folks STILL remain confused. That's not the audiences' fault. The blame lies with Marvel Studios. I'm actually shocked that the current saga is structured in a "comic book way". Lots of timelines, lots of characters, lots of resurrections and lots of storylines. I thought the success of the MCU was distilling and condensing stuff from the comics in a presentable and palatable manner for general audiences. Now I'm hearing talk about "85 years" of stories that are coming to screens (big and small) near you. I don't think the MCU will succeed in winning back fans if they continue with this approach. But I don't believe Marvel Studios will change their plans either. I would merge projects together and cancel others. Release fewer movies/shows and increased the time between releases. Simplify things. Sucks for the folks involved in the canned projects, but it might make watching MCU stuff less daunting for casual viewers again. It's clear from recent franchise box office returns, hardcore nerds/geeks are not enough to make these movies profitable. It's long past time to give up on an expansive comic book universe being portrayed in the movies/shows. However, I'm not convinced at all that Marvel Studios will slow the deluge of movies/shows after this year (though IATSE and Teamster strikes could slow things down again). I personally think the execs at Marvel are loath to "admit defeat" and will continue to "rework" projects in order to try to make things work. The only good decision Disney/Marvel has made lately is to release only one movie in 2024 in my opinion.

[Chris0013]

Do you think it's lame that studios and networks use the following tools in their storytelling:?

Time travel
Alternative Universes
Dreams/Visions
Clones/shapeshifter/LMDs

I personally think it's NOT lame if there are CLEAR and DEFINITIVE rules on WHEN they CAN or CANNOT be used (MOST OF THE TIME). I think the MCU is doing that annoying comic book thing of differentiating between "timelines", "universes", "realities" and "dimensions". It's amazing that Marvel Studios has spent SO much time discussing how this shit works, and lots of folks STILL remain confused. That's not the audiences' fault. The blame lies with Marvel Studios. I'm actually shocked that the current saga is structured in a "comic book way". Lots of timelines, lots of characters, lots of resurrections and lots of storylines. I thought the success of the MCU was distilling and condensing stuff from the comics in a presentable and palatable manner for general audiences. Now I'm hearing talk about "85 years" of stories that are coming to screens (big and small) near you. I don't think the MCU will succeed in winning back fans if they continue with this approach. But I don't believe Marvel Studios will change their plans either. I would merge projects together and cancel others. Release fewer movies/shows and increased the time between releases. Simplify things. Sucks for the folks involved in the canned projects, but it might make watching MCU stuff less daunting for casual viewers again. It's clear from recent franchise box office returns, hardcore nerds/geeks are not enough to make these movies profitable. It's long past time to give up on an expansive comic book universe being portrayed in the movies/shows. However, I'm not convinced at all that Marvel Studios will slow the deluge of movies/shows after this year (though IATSE and Teamster strikes could slow things down again). I personally think the execs at Marvel are loath to "admit defeat" and will continue to "rework" projects in order to try to make things work. The only good decision Disney/Marvel has made lately is to release only one movie in 2024 in my opinion.

I think the multiverse is an issue post Endgame for the MCU. It over-complicates the story telling. I think there are enough stories to tell without bringing in alternate realities.

[CTTT]

I like the alaternate realities. We wouldn't have What If? otherwise.

[Chris0013]

I like the alaternate realities. We wouldn't have What If? otherwise.

I like What If...I am talking the main movies and TV series stuff.

[vitaminbee]

I think things don't all need to be connected. There are many universes/timelines (can anyone tell me the difference? It seems like sometimes they are different and sometimes the same) and like... let things be great on their own.

[Tofali]

the movies must be connected but i don't care about the rest if they do their own thing.

[CTTT]

some of you guys talk about being tired of the multiverse concept already and we've barely gotten into it with Loki and No Way Home and wouldn't even begin to see how all of that connects until the next Avengers movie. So...what exactly are you tired of?

[Jackraow21]

My God...

DEADPOOL 3: A First Look At Wolverine's Comic-Accurate Mask Appears To Have Leaked Online
https://comicbookmovie.com/deadpool/...8745#gs.2t8iek



It's... beautiful. *cries tears of joy*

[Frontier]

my god...

deadpool 3: A first look at wolverine's comic-accurate mask appears to have leaked online
https://comicbookmovie.com/deadpool/...8745#gs.2t8iek



it's... Beautiful. *cries tears of joy*

they did it!!!

[Albert1981]

To me, multiverse/time travel stories have way too much exposition in them. I acknowledge these concepts are really hard to explain. Even the best NOVA episodes struggle with this. But if they simplify things it would help immensely. I think most people understand the idea that people who travel back in time to change the past, will change the future (and the future they came from would therefore no longer exist). The act of traveling back in time creates another timeline/universe where changes you make there would affect its future. That explanation is quick and relatively easy to follow. Folks time travel by not just going back in time but also end up going to a different place. And there should be costs for doing so. And rules on when this can and cannot happen. I think Star Trek, Stargate and even Quantum Leap did a MUCH better job of explaining these things than Marvel has done so far. That definitely creates stakes in my opinion.

Part of me wishes that Marvel movies and shows are separate from one another. Because viewers would be required to do WAY less homework to watch them and they can pick and choose what they wanna watch without missing out on some bigger picture. The only problem with that is that some characters will not interact with one another and there is no "bigger picture". But I would be willing to accept that if it mean more streamlined and coherent storytelling. It's annoying that NCIS and Law & Order have so many spinoffs, but you don't have to watch every NCIS and Law & Order show in order to enjoy the one you choose to watch. The MCU is far more interconnected to ignore too many shows/movies in my view.

I definitely miss the days when the MCU was dominating pop culture. As I said before, stuff like the NFL and true podcasts/documentaries have done a WAY better job of engaging audiences than superhero movies/shows in the past three years:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/02/m...-football.html

"Football is, by far, the most popular thing on TV. Last year, according to Nielsen, 83 of the 100 most-viewed telecasts were N.F.L. games, including 19 of the top 20."

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/08/o...rue-crime.html

"Last year, the Hollywood Reporter alerted its readers to “30 True-Crime Series to Binge Right Now.” As I write this, nearly half of Apple’s top 20 podcasts in the United States are devoted to true crime, and the internet is saturated with recommendations for the best new true crime books to read."

Even country music is getting hot on Billboard's pop charts lately:

https://www.insideradio.com/free/dis...gh%20September.

"From 2017 to 2022 only 2% of the most popular songs in the U.S. in any given week were country songs, according to Billboard’s all-genre Hot 100 chart. In 2023, country songs accounted for 25% of the songs found on the Hot 100 through September."

There is no such thing as NFL, country music, or true crime "fatigue" at the moment despite their mass saturation. If Deadpool 3, Venom 3 and Joker 2 bomb later this year, I think superhero fatigue will seriously be considered a thing. I'm sad to say to this but a lot of fans who have stopped watching MCU films and series are NEVER coming back. Which is unfortunate because not all of it is bad. I definitely feel that morale and confidence at Marvel Studios is at rock bottom.

Even non-geek/non-nerd publications like Rolling Stone and the New York Times are mocking the MCU at this point:

https://www.rollingstone.com/tv-movi...op-1234871043/

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/27/m...ue-marvel.html

I understand Marvel execs getting defensive at the criticism, but a lot of it is justified. 2023 was an AWFUL year for superheroes (and several other franchises). I watched EVERY episode of What If Season One IMMEDIATELY when they came out. I only just found out that Season 2 is already over! It's not too late to fix things, but it's getting late.

[gurkle]

some of you guys talk about being tired of the multiverse concept already and we've barely gotten into it with Loki and No Way Home and wouldn't even begin to see how all of that connects until the next Avengers movie. So...what exactly are you tired of?

I think the issue is that two of the recent big sequels, Doctor Strange and Ant-Man, did stories that were built around elements of the multiversal story they're setting up (with Strange mentioning the word "multiverse" every five minutes and Ant-Man being about Kang). I thought both of those movies were worse off for it and I would have preferred them to do regular Doctor Strange and Ant-Man sequels instead.

Not everyone agrees with me on one or both movies, but when people say they're "tired of the multiverse" I suspect they're often expressing disappointment in one or both of those movies.

I'm a bit of an extremist on this point because I think Hickman's Avengers is the most boring superhero comic ever (but I like his Fantastic Four and X-Men). Even among all the other things I disliked in Multiverse of Madness, when they mentioned "incursions" my heart sank. So when I say I'm tired of the multiverse it means that I'm not interested in what they seem to be setting up.

[Gnostic]

when they mentioned "incursions" my heart sank.

Speaking of "incursions", I think What If gave us a first look of what an incursion was like with the 1602 episode. So I don't think Secret Wars is going to be to much like the comic version.

[Chris0013]

some of you guys talk about being tired of the multiverse concept already and we've barely gotten into it with Loki and No Way Home and wouldn't even begin to see how all of that connects until the next Avengers movie. So...what exactly are you tired of?

Not so much as being tired of it.....but don't believe it should have been a multi-phase premise in the first place. Far From Home as a one off story is amazing. However Multiverse of Madness was terrible. What If and Loki work as side stories...What If because it is outside of continuity and Loki as a story of Loki finding what his "Glorious Purpose" was but also knowing that he is most likely never showing up again.

Buy to me it over-complicates the entire phase with time travel and alternate realities being common place.