Marvel Cinematic Universe Part II

[9th.]

You're way too focused on what's written on page when racial coding can, and usually is, done through visual medium.




It's true that Namor isn't actually, canonically asian, but the fact that he looks asian enough that comics have actually acknowledged that (even if in racist ways :x) is where the coding impression comes from.

Here's Namor being called ''squinty'' because of his asian-like eyes, for example:



Maybe you don't see it, but lots of people have. There is a reason why asian fancastings for him were so popular. In fact, the asian reading of Namor is so strong even among creators that Greg Pak actually created an AU version of Namor called Namor Miyamoto for his X-Treme X-Men comic.

I grew up thinking Namor was Asian, he never looked like a white man to me and I never ever read his comics.

[Ascended]

How is Sub-Mariner Asian-coded?
What does that even mean?

You seem rather twisted up about this.

I can't tell if you're being serious about not knowing what coding is or not. Just in case you are; coding is a sociological term (or at least those are the classes where I first heard it) which in this context refers to when a character's fictional heritage is used as a proxy for a real one. Best superhero example I can think of right now is DC's Martian Manhunter, who in some ways was written as being Black coded, even before the John Jones identity started being drawn as Black. No, J'onn isn't Black. But there are elements in his character that, especially when juxtaposed against the rest of the (white) League, cover very similar ground.

Coding isn't about actually belonging to the group in question.

I actually typed this out while reading the comic. I am very sure about what I just typed to you.

I don't doubt it, and I appreciate that you took the time to check the material. But the point you're making has nothing to do with what I said. I didn't say Namor *was* Asian, I said I always got a Asian coding feel from him; his facial features and the Imperial trappings always felt akin to old feudal rulers, to me. And apparently other people have picked up the same things, which I didn't know until this conversation. If you never got that impression, that's fine. Literary analysis, including the sociological elements, is often a "eye of the beholder" thing. Not always, but often enough.

Though the fact that Namor was able to disguise himself as Japanese (even in a racist WWII comic) seems to lend weight to my reading of the material. I could put on a Japanese uniform but nobody is gonna buy me as being Japanese.

And obviously there's a ton of different cultures, groups, etc., on that landmass. F*cking obviously. But "Asian coded" is what it's called.

She-Hulk CGI Upgraded On Disney+ Trailer

Nice. Didn't some of us say that the cgi was likely still being worked on?

It'll look fine by the time of release. Probably not full blown movie good, but good enough for what it is.

I still don't get why they went the cgi route rather than practical effects but whatever. Maybe cgi is faster and/or cheaper now than some body paint and gym sessions?

[MindofShadow]

I still don't get why they went the cgi route rather than practical effects but whatever. Maybe cgi is faster and/or cheaper now than some body paint and gym sessions?

bruh, you ain't gym sessioning to She-hulk size haha

[Drops Of Venus]

Nice. Didn't some of us say that the cgi was likely still being worked on?

It'll look fine by the time of release. Probably not full blown movie good, but good enough for what it is.

I still don't get why they went the cgi route rather than practical effects but whatever. Maybe cgi is faster and/or cheaper now than some body paint and gym sessions?

Practical effects would mean getting a big, tall, bodybuilder type actress to look small in certain scenes with camera work/angles, which I guess it's not impossible, but it would still limit what they can do. For one, they would probably need to cover her body a lot, because you can't have regular human Jennifer Walters with massive She-Hulk arms and legs showing. It would kinda diminish the point of her physical transformation. It would also greatly limit their casting options; Tatiana Maslany would've never been cast in the first place because she is tiny and could never realistically look how She-Hulk is supposed to, no matter how hard she works out.

One option would be to use the same special effects trick they used for Chris Evans on Captain America 1 where they put his face on a skinny body, but that would already be leaving the practical effects territory. I guess ultimately they went with CGI because it's the default option for a Hulk in the MCU. They have the Hulk on the show and he's CGI, so making her NOT CGI would make her stand out in a way that could raise some questions from the audience. ''Why don't they look alike if they're both Hulks?'' I think that would be specially glaring if they're setting her up to appear in the movies in the future and you're seeing the difference between her and Bruce on a big screen. This way, at least they are consistent on how Hulks and other gamma-related characters are depicted.

[Frontier]

I can never understand why people were expecting practical effects for She-Hulk.

Yeah, she looks more "human" than Hulk but she's still meant to be far taller than any normal human woman and capable of feats that you could only really pull off with someone in CG. She's meant to look like an inhuman green goddess next to normal people.

[Ascended]

I figured they'd use practical effects because I didn't think they could swing a fully cgi main character. We all know these shows have big budgets, and the cgi we've seen in previous shows has usually been decent....but there's a big difference between a secondary character and the main, title character. I simply didn't think they would try to pull it off.

Some versions of Jenn are way too bulky for an actress to achieve in the gym, but other times Jenn has a more athletic look that an actress *could* pull off. I figured between that and some clever camera tricks to make her look bigger and a smart wardrobe selection (and yes some cgi to round things off) it would be the more reasonable expectation.

Obviously I was wrong, and like I said earlier in the thread I expect them to keep polishing the cgi until the show hits. But given the complaints about the trailer I don't think I was all that outta line to think that making the main character a fully cgi creation was possibly stretching themselves too thin.

[Starrius]

I grew up thinking Namor was Asian, he never looked like a white man to me and I never ever read his comics.

Why Asian?

What do you mean by Asian?

There are many kinds of Asian for there are over 50 countries in Asia. Many of the Middle Eastern countries like Arabia and Israel are in Asia. The Caucasus is in Asia.


Why does one have to get the impression of him being Asian?

What about the impression that he is a person that is a weird looking humanoid like a Vulcan on Star Trek?

I never got the impression of being Asian in any way.


Him pretending to be Asian doesn't even make a point if you consider that that there is history of full European people playing Asian characters like people that played Charlie Chan and Mr. Moto.


White and black races are social constructs without any scientific basis. They are not even used in genetics nor anthropology. They're actually outdated terms that were created out of ignorance of how diverse we human beings are. The racial terms Caucasoid, Mongoloid, and Negroid are outdated too. It's ironic that the term, Caucasian has been used as a term for white even though the Caucasus is in Asia.


There are different views of what white really means. There is disagreement about Jews being white. There has been history of people not being English not being viewed as being white. European is not the same as white and African is not the same as black.

[Force de Phenix]

I grew up thinking Namor was Asian, he never looked like a white man to me and I never ever read his comics.

I always thought he was an elf since he had pointy ears and wings on his feet. He looks like a male Björk. That said, I don't care who plays him.

[Frontier]

I figured they'd use practical effects because I didn't think they could swing a fully cgi main character. We all know these shows have big budgets, and the cgi we've seen in previous shows has usually been decent....but there's a big difference between a secondary character and the main, title character. I simply didn't think they would try to pull it off.

Some versions of Jenn are way too bulky for an actress to achieve in the gym, but other times Jenn has a more athletic look that an actress *could* pull off. I figured between that and some clever camera tricks to make her look bigger and a smart wardrobe selection (and yes some cgi to round things off) it would be the more reasonable expectation.

Obviously I was wrong, and like I said earlier in the thread I expect them to keep polishing the cgi until the show hits. But given the complaints about the trailer I don't think I was all that outta line to think that making the main character a fully cgi creation was possibly stretching themselves too thin.

Well, she'd probably turn CG anyways for action scenes .

[Ravin' Ray]

Nice. Didn't some of us say that the cgi was likely still being worked on?

It'll look fine by the time of release. Probably not full blown movie good, but good enough for what it is.

There's also the possibility that the YouTube video had greater compression which lead to more visual artifices than the Disney+ video. As I mentioned in the She-Hulk thread, the thedirect.com article the video referenced didn't do itself a favor by saving the screencaps in lossy JPEG format rather than lossless PNG format so even the Disney+ screencaps would have suffered from a lossy compression.

[Ascended]

Well, she'd probably turn CG anyways for action scenes .

Without doubt. I didn't expect the show to be 100% practical effects, that simply isn't practical! Even Hawkeye had a lot of cg in it, and nobody there has any powers!

There's also the possibility that the YouTube video had greater compression which lead to more visual artifices than the Disney+ video. As I mentioned in the She-Hulk thread, the thedirect.com article the video referenced didn't do itself a favor by saving the screencaps in lossy JPEG format rather than lossless PNG format so even the Disney+ screencaps would have suffered from a lossy compression.

Oh that's entirely possible. I hadn't considered that end of it.

[Frontier]

Without doubt. I didn't expect the show to be 100% practical effects, that simply isn't practical! Even Hawkeye had a lot of cg in it, and nobody there has any powers!

I think it was a Stephen Amell interview I read where I found out how little actual arrows are shot in live-action .

[Starrius]

I always thought he was an elf since he had pointy ears and wings on his feet. He looks like a male Björk. That said, I don't care who plays him.

Bjork is a perfect example of how certain types of Europeans can share similar facial traits with East Asians.

There are other Scandinavians with similar features. Some Scandinavians can look like they could be part East Asian even though they are not. I know a Norwegian woman that looks like she could be part East Asian. Not all Scandinavian women look Germanic.

There are people in Scandinavia known as the Sami that look like they could be of East Asian ancestry.

You can see those same features in some Eastern Europeans.

There is a bit of diversity among Europeans and Asians.

All Europeans have highly ancient Asian ancestry.


There are Europeans that look like they could be part East Asian.
There are East Asians that look like they could be part European like the Ainu in Japan.

[Maestro 216]

There was going to be an eternals tie-in in Moon Knight, but the director rejected it. You know the studio would have forced him to include it had the Eternals been a success. They’ve definitely gone back to the drawing board to see if they can salvage any of those characters or concepts.

Inhumans 2: Electric Boogaloo with their failed push.

[Ascended]

I think it was a Stephen Amell interview I read where I found out how little actual arrows are shot in live-action .

So few!

What surprises *me* is that so many people just assumed the show could swing a convincing cgi main character. I mean, I got faith in the MCU, but there's a reason that major, recurring characters in sci-fi like Star Trek are done with makeup and practical effects; cgi is friggin expensive, especially on a tv budget. Even a Disney+ one.