Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[Frontier]

I don't think they really tried to make Carol the face of the franchise. They pretty much said the same thing about every new character they introduced around that time, i.e. "This is the new Iron Man, etc." Carol was clearly meant to be important moving forward but that's not the same thing. She'd be closer to Thor than Tony.

But unlike Thor she never had the consistency of appearance or story (and I say this acknowledging how they would consistently reinvent Thor's personality when it suited the movie).

And Carol makes no sense to appear in any of those movies.

Well, I think you could fit her into Eternals and L&T at least.

[80sbaby]

Feige did push her pretty hard as the "most powerful character we've ever introduced" and make it seem like she was the future leader of the Avengers.

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/156...oes-in-the-mcu

Yes, she was the most powerful at that time. And, as I said, he said the same thing about her being the "new face" as he said regarding Strange and T'Challa. I believe gad Chadwick not passed, we definitely would have seen him pushed. And we'd probably have an Ultimates team replacing the Avengers.

But unlike Thor she never had the consistency of appearance or story (and I say this acknowledging how they would consistently reinvent Thor's personality when it suited the movie).

Well, I think you could fit her into Eternals and L&T at least.

I mean as far as her placement on a team. She wasn't set up to be the leader, just the powerhouse member.

[Orbus]

The Wanda disaster is related to this in a way. They never expected her to become as popular as she became with "WandaVision," which is why by the time she broke out, they'd already committed to turning her into a psycho villain. Imagine if they just abandoned their plans about who should be the face of the franchise and just concentrated on having many different types of female heroes in the mix, instead of putting so much pressure on a few characters.

Do people really believe they intend to to leave Wanda like she is. She's almost certainly going to return and overcome the effects of the Darkhold.

They don't want to change plans hence refusing to recast Kang.

I've not been following the Jonathan Majors allegations but I think it would be a bad look to fire him if it turns out he's innocent of the crimes he's accused of especially as people were hyped by his performance in both Loki and Quantumania. I think it's fair to wait and see how that whole situation plays out before recasting him.

[gurkle]

Do people really believe they intend to to leave Wanda like she is. She's almost certainly going to return and overcome the effects of the Darkhold.

Nobody thinks they intended to leave her that way (though with all the projects they're cancelling they might accidentally leave her that way for a long time), but they shouldn't have done it in the first place. A franchise that doesn't have a lot of female heroes turned one of its longest-running female Avengers into a psycho villain for no better reason than there was a comics story a bit like that in the mid-2000s. Now they can't use her in anything until they've gone through a half-assed redemption arc.

That she became arguably their most popular female character after they had already committed to turning her into a psycho villain just speaks to how they now have problems anticipating audience reaction. There was a similar problem with them thinking Quantumania was going to be a hit and make audiences excited for Kang.

[Frontier]

Yes, she was the most powerful at that time. And, as I said, he said the same thing about her being the "new face" as he said regarding Strange and T'Challa. I believe gad Chadwick not passed, we definitely would have seen him pushed. And we'd probably have an Ultimates team replacing the Avengers.

Losing Chadwick and T'Challa screwed a lot of things.

I mean as far as her placement on a team. She wasn't set up to be the leader, just the powerhouse member.

Though Carol does have some leadership experience (at least in the comics).

[Kingdom X]

Valkeryie makes a guest appearance. Not sure how much screen time she gets. It would be fantastic if more different demographics supported these movies. I'm pretty disappointed at the LGBTQ for not showing more support for The Flash. It was a decent movie.

So a large percentage of the community was supposed to come out and support a movie based on a quick cameo that was not at all advertised… make it make sense. Also WHY would the community show up for the Flash? Because Ezra Miller was the lead? The person caught on camera being violent with multiple allegations surrounding them.

And she basically gets what she wanted with no consequences or guilt because of Loki's sacrifice, even though she's the one who made a mess of everything. Even if HWR had it coming and she had a really messed up backstory, her blatant disregard for her own accountability/responsibility was glaring.

I think Sylvie suffered from having a backstory that was mostly told to us and not shown. I had honestly forget some of Sylvie’s deal until she mentioned that growing up in apocalypses bit. It is a REALLY tragic backstory but if you don’t get the audience to invest in it emotionally, then people are gonna quickly get tired of your character acting poorly over and over again.

I also think the show missed such a huge opportunity by not returning Sylvie to her version of a Asgard when everyone went back to their original timeline in Ep 5.

[Confuzzled]

In what way did Tony set up Carol to be the guiding force of the MCU?
They barely interacted in Endgame.
And it's great how people keep pretending the pandemic isn't a thing that happened, and both pushed back projects and reshuffled the MCU's slate.

If it were not pandemic the Marvels would've been out last year, and Carol's latest film appearances would've been Shang-Chi, so the only year she'd have been absent in is 2020, they didn't bench Carol for 4 years, these things were literally out of their control.

And Carol makes no sense to appear in any of those movies.

I misremembered the line in the scene where Tony is arguing with Steve, thinking he told Carol, "We need you, you're the future! when in fact he said "We need you, you're new blood!". But that only emphasizes my point that Marvel shouldn't have left Carol on the shelf for so long, making her lose her 'newness', in a different way than I intended.

Also Endgame did setup Carol as the future of the MCU, especially with the parodied 'Girls Get It Done!' sequence and her bells and whistles entry into the big final act fight.

And yes, the pandemic took off 1.5 years but that leaves 3 years which is still a significant gap for someone who 'was needed' especially because she was 'new'. Shang-Chi and Ms. Marvel cameos don't even count. Tony's appearances in other character's films like Civil War and Homecoming were way bigger than those.

We are only now getting to know MCU Carol after close to 5 years of her debut, which is just poor planning regardless of the pandemic.

[Confuzzled]

Do people really believe they intend to to leave Wanda like she is. She's almost certainly going to return and overcome the effects of the Darkhold.

Regardless, I think everyone can agree that the way she was used in Multiverse of Madness wasn't the best way to leverage all the popularity she gained due to Wandavision, especially as the movie team admitted they didn't even watch the show.

Now not only was her last appearance unflattering to put it lightly but she is stuck in limbo like Carol was previously.

[StickMin]

I misremembered the line in the scene where Tony is arguing with Steve, thinking he told Carol, "We need you, you're the future! when in fact he said "We need you, you're new blood!". But that only emphasizes my point that Marvel shouldn't have left Carol on the shelf for so long, making her lose her 'newness', in a different way than I intended.

Also Endgame did setup Carol as the future of the MCU, especially with the parodied 'Girls Get It Done!' sequence and her bells and whistles entry into the big final act fight.

And yes, the pandemic took off 1.5 years but that leaves 3 years which is still a significant gap for someone who 'was needed' especially because she was 'new'. Shang-Chi and Ms. Marvel cameos don't even count. Tony's appearances in other character's films like Civil War and Homecoming were way bigger than those.

We are only now getting to know MCU Carol after close to 5 years of her debut, which is just poor planning regardless of the pandemic.

One statement is in no way set up for Carol to be the new fave of the MCU, you're reaching for that point, all Endgame did was set up Carol as one of the new generation of heroes in the MCU but in no way set her up to be the face of the franchise.

And you're still ignoring the pandemic, we would've had this movie last year if it didn't push things back and reshuffled the slate, and 3 years isn't a big gap, there's three years in between the first and second Guardians, the first two Captain America's, Iron Man 2 and 3, Ant-Man and Ant-Man and the Wasp hell there's four years in between The Dark World and Ragnarok.
The only MCU movies that consistently have a short 2 year gap between them is Spider-Man, and that's because it's not solely made by Marvel Studios, so it had it not been for external factors Marvel had no control over the time between Captain Marvel and The Marvels would've been the standard wait all the other movies had.

And no we're not just getting to know Carol, we got to know her in her first movie, that didn't stop existing as it introduction to her character.

[skyvolt2000]

I like the way you thing and want to subscribe to your new letter.

Seriously...I have viewed the MCU as an ensemble. No one character is more important than any others to the overall success. Yes there are personal favorites but like you said no one should be the Face of The MCU.

Correct you don't want your franchise to be held hostage by one person.

See the other company. While the guy in the Batsuit is fine. Everyone else including the country boy from Smallville and Amazon princess and guys with green rings got screwed over.

For all the legit gripes about Marvel-nobody can say they didn't diversify the movies onscreen and offscreen.

Antman still got 3 movies. A guy that can't have a book make issue 7 had 3 movies. Wonder Woman is struggling to sniff a 3rd. In no universe should that be happening.

[Gaastra]

So a large percentage of the community was supposed to come out and support a movie based on a quick cameo that was not at all advertised…

Valkeryie was in tv spots actually. They did spoil her in the film in ads.

[Thor-Ul]

Correct you don't want your franchise to be held hostage by one person.

See the other company. While the guy in the Batsuit is fine. Everyone else including the country boy from Smallville and Amazon princess and guys with green rings got screwed over.

For all the legit gripes about Marvel-nobody can say they didn't diversify the movies onscreen and offscreen.

Antman still got 3 movies. A guy that can't have a book make issue 7 had 3 movies. Wonder Woman is struggling to sniff a 3rd. In no universe should that be happening.

That should be an indicator than movie audience and comics audience are not the same. Never had been.

However I ahve to said that is pretty difficult to deny the need of a Face. Occidental narratives, specially cinematographic stories, are done always with a main protagonist, even coral ones who are the guide for such stories. It is part of an individualist way of understand the world. In a macro tale as the MCU, Iron Man was the original guide. After his demise, the idea was to Spider-man to be the guide, but Sony ruined the chance for that and now the MCU is headless, without a clear guide in such travel. Who is taking our hand now in this travel?

[Confuzzled]

One statement is in no way set up for Carol to be the new fave of the MCU, you're reaching for that point, all Endgame did was set up Carol as one of the new generation of heroes in the MCU but in no way set her up to be the face of the franchise.

And you're still ignoring the pandemic, we would've had this movie last year if it didn't push things back and reshuffled the slate, and 3 years isn't a big gap, there's three years in between the first and second Guardians, the first two Captain America's, Iron Man 2 and 3, Ant-Man and Ant-Man and the Wasp hell there's four years in between The Dark World and Ragnarok.
The only MCU movies that consistently have a short 2 year gap between them is Spider-Man, and that's because it's not solely made by Marvel Studios, so it had it not been for external factors Marvel had no control over the time between Captain Marvel and The Marvels would've been the standard wait all the other movies had.

And no we're not just getting to know Carol, we got to know her in her first movie, that didn't stop existing as it introduction to her character.

The hero who rescued Tony from deep space, the hero who Tony said was much needed as she was new blood, the hero who singlehandedly turned the tide around in the climactic fight, the only one who could hold her own physically against Thanos until he had to reach for an Infinity Stone, the one leading the "girls squad". She was at least one of the 3 singled out as the next big trio (the other two being T'Challa and Peter as the 3 of them were the ones grabbing the Gauntlet and running around in the Endgame battle).

You are overexaggerating the effects of the pandemic because Peter got another movie just two years later despite having his followup movie come out immediately after Endgame. Even Black Panther got a sequel before Captain Marvel despite Chadwick Boseman's shocking passing. Meanwhile for years, characters just kept talking about Carol, much of which was about her not being there. How is that in any way supposed to sustain interest in a character?

[Jackraow21]

Personally I think Cpt Marvel suffers from Superman syndrome. She's too powerful, so can only fight aliens in space. Makes her solo adventures a bit boring, unless you're into all the cosmic stuff.

[Confuzzled]

Personally I think Cpt Marvel suffers from Superman syndrome. She's too powerful, so can only fight aliens in space. Makes her solo adventures a bit boring, unless you're into all the cosmic stuff.

Which was all the more reason to make her appear in other people's movies before her sequel so that she could build camaraderie with them and keep building popularity among audiences