Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Anthony W]

I can't wait to not watch it.

[mace11]

What 4 movies in 15 years have main female leads?

Also the main main lead in eternals team movie is female.

[Android 17]

Interesting ideas here. To voice a counter argument, yes, perhaps only a small percentage of the movie goers are comic book readers. However, would the rest of the audience have felt slighted if a male Norin Radd was chosen as Silver Surfer as some fans are now? Would they have known the difference? The Silver Surfer's story could still be told as it stands now and whichever gender, race, ethnicity, etc. watches could still be inspired by Norrin Radd's story. Because Norrin Radd's story is a great story. And this great story could finally be told within the MCU.

As for the changes, Star Lord's personality or Scott Lang being the main Ant Man are somewhat different then the Marvel comics. But when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, sex, ethnicity, etc., those are big things. They're big markers of identity. People still group ourselves as either this or not this. And they still feel left out when someone is not represented.

These are things to consider where some fans are coming from.

HOWEVER

This isn't the Marvel Universe. This is the MCU. It's different and so there's room for creativity. The MCU has played around with character origins and identities and y'know what? They have been great. Star Lord being more comedic has been iconic. So has Scott Lang as Ant Man. Having Maria Rambeau play Binary instead of Carol Danvers is an interesting twist and I'd like to see where that goes. Moreover, there is precedent for something like this. As I mentioned before in a previous post, there have been What If? and Earth X which had a female Silver Surfer. If more people, girls, boys, whomever, are inspired to learn more about Silver Surfer because of Ms. Garner's performance, that's a good thing. If more fans feel empowered because of this, that's a good thing. Indeed, I see this with a lot of young kids today whenever they wear their Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen t-shirts. It makes me happy to see them read these characters along with their MHA, Demon Slayer, and Jujitsu Kaisen, Furthermore, whenever non-comic book folk watch the movies, they usually ask me about them and I give them a little knowledge of the subject. That makes me happy.

And while fans can still feel deeply attached to their identities, they can also recognize that there are qualities that go beyond identity. If this Silver Surfer can convey that sense of wonder and contemplation of the universe, as well as blast stuff with the Power Cosmic, then I'd definitely support that.

So, ultimately, there are many ideas to consider here. Personally, though I have my preferences, I'm open. When the presentation of the actors for the new slate of MCU films happens at San Diego Comic Con this July or when the new Fantastic Four film comes out, I'll see this new story.

And I'll be willing to defend it too.

You’re making too much damn sense.

Awesome post.

[marhawkman]

Interesting ideas here. To voice a counter argument, yes, perhaps only a small percentage of the movie goers are comic book readers. However, would the rest of the audience have felt slighted if a male Norin Radd was chosen as Silver Surfer as some fans are now? Would they have known the difference? The Silver Surfer's story could still be told as it stands now and whichever gender, race, ethnicity, etc. watches could still be inspired by Norrin Radd's story. Because Norrin Radd's story is a great story. And this great story could finally be told within the MCU.

As for the changes, Star Lord's personality or Scott Lang being the main Ant Man are somewhat different then the Marvel comics. But when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, sex, ethnicity, etc., those are big things. They're big markers of identity. People still group ourselves as either this or not this. And they still feel left out when someone is not represented.

These are things to consider where some fans are coming from.

HOWEVER

This isn't the Marvel Universe. This is the MCU. It's different and so there's room for creativity. The MCU has played around with character origins and identities and y'know what? They have been great. Star Lord being more comedic has been iconic. So has Scott Lang as Ant Man. Having Maria Rambeau play Binary instead of Carol Danvers is an interesting twist and I'd like to see where that goes. Moreover, there is precedent for something like this. As I mentioned before in a previous post, there have been What If? and Earth X which had a female Silver Surfer. If more people, girls, boys, whomever, are inspired to learn more about Silver Surfer because of Ms. Garner's performance, that's a good thing. If more fans feel empowered because of this, that's a good thing. Indeed, I see this with a lot of young kids today whenever they wear their Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen t-shirts. It makes me happy to see them read these characters along with their MHA, Demon Slayer, and Jujitsu Kaisen, Furthermore, whenever non-comic book folk watch the movies, they usually ask me about them and I give them a little knowledge of the subject. That makes me happy.

And while fans can still feel deeply attached to their identities, they can also recognize that there are qualities that go beyond identity. If this Silver Surfer can convey that sense of wonder and contemplation of the universe, as well as blast stuff with the Power Cosmic, then I'd definitely support that.

So, ultimately, there are many ideas to consider here. Personally, though I have my preferences, I'm open. When the presentation of the actors for the new slate of MCU films happens at San Diego Comic Con this July or when the new Fantastic Four film comes out, I'll see this new story.

And I'll be willing to defend it too.

The problem is if it becomes unrecognizable. Especially when it adds narrative work. Why have Rambeau become Binary instead of Photon? You can skip steps in explaining with Photon because people can just fill in the blanks with stuff from the comic books... IF your movie stays close enough to the comics. But doing something completely new... requires you to explain everything or it won't make sense.

[Vegeta]

This



Agreed. I was kind of hoping they'd start small with the Fantastic Four. Come on, what's wrong with Mole Man? They could have made him a great live action 'Underminer' Galactus right out the gate? He's like a Thanos level threat. Though I'd imagine if he appears it would be handled like Dormammu. I just hope they focus on the Fantastic Four characters and not prioritize universe building over them. It didn't do any favors for Ant-Man's story after all.

Mole Man would've been great with all the kaiju he brings along with him. Godzilla is pretty popular right now.

[phonogram12]

Interesting ideas here. To voice a counter argument, yes, perhaps only a small percentage of the movie goers are comic book readers. However, would the rest of the audience have felt slighted if a male Norin Radd was chosen as Silver Surfer as some fans are now? Would they have known the difference? The Silver Surfer's story could still be told as it stands now and whichever gender, race, ethnicity, etc. watches could still be inspired by Norrin Radd's story. Because Norrin Radd's story is a great story. And this great story could finally be told within the MCU.

As for the changes, Star Lord's personality or Scott Lang being the main Ant Man are somewhat different then the Marvel comics. But when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, sex, ethnicity, etc., those are big things. They're big markers of identity. People still group ourselves as either this or not this. And they still feel left out when someone is not represented.

These are things to consider where some fans are coming from.

HOWEVER

This isn't the Marvel Universe. This is the MCU. It's different and so there's room for creativity. The MCU has played around with character origins and identities and y'know what? They have been great. Star Lord being more comedic has been iconic. So has Scott Lang as Ant Man. Having Maria Rambeau play Binary instead of Carol Danvers is an interesting twist and I'd like to see where that goes. Moreover, there is precedent for something like this. As I mentioned before in a previous post, there have been What If? and Earth X which had a female Silver Surfer. If more people, girls, boys, whomever, are inspired to learn more about Silver Surfer because of Ms. Garner's performance, that's a good thing. If more fans feel empowered because of this, that's a good thing. Indeed, I see this with a lot of young kids today whenever they wear their Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen t-shirts. It makes me happy to see them read these characters along with their MHA, Demon Slayer, and Jujitsu Kaisen, Furthermore, whenever non-comic book folk watch the movies, they usually ask me about them and I give them a little knowledge of the subject. That makes me happy.

And while fans can still feel deeply attached to their identities, they can also recognize that there are qualities that go beyond identity. If this Silver Surfer can convey that sense of wonder and contemplation of the universe, as well as blast stuff with the Power Cosmic, then I'd definitely support that.

So, ultimately, there are many ideas to consider here. Personally, though I have my preferences, I'm open. When the presentation of the actors for the new slate of MCU films happens at San Diego Comic Con this July or when the new Fantastic Four film comes out, I'll see this new story.

And I'll be willing to defend it too.

Yep. All of this. In it's entirety.

[Gaastra]

Interesting ideas here. To voice a counter argument, yes, perhaps only a small percentage of the movie goers are comic book readers. However, would the rest of the audience have felt slighted if a male Norin Radd was chosen as Silver Surfer as some fans are now? Would they have known the difference? The Silver Surfer's story could still be told as it stands now and whichever gender, race, ethnicity, etc. watches could still be inspired by Norrin Radd's story. Because Norrin Radd's story is a great story. And this great story could finally be told within the MCU.

As for the changes, Star Lord's personality or Scott Lang being the main Ant Man are somewhat different then the Marvel comics. But when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, sex, ethnicity, etc., those are big things. They're big markers of identity. People still group ourselves as either this or not this. And they still feel left out when someone is not represented.

These are things to consider where some fans are coming from.

HOWEVER

This isn't the Marvel Universe. This is the MCU. It's different and so there's room for creativity. The MCU has played around with character origins and identities and y'know what? They have been great. Star Lord being more comedic has been iconic. So has Scott Lang as Ant Man. Having Maria Rambeau play Binary instead of Carol Danvers is an interesting twist and I'd like to see where that goes. Moreover, there is precedent for something like this. As I mentioned before in a previous post, there have been What If? and Earth X which had a female Silver Surfer. If more people, girls, boys, whomever, are inspired to learn more about Silver Surfer because of Ms. Garner's performance, that's a good thing. If more fans feel empowered because of this, that's a good thing. Indeed, I see this with a lot of young kids today whenever they wear their Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen t-shirts. It makes me happy to see them read these characters along with their MHA, Demon Slayer, and Jujitsu Kaisen, Furthermore, whenever non-comic book folk watch the movies, they usually ask me about them and I give them a little knowledge of the subject. That makes me happy.

And while fans can still feel deeply attached to their identities, they can also recognize that there are qualities that go beyond identity. If this Silver Surfer can convey that sense of wonder and contemplation of the universe, as well as blast stuff with the Power Cosmic, then I'd definitely support that.

So, ultimately, there are many ideas to consider here. Personally, though I have my preferences, I'm open. When the presentation of the actors for the new slate of MCU films happens at San Diego Comic Con this July or when the new Fantastic Four film comes out, I'll see this new story.

And I'll be willing to defend it too.

Bingo. Great way of putting it.

[Frontier]

Also the main main lead in eternals team movie is female.

They so dropped the ball with Sersi.

Interesting ideas here. To voice a counter argument, yes, perhaps only a small percentage of the movie goers are comic book readers. However, would the rest of the audience have felt slighted if a male Norin Radd was chosen as Silver Surfer as some fans are now? Would they have known the difference? The Silver Surfer's story could still be told as it stands now and whichever gender, race, ethnicity, etc. watches could still be inspired by Norrin Radd's story. Because Norrin Radd's story is a great story. And this great story could finally be told within the MCU.

As for the changes, Star Lord's personality or Scott Lang being the main Ant Man are somewhat different then the Marvel comics. But when it comes to race, gender, sexuality, sex, ethnicity, etc., those are big things. They're big markers of identity. People still group ourselves as either this or not this. And they still feel left out when someone is not represented.

These are things to consider where some fans are coming from.

HOWEVER

This isn't the Marvel Universe. This is the MCU. It's different and so there's room for creativity. The MCU has played around with character origins and identities and y'know what? They have been great. Star Lord being more comedic has been iconic. So has Scott Lang as Ant Man. Having Maria Rambeau play Binary instead of Carol Danvers is an interesting twist and I'd like to see where that goes. Moreover, there is precedent for something like this. As I mentioned before in a previous post, there have been What If? and Earth X which had a female Silver Surfer. If more people, girls, boys, whomever, are inspired to learn more about Silver Surfer because of Ms. Garner's performance, that's a good thing. If more fans feel empowered because of this, that's a good thing. Indeed, I see this with a lot of young kids today whenever they wear their Miles Morales and Spider-Gwen t-shirts. It makes me happy to see them read these characters along with their MHA, Demon Slayer, and Jujitsu Kaisen, Furthermore, whenever non-comic book folk watch the movies, they usually ask me about them and I give them a little knowledge of the subject. That makes me happy.

And while fans can still feel deeply attached to their identities, they can also recognize that there are qualities that go beyond identity. If this Silver Surfer can convey that sense of wonder and contemplation of the universe, as well as blast stuff with the Power Cosmic, then I'd definitely support that.

So, ultimately, there are many ideas to consider here. Personally, though I have my preferences, I'm open. When the presentation of the actors for the new slate of MCU films happens at San Diego Comic Con this July or when the new Fantastic Four film comes out, I'll see this new story.

And I'll be willing to defend it too.

I think it's fair that it's a different universe/interpretation that doesn't need to be a 1-to-1 recreation of the comics, setting aside the argument as to how much direct fidelity it needs or owes to the comics, though I don't think changing something or doing something differently compared to the comics should always be seen as a net positive.

Personally I don't think Star-Lord needed to be a comedic manchild (which hurt the comics), I love Scott but I also love Hank Pym and having Scott ended up getting us stuck with Hope Van Dyne and an older Janet, I feel like Binary as a Carol supercharged form is more interesting than Maria Rambeau, and I also think the Silver Surfer deserves to be presented faithfully in the comics (as I do most comic book characters).

Although considering the character is universally known as male, I wonder if the long-term plan is to just have a male version post-Secret Wars because it would probably be the most out-of-synch the MCU has been with the comics in a while. Unless they boot out Norinn and give us a female Surfer for more forced synergy.

[Tien Long]

Hi all. Ha, thank you for these comments. There are many sides to consider. At the very least, they can be acknowledged.

The problem is if it becomes unrecognizable. Especially when it adds narrative work. Why have Rambeau become Binary instead of Photon? You can skip steps in explaining with Photon because people can just fill in the blanks with stuff from the comic books... IF your movie stays close enough to the comics. But doing something completely new... requires you to explain everything or it won't make sense.

Creating something new can be a hassle. Explaining to my non-comic book friends the differences between Norrin Radd and Shalla Bal from the MCU and comics will be a lot. However, I've done it in the past with other characters like Nick Fury. As I mentioned before, it made me happy to explain that.

If we're talking about the complications of a new movie, maybe it will graft Norrin Radd's story to Shalla Bal. The only change there would be a couple of names. Or maybe Norrin Radd will die heroically and Shalla Bal will be inspired by his sacrifice to be the Silver Surfer. Or maybe the movie will fake us all out and have Norrin Radd and Shalla Bal as dual Silver Surfers. Or maybe the story will be skipped altogether and just have Shalla Bal come to Earth to herald Galactus and blow stuff up with the Power Cosmic.

Or maybe this. Or maybe that.

There are a lot of maybe's right now. I don't want to speculate. I'm just hopeful that we'll get to see a good story with the Silver Surfer.

[Tien Long]

They so dropped the ball with Sersi.

I think it's fair that it's a different universe/interpretation that doesn't need to be a 1-to-1 recreation of the comics, setting aside the argument as to how much direct fidelity it needs or owes to the comics, though I don't think changing something or doing something differently compared to the comics should always be seen as a net positive.

Personally I don't think Star-Lord needed to be a comedic manchild (which hurt the comics), I love Scott but I also love Hank Pym and having Scott ended up getting us stuck with Hope Van Dyne and an older Janet, I feel like Binary as a Carol supercharged form is more interesting than Maria Rambeau, and I also think the Silver Surfer deserves to be presented faithfully in the comics (as I do most comic book characters).

Although considering the character is universally known as male, I wonder if the long-term plan is to just have a male version post-Secret Wars because it would probably be the most out-of-synch the MCU has been with the comics in a while. Unless they boot out Norinn and give us a female Surfer for more forced synergy.

I've thought about that. MCU is MCU and the comics are the comics. I'm good with that distinction. If there were synergy between the two and suddenly Shalla Bal became the new Silver Surfer in the comics, I'll be honest, that would hurt. It would take some time for me to warm up to it, but yeah it would hurt. However, not everything has become synergistic. Kang in the comics is still Caucasian. Taskmaster is still Tony Masters.

So all I can say is we'll see.

[Frontier]

Hi all. Ha, thank you for these comments. There are many sides to consider. At the very least, they can be acknowledged.



Creating something new can be a hassle. Explaining to my non-comic book friends the differences between Norrin Radd and Shalla Bal from the MCU and comics will be a lot. However, I've done it in the past with other characters like Nick Fury. As I mentioned before, it made me happy to explain that.

If we're talking about the complications of a new movie, maybe it will graft Norrin Radd's story to Shalla Bal. The only change there would be a couple of names. Or maybe Norrin Radd will die heroically and Shalla Bal will be inspired by his sacrifice to be the Silver Surfer. Or maybe the movie will fake us all out and have Norrin Radd and Shalla Bal as dual Silver Surfers. Or maybe the story will be skipped altogether and just have Shalla Bal come to Earth to herald Galactus and blow stuff up with the Power Cosmic.

Or maybe this. Or maybe that.

There are a lot of maybe's right now. I don't want to speculate. I'm just hopeful that we'll get to see a good story with the Silver Surfer.

I'd rather not treat two characters so interchangeably.

I've thought about that. MCU is MCU and the comics are the comics. I'm good with that distinction. If there were synergy between the two and suddenly Shalla Bal became the new Silver Surfer in the comics, I'll be honest, that would hurt. It would take some time for me to warm up to it, but yeah it would hurt. However, not everything has become synergistic. Kang in the comics is still Caucasian. Taskmaster is still Tony Masters.

So all I can say is we'll see.

Honestly I've never seen a case where synergy in the comics didn't feel at least a little forced.

[marhawkman]

Creating something new can be a hassle. Explaining to my non-comic book friends the differences between Norrin Radd and Shalla Bal from the MCU and comics will be a lot. However, I've done it in the past with other characters like Nick Fury. As I mentioned before, it made me happy to explain that.

MCU Fury was easy... he's actually the son of the classic one. IE Nick Fury jr. Which is totally a thing in Ultimates.

There are a lot of maybe's right now. I don't want to speculate. I'm just hopeful that we'll get to see a good story with the Silver Surfer.

Seems unlikely to me, but we'll see.

[Doom'nGloom]

I think there is a little hypocrisy at play here at least if I speak for myself. We are usually more accepting of changes when they are done to characters that we don't have a strong attachment to. I'm not against Shalla being Silver Surfer as long as they give her Norrin's personality and philosophical outlook on life. However if a similar change was done to, say, Doom then I'd have different opinions about the matter. I guess how open we are to change depends heavily on how invested we are in the character and the property. As for the general audience, I don't think they are that invested in Norrin as the Silver Surfer so speaking from a strictly business perspective, I think all Disney needs is one strong showing to make most people accept Shalla as the Silver Surfer. How that affects comics is a different matter entirely and it's mostly the result of comic book creatives being cheap and lazy, not the decisions of movie people.

[Frontier]

I think there is a little hypocrisy at play here at least if I speak for myself. We are usually more accepting of changes when they are done to characters that we don't have a strong attachment to. I'm not against Shalla being Silver Surfer as long as they give her Norrin's personality and philosophical outlook on life. However if a similar change was done to, say, Doom then I'd have different opinions about the matter. I guess how open we are to change depends heavily on how invested we are in the character and the property. As for the general audience, I don't think they are that invested in Norrin as the Silver Surfer so speaking from a strictly business perspective, I think all Disney needs is one strong showing to make most people accept Shalla as the Silver Surfer. How that affects comics is a different matter entirely and it's mostly the result of comic book creatives being cheap and lazy, not the decisions of movie people.

Honestly that would make me dislike it more because then why not just use Norrin?

[Doom'nGloom]

Honestly that would make me dislike it more because then why not just use Norrin?

I dunno. Correct me if I'm wrong but your posts on various threads on this site make me think that you like it best when adaptations stay as close as possible to the source material at least in terms of characters and characterization. The truth is comic book readers are a small percentage of the general audience which don't have a concrete idea of who the Silver Surfer is. When MCU makes a decision it is in service of maximizing their profits or at least that's what they think. A female Silver Surfer may not be that appealing to a comic book reader but we don't know what the average Joe on the street thinks and that's the guy Disney is going after. How succesful they are in their attempt we'll only know once the movie comes out.