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  1. #6856
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalComics View Post
    You can say this in a mocking tone all you want, but that doesn't make it untrue.
    You can say it in a mocking tone, you can say it in a respectful tone. It's still complete incel BS.

  2. #6857
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MindofShadow View Post
    So... which "known" god dies so this is somewhat personal to thor anyway. I mean. Zeus is F'd but we just met him, who cares hes a red shirt lol. I can't seem them killing Valkryie so... who gonna die man? Its the God Butcher, he has to butcher. Too bad they killed off almost all of Thor's supporting cast already. What is Sif doing lol?
    It really puts into perspective how much they screwed up Thors' supporting cast that the only relevant Asgardian character left is Valkyrie and she didn't even show up until the third movie.

  3. #6858

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestro 216 View Post
    If you feel like this and don't like these movies you can not watch them.
    You can think like this all you want, but the problem is that these adaptions become the defining versions to the public. As some people said in the thread a few pages back. And I have an interest in maintaining we speak the same language if we're talking about media I love. And it becomes the Tower of Babel when I'm speaking about a character and the masses think I'm talking about a radically different character. Marvel's producers have a duty to faithfully adapt the comics as much as it makes sense. But they're letting their hubris and sensibilities with regard to politics undermine that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    You can say it in a mocking tone, you can say it in a respectful tone. It's still complete incel BS.
    All you had to do was tell me how my assertion was untrue. But you couldn't. So, you resort to ad hominem.

  4. #6859

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalComics View Post
    You can think like this all you want, but the problem is that these adaptions become the defining versions to the public. As some people said in the thread a few pages back. And I have an interest in maintaining we speak the same language if we're talking about media I love. And it becomes the Tower of Babel when I'm speaking about a character and the masses think I'm talking about a radically different character. Marvel's producers have a duty to faithfully adapt the comics as much as it makes sense. But they're letting their hubris and sensibilities with regard to politics undermine that.

    All you had to do was tell me how my assertion was untrue. But you couldn't. So, you resort to ad hominem.
    What's political about having different ethnicities, women, and lgbtqi+ people in a movie? They're people. People attacking inclusion as a conspiracy is fear-mongering to keep a status quo that does harm to these communities and just creates radicalization because it makes people think that the world is attacking them and they have a need to "fight back."

    I hope this damaging mentality doesn't pass down to the newer generations. The reason there were less minorities in media before is because people had prejudices and bigotry was very normalized.

    Also, it's a movie. No one is forcing you to drive to the movie theater and spend your money to watch these things. It's just a suggestion, not a command.

  5. #6860

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    There is a glaring difference between using diverse characters in an organic manner and raceswapping (or changing any other element to be higher on the progressive stack) characters, turning character codenames into mantles to give a character a sloppy second, and skipping over great characters to give lousy characters large roles because they are of the right group. It is entirely politics that this would even be thought of when planning to adapt a movie or TV show from comics. These producers put it first because they think it's more important than faithful adaptions. They think they're smarter and better people than the comics creators. It's pure arrogance.

  6. #6861
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalComics View Post
    You can think like this all you want, but the problem is that these adaptions become the defining versions to the public. As some people said in the thread a few pages back. And I have an interest in maintaining we speak the same language if we're talking about media I love. And it becomes the Tower of Babel when I'm speaking about a character and the masses think I'm talking about a radically different character. Marvel's producers have a duty to faithfully adapt the comics as much as it makes sense. But they're letting their hubris and sensibilities with regard to politics undermine that.
    1. That's how stories work. From Greek myths, to Robin Hood legends, to Sherlock Holmes stories, they all get retold and updated by the audience. Stories grow and change through time as the people telling them change. Superman started as a SJW who couldn't fly and busted slum lords and war profiteers. Times change, characters change, and stories change.

    2. The idea that producers are duty bound to be completely faithful is ludicrous. They are adapting a serial publication that ran for years, if not decades into a 2 hour movie. The change in medium are form change the overall story.

    3. You are acting as if the original stories were sacred texts handed down free from any flaw. This is incorrect. The majority of comics publishing deliberately avoided PoC and LBGTQIA+ characters in fear of angering Southern distributors. They were also subject to the Comics Code Authority, an outside agency that regularly censored the publisher. Refusing to include diverse characters is simply following the outdated political atmosphere of when the stories were originally published.

    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalComics View Post
    All you had to do was tell me how my assertion was untrue. But you couldn't. So, you resort to ad hominem.
    I was clearly referring to the arguments being made. If you feel that your identity is the same as the argument, then that's on you.

  7. #6862
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    3. You are acting as if the original stories were sacred texts handed down free from any flaw. This is incorrect. The majority of comics publishing deliberately avoided PoC and LBGTQIA+ characters in fear of angering Southern distributors. They were also subject to the Comics Code Authority, an outside agency that regularly censored the publisher. Refusing to include diverse characters is simply following the outdated political atmosphere of when the stories were originally published.
    This is the one. It's hilarious when some "fans" pretend s though these characters were created as straight, white men "just because." As though the political climate of the time had no bearing smh

  8. #6863

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Superman started as a SJW
    Not even close. Social justice as a concept is antithetical to what Superman ever did. If he were an SJW, he would have been fighting people who are part of a group that's labelled oppressors despite their individual actions and wouldn't fight criminals who fell into the oppressed group or. Or saving people who happen to be a part of a group that critical theorists consider to be oppresors. Fighting bad people, that just so happened to be in the groups SJWs don't like, doesn't make him an SJW.

  9. #6864
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicalComics View Post
    Not even close. Social justice as a concept is antithetical to what Superman ever did. If he were an SJW, he would have been fighting people who are part of a group that's labelled oppressors despite their individual actions and wouldn't fight criminals who fell into the oppressed group or. Or saving people who happen to be a part of a group that critical theorists consider to be oppresors. Fighting bad people, that just so happened to be in the groups SJWs don't like, doesn't make him an SJW.
    Nope. It's clear you don't actually understand Superman, social justice, or the history of comics and movies. I would elaborate further, but it's clear you won't listen to anything that contradicts your worldview.

  10. #6865

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rincewind View Post
    Nope. It's clear you don't actually understand Superman, social justice, or the history of comics and movies. I would elaborate further, but it's clear you won't listen to anything that contradicts your worldview.
    I do understand. But I realize you don't have an argument and wish not to have a debate due to that purpose. That's alright.

  11. #6866
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    So, yeah, fun discussion.....

    Thought the Thor trailer was fun. Looks like Waititi making another Thor movie. Impressive visuals. Needed more space goats.

    As for the question of which god is gonna be butchered by Gorr (before y'all got distracted with politics), the obvious answer is Jane. I think (?) it's been said that her narrative is gonna hold relatively close to the source material (odd as that is to say, given the differences between 616 and MCU), which in my mind means the cancer plot. But instead of dying in the sun with the Mangog, she'll die fighting Gorr. Maybe Val will bring her back as a new Valkyrie or something.

    Namor being in Panther 2 isn't a surprise (assuming this is real and what y'all think it is), we've been hearing those rumors for years and it's not a hard conclusion to jump to. Little sad they didn't cast an Asian/American actor for the role, I always figured Namor was Asian coded, but whatever. Atlantis isn't real, Namor can look like whatever, as long as he's vaguely recognizable as Namor. This thread is the first I'm hearing of it, and that image was too fuzzy to make out any details. Maybe it *is* an Asian/American actor and he's just closer to Benedict Wong's skin tone than Namor is colored in the comics. Either way, what skin tone Namor *might* have if he's *actually* in the movie is not even on the list of concerns I have going into BP2, and I question the motivations of anyone who feels different.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  12. #6867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So, yeah, fun discussion.....

    Thought the Thor trailer was fun. Looks like Waititi making another Thor movie. Impressive visuals. Needed more space goats.

    As for the question of which god is gonna be butchered by Gorr (before y'all got distracted with politics), the obvious answer is Jane. I think (?) it's been said that her narrative is gonna hold relatively close to the source material (odd as that is to say, given the differences between 616 and MCU), which in my mind means the cancer plot. But instead of dying in the sun with the Mangog, she'll die fighting Gorr. Maybe Val will bring her back as a new Valkyrie or something.

    Namor being in Panther 2 isn't a surprise (assuming this is real and what y'all think it is), we've been hearing those rumors for years and it's not a hard conclusion to jump to. Little sad they didn't cast an Asian/American actor for the role, I always figured Namor was Asian coded, but whatever. Atlantis isn't real, Namor can look like whatever, as long as he's vaguely recognizable as Namor. This thread is the first I'm hearing of it, and that image was too fuzzy to make out any details. Maybe it *is* an Asian/American actor and he's just closer to Benedict Wong's skin tone than Namor is colored in the comics. Either way, what skin tone Namor *might* have if he's *actually* in the movie is not even on the list of concerns I have going into BP2, and I question the motivations of anyone who feels different.
    it's kinda crazy how Namor became a main antagonist against Panther. I really loved Namor under Hickman's pen, but I hope they don't make him an out and out villain.

    It would have been cool to get a South Asian playing Namor, to get more representation and especially since in Hinduism they also have an Atlantis style myth about a sunken city. But I am really happy seeing Aztec/Mayan being represented.

  13. #6868
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    it's kinda crazy how Namor became a main antagonist against Panther. I really loved Namor under Hickman's pen, but I hope they don't make him an out and out villain.

    It would have been cool to get a South Asian playing Namor, to get more representation and especially since in Hinduism they also have an Atlantis style myth about a sunken city. But I am really happy seeing Aztec/Mayan being represented.
    I guess they pretty much ran through all the major BP villains in the first movie that all they had left was...Achebe, I guess?

    I assume they wanted to use Namor for a king vs king conflict even though now they can't do that without T'Challa. And they probably couldn't use Doom.

    I guess Marvel has no actual Aztec/Mayan heroes. I mean, who is their most prominent Latino hero? Reptil? America Chavez? White Tiger? DC's at least pushing Blue Beetle and Jessica Cruz. They canceled the Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider spinoff because it was a Jeph Loeb show.

    Oh wait, there's Hummingbird, but I guess she falls under the Spider-Man rights.

  14. #6869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Panic View Post
    Bale is such a method actor he's probably out there right now killing gods. And it will all have been for nothing.
    Okay, this legit made me laugh .

    Quote Originally Posted by Galerion View Post
    I don't get this thinking. Magneto is one of the most beloved parts of the X-franchise and even comics as a whole and he is that way because he is a flawed person who has the ability to do good but also do something bad. That is what makes him so a good character. Everybody messes up in their life and makes the wrong decisions. How you deal with that and how you can make up for it now that is an interesting story to tell. Not everybody can or should be like Captain America. As a matter of fact most people in the MCU are not. Pretty much everybody has skeletons in their closet.

    Wanda has immense potential to do good but also do bad. This has been shown basically since her introduction and now there are digging deeper into it now that she is fully aware of who she is and what she is really capable of doing.
    The problem is how boring MoM Wanda is written, I dunno much about her character before this movie since I didn't watching anything MCU related with her, but watching it wouldn't make me a fan, or even being mildly interested in her.

    Then there's the sexist nonsense about "muh kids" way she's written, that does her no favors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingdom X View Post
    I just really hope itís not ďletís pit the two secret advanced POC Nations against each other.Ē
    Well, Feige does like 2000's comics, if that includes 2010's, Namor and T'Challa were at war at some point, so yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Yeah, unless they heavily nerf Namor or contrive some silly solution to beating him, I'm having a hard time buying anyone in the next movie being able to take Namor down.
    With how MCU can randomly nerf and buff characters, it could go either way with Namor really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I guess they pretty much ran through all the major BP villains in the first movie that all they had left was...Achebe, I guess?
    It's so questionable BP's movie would use his major villains that early, and kill them off too, it'd make sense if it was planned to be an one off movie, but being part of a franchise, that's hilariously short sighted.

    Oh wait, there's Hummingbird, but I guess she falls under the Spider-Man rights.
    Sony movie about Hummingbird when? .
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    We all know that BND was a collective mid-life crisis from Marvel back then

  15. #6870
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    Quote Originally Posted by KurtW95 View Post
    MCU producers who think they know better than the comic book creators from over 50 years ago, who made these characters lasting in the first place, never cease to amaze me with their arrogance.
    Race swapping is bullshit no matter which way it goes. Imagine the massive coniption if Blade or Storm had a white actor cast. And Marvel has plenty of diverse characters they can produce content with.

    Jon Huertas of Castle, Generation Kill, etc...has made no secret of wanting to play White Tiger...even making his own fan film. So why not run with it...set up a movie or series that introduces Hectoe Ayala...and Ava...and do 2-3 with him and then hand off.

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